Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[pawnman]

7 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Talent market place question. WTF is that? Never heard of it.

You've never done the MyVector thing where you see all the avaliable jobs for your rank and AFSC?

It's what replaced the old ADP.

Edited March 9, 2022 by pawnman

[Guardian]

You've never done the MyVector thing where you see all the avaliable jobs foe your rank and AFSC?
It's what replaced the old ADP.

Ah. Gotcha. Nope I haven’t.

[FLEA]

3 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Asked about what are they doing to take additional duties off pilots backs (question about being and RA and instructor pilot). He didn’t say if it was on their radar prior to the question but did say it is now. Went into additional duties being downgraded. But then went into why it’s important to the AF works for the AF. And how if as an RA you know how the AFdoes money that it will be extremely important for you. So he side stepped the question kinda. And said that RA’s learn how the AF’s money works (debatable general. Agree to disagree). “The more you learn about money, the better off you will be in your Air Force Career.”

He did say they are making a push for admin people in the squadrons.

Then the moderator spoke up in favor of additional duties.

I mean..... I see the point here. I hate additional duties more than any other. But the AF knows it grabs its future commanders and GO's from the pilot ranks. Before you command a squadron you've hopefully hopped a few shops in a squadron and understand their basic mechanisms that make them work. Before you lead a group, you hopefully understand the spending and resource allocation. Goes on.... but what he's basically getting at is you are learning the foundations that the government operates on. 

The problem is...... only 10% of pilots are going to command. For the other 90% of pilots this a waste of time and its frankly exhausting. At the same time, we as a pilot union, get peeved when the AF crops its future leaders too early in their career and funnels them into better jobs. So I don't really have a good solution on this one either. 

5 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Talent market place question. WTF is that? Never heard of it.

Replace the Airman Development Plan for finding and allocating assignments. You now bid on a assignments and commanders of those assignments can bid on you. Then some algorithm assigns you based on bids and needs of the Air Force. 

[Guardian]

He just spent a lot of time talking about how do we lower washout rate from pilot training. And then threw a little caveat about how they want to make sure that the pilots are good.

Seemed more important to him to lower the washout rate based on total amount of time spent on that in his answer.

[Guardian]

Asked how he was going to get money and less additional duties. He responded that we aren’t aviators that are officers. We are officers that are aviators. Then went on to talk about officer ship. And how being an officer is more important than being an aviator but then discussed how we have to be as good of pilots as possible.

So I like the guy and feel for him but that was a tough one for him to answer. He spoke about things that don’t equal each other. He wants pilots to be the best officers they can be by having additional duties and leadership responsibilities while being the best absolute aviator and warfighter possible. For most, those things can’t happen at the same time.

[Guardian]

Worth the watch. A little over an hour long.

Bottom line no 22 bonus yet till an appropriations bill is approved potential large bonus structure change in 23 (and they want people who sign the 22 or earlier to be able to sign on the 23 bonus).

No change likely in additional duties, hired additional squadron help, or max amount in money for 22.

[FLEA]

26 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Asked how he was going to get money and less additional duties. He responded that we aren’t aviators that are officers. We are officers that are aviators. Then went on to talk about officer ship. And how being an officer is more important than being an aviator but then discussed how we have to be as good of pilots as possible.

So I like the guy and feel for him but that was a tough one for him to answer. He spoke about things that don’t equal each other. He wants pilots to be the best officers they can be by having additional duties and leadership responsibilities while being the best absolute aviator and warfighter possible. For most, those things can’t happen at the same time.

Yeah, the problem is really difficult to solve unless there are some fundamental changes to the way the AF recruits, mentors and manages pilot manpower.

I honestly thing we need a holistic look at force structure in general, starting with the officer/enlisted paradigm. Its something we grabbed from 17th century warfare and very little has been done to advance it.  Not saying I have the ideas or the solutions but that's the place I would start. 

[Guardian]

I’m still hung up on his attitude is every officer should desire to run the Air Force and be the best pilot while taking less money and doing additional work. That’s a tough one.

[pawnman]

59 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Asked about what are they doing to take additional duties off pilots backs (question about being and RA and instructor pilot). He didn’t say if it was on their radar prior to the question but did say it is now. Went into additional duties being downgraded. But then went into why it’s important to the AF works for the AF. And how if as an RA you know how the AFdoes money that it will be extremely important for you. So he side stepped the question kinda. And said that RA’s learn how the AF’s money works (debatable general. Agree to disagree). “The more you learn about money, the better off you will be in your Air Force Career.”

He did say they are making a push for admin people in the squadrons.

Then the moderator spoke up in favor of additional duties.

