Day late and a couple hundred thousand short...

Increases in bonuses is becoming a more possible reality; There's an official proposition to increase RPA (and possible manned pilot) retention pay to $35K/year.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/08/10/air-force-favors-big-boost-in-retention-bonuses-for-pilots.html

$35K was already approved for RPA by law last year; Air Force chose to offer 25 instead.

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On 7/13/2016 at 3:31 PM, neontico said:

Looks like the $60k found its way back into the text.  Now off to potus for sig:

 

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/s2943/text/eah

Slightly off topic, but it looks like section 603 is prohibiting the flat per diem rate (75%) after 30 days? Hopefully that's the case and it stays in there.

Is it me or are these gimmicks to keep people in getting more and more ridiculous? 

https://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2016/08/09/432000-bonus-air-force-may-nearly-double-fighter-pilot-retention-pay/88464154/

Shouldn't that be a sign that there's something inherently wrong with the way you run the Air Force if it takes $432K to keep somebody flying? I wish they'd address the reasons people choose to leave instead of just blaming the airlines. Bonuses are just a Band-Aid fix to some deeper problems which leadership seems to just want to ignore. Thoughts?

Considering it should be at least $35K/yr just to have kept up with inflation, $48K/yr is not out of line.

15 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Considering it should be at least $35K/yr just to have kept up with inflation, $48K/yr is not out of line.

Should be $60K. I've heard that number a lot recently and that is what was in the House version of the NDAA. $60K says they mean business and are trying. $48K just doesn't sound or look as good after hearing $60K for a while. It's not about the money but this is a strategic error if it ends up being anything but $60K.

Should be $60K. I've heard that number a lot recently and that is what was in the House version of the NDAA. $60K says they mean business and are trying. $48K just doesn't sound or look as good after hearing $60K for a while. It's not about the money but this is a strategic error if it ends up being anything but $60K.

If you've read my other posts in this topic...you'd realize I've been saying $60K/yr is what HAF/A3 knows they need to spend.

18 hours ago, SnapLock said:

Should be $60K. I've heard that number a lot recently and that is what was in the House version of the NDAA. $60K says they mean business and are trying. $48K just doesn't sound or look as good after hearing $60K for a while. It's not about the money but this is a strategic error if it ends up being anything but $60K.

It would definitely be an insult to pursue the ability to offer $60K, then only offer $48K this year.  Probably not the move you want to make if your goal is retaining pilots.

Would the extra $12K make that much difference in the number of takers?  Probably not.  But offering less than the amount the Air Force asked congress for certainly sends the message that the Air Force isn't actually serious about fixing this problem yet.

It would definitely be an insult to pursue the ability to offer $60K, then only offer $48K this year.  Probably not the move you want to make if your goal is retaining pilots.

Would the extra $12K make that much difference in the number of takers?  Probably not.  But offering less than the amount the Air Force asked congress for certainly sends the message that the Air Force isn't actually serious about fixing this problem yet.

The Air Force needs to get serious. All the remarks to the media have been about the "fighter pilot shortage," while disregarding the rest of the AF. Manning in the mobility world may look OK to the bean counters at AFPC, but TACC has an insatiable appetite and my "overmanned" squadron struggles to pay the bill. What should be really worrying to the brass is the shift in attitudes (that I have seen) in younger pilots. While going through FTU for requal, most of the IPs I spoke with were 2nd assignment types (which shouldn't happen, IMHO). None indicated any desire to stay; many had hopes/delusions that they could palace chase with 4-5 years left on their ADSCs.

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1 hour ago, ihtfp06 said:

The Air Force needs to get serious. All the remarks to the media have been about the "fighter pilot shortage," while disregarding the rest of the AF. Manning in the mobility world may look OK to the bean counters at AFPC, but TACC has an insatiable appetite and my "overmanned" squadron struggles to pay the bill. What should be really worrying to the brass is the shift in attitudes (that I have seen) in younger pilots. While going through FTU for requal, most of the IPs I spoke with were 2nd assignment types (which shouldn't happen, IMHO). None indicated any desire to stay; many had hopes/delusions that they could palace chase with 4-5 years left on their ADSCs.