I had to do RA stuff for a while. I learned very little about budgeting and a whole lot about what a pain DTS and GPC programs are to manage. 

[QAZqaz]

11 minutes ago, Guardian said:

I’m still hung up on his attitude is every officer should desire to run the Air Force and be the best pilot while taking less money and doing additional work. That’s a tough one.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by QAZqaz

[HeloDude]

If big blue hasn’t gotten it by now, they’re never going to get it.

Stay in or get out…just do what’s best for you and your family and don’t expect a whole lot of positive changes.

[CaptainMorgan]

If you haven’t gotten it by now, you’re never going to get it.
Stay in…just do what’s best for Big Blue and expect a whole lot of positive changes…Is what a General would say!

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[HuskyPilot]

Funny, they let me separate without ever offering me a bonus.  As for the pilot vs officer first.  My ROTC commitment was 4 years.  My UPT commitment was 10 years.  So which one was keeping me on the hook for the last 2/3 of my career?  And they are offended that (many) pilots see themselves as a pilot first. For me, the commission was just a means to an end.

[ClearedHot]

On 8/25/2021 at 5:37 PM, di1630 said:

~1 month to go:

Fixed wing overall take rate: 32%

11F: 24%
11B: 31%
11M: 29%

Ouch

Do you know the break even point, back when Orville, Wilbur and myself were offered the bonus they needed 64% to break even.

On 9/1/2021 at 6:14 AM, Chuck17 said:

Get ready for this kinda take rate being used as justification to kill the bonus altogether… I give it one more FY, tops. 

Makes a perfect compliment to the $300+B in cuts coming to the Pentagon… 

Rough roads ahead. 

Chuck

Highly doubtful at this point.  Given the Russia/Ukraine situation and the potential for the house to flip I doubt we will see a substantial decrease int he Defense Budget.

[Hunter Rose]

9 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Do you know the break even point, back when Orville, Wilbur and myself were offered the bonus they needed 64% to break even.

The target is still 65% to maintain status quo manning. Big Air Force hasn't made that in years...probably approaching a decade now.

[Hunter Rose]

I'm personally hoping there's a two year bonus option and I can finish my career as a line IP in the FTU.

[Swizzle]

1 hour ago, Hunter Rose said:

The target is still 65% to maintain status quo manning. Big Air Force hasn't made that in years...probably approaching a decade now.

AF is being forced by circumstances to change their offering(s)/options, let's see the bureaucracy turn on a dime now with whatever options remain (ex. payment timing, contract length, amounts [under $35k that is]) and the flexibility/options AF grants to prospective 'takers'. Not much else they can get creative with...new buzzwords perhaps...

They haven't explored taker-directed payouts, aka taker decides where/to whom the $ goes

[CaptainMorgan]

AF is being forced by circumstances to change their offering(s)/options, let's see the bureaucracy turn on a dime now with whatever options remain (ex. payment timing, contract length, amounts [under $35k that is]) and the flexibility/options AF grants to prospective 'takers'. Not much else they can get creative with...new buzzwords perhaps...
They haven't explored taker-directed payouts, aka taker decides where/to whom the $ goes

Why would the taker want to send the $ to anyone but themself?


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[Guardian]

I don’t get the limited to 35k argument. Thought congress approved them for 48 when they asked for 60.

[CaptainMorgan]

I don’t get the limited to 35k argument. Thought congress approved them for 48 when they asked for 60.

Nope


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[jazzdude]

I don’t get the limited to 35k argument. Thought congress approved them for 48 when they asked for 60.

RAND recommended 48-60k, AF asked for 48k, Congress approved 35k

[Guardian]

Both house and senate have passed the appropriations bill and sent to Biden for signature in the last few days.

[Bigred]

On 3/9/2022 at 6:32 PM, Guardian said:

Bonus. “It’s essential”.

AD program. Capped at 35k per year by law (he claimed). O5 and below. Tiers. And required after pilot commitment complete.

2022 doesn’t have an appropriations bill yet or CR. So no bonus program yet.

The 35k cap is written into law, it was passed as part of title 37 section 334.

 

As to why the AF doesn’t have a program out yet, who knows. A quick Google shows that the Marines already have a program out and the Navy’s is about to be released. 

[di1630]

35K, 3-5-9 yr contract options. Should be out next week.

Unsure on AFSC specifics or details.

Don’t quote me.

[Standby]

20 minutes ago, di1630 said:

35K, 3-5-9 yr contract options. Should be out next week.

Unsure on AFSC specifics or details.

Don’t quote me.
 

Quoted to establish your rumor as gospel.