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Our FTU is losing these pilots (and WSOs as well) at a pretty steady clip.  Most of them are second-assignment, with the occasional Lt Col on the sunset tour.  There are very few of the instructors who plan to stick it out until twenty years, including one or two who have 7-day opted IDE in-residence because they don't want the additional service commitment.

16 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

The Air Force needs to get serious. All the remarks to the media have been about the "fighter pilot shortage," while disregarding the rest of the AF. Manning in the mobility world may look OK to the bean counters at AFPC, but TACC has an insatiable appetite and my "overmanned" squadron struggles to pay the bill. What should be really worrying to the brass is the shift in attitudes (that I have seen) in younger pilots. While going through FTU for requal, most of the IPs I spoke with were 2nd assignment types (which shouldn't happen, IMHO). None indicated any desire to stay; many had hopes/delusions that they could palace chase with 4-5 years left on their ADSCs.

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Altus seems to be full of guys just waiting on their Palace Chase to be approved. It's not better in any of the operational squadrons just about every LT all the way to most of the leadership has gotten their ATPS. Few of my peers are interested in staying in (with or without the airlines hiring), most conversations revolve around airlines or other jobs on the outside even though it's many years off. The mentality is not good and it's going to take more than money to overcome one that's developed over almost a decade. The biggest double edge sword of the 10 year commitment is the Air Force gets to keep people for 10 years but by the time that times up people have had a long time to figure out what they want. 

Exactly. And because SAF/PC is refusing to approve almost all Palace Chase Apps outside of 6 months, many guys I know are saying screw the Guard/Reserves, I am done with this garbage all together. If they would start being reasonable with PC approvals, guys would stay till retirement in the ARC, instead we lose them forever.

On May 17, 2016 at 9:20 AM, General Chang said:

Ok, let's all take a deep breath and take the emotion down a notch.  Big picture...HAF has bigger fish to fry than keeping pilots on the right side of the happy meter.  Top of the list: finding $$ to recapitalize our fleet.  We have tools to (short term) solve a potential pilot shortfall and (long term) ensure it doesn't happen again.  No hesitation will occur if we cross the red line.  Pilot satisfaction is simply not at the top of the list right now with tools like stop loss, expanded commitments, and (good possibility) expanded bonus options available.

Hate the messenger all you want...fair warning: heed the message.

https://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/10/us/us-air-force-pilot-shortage/

https://video.foxnews.com/v/5079490464001/air-force-facing-massive-fighter-pilot-shortage/?#sp=show-clips

https://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2016/07/18/air-force-leaders-plan-incentives-fix-fighter-pilot-shortage/87245740/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/08/10/the-air-force-fighter-pilot-shortage-is-already-a-crisis-and-it-could-soon-get-even-worse/

https://www.wnd.com/2016/08/crisis-usaf-warns-of-fighter-pilot-shortage/

 

 

 

people like GC precipitated this crisis, but don't expect any accountability or apology.  

Chang is a fvcking Major working 730-1630 for some nameless manager destined to become another POS GO in the image of those that stratified him the past 6-9 years. When Chang's staff gig is up he'll head back to a nameless base to serve as SARC or IG before he gets ushered out, only to take up a job as a Walmart greeter where he will give side-eye and mumble insults every time he sees someone wearing a flight suit enter through the exit doors. 

Quit giving him so much credit. 

4 hours ago, Duck said:

Exactly. And because SAF/PC is refusing to approve almost all Palace Chase Apps outside of 6 months, many guys I know are saying screw the Guard/Reserves, I am done with this garbage all together. If they would start being reasonable with PC approvals, guys would stay till retirement in the ARC, instead we lose them forever.

I was thinking this exact thing just the other day, is it better for me to try and Palace Chase and get hired by a Unit of which "we're not hiring" seems a common refrain; or just finish my commitment and make a clean break. 

Everyday I run into more and more first assignment guys in my AMC squadron already talking about getting out and going to the airlines.  I think it's pretty telling when the FNGs fresh out of school, full of the blue Kool Aid, are already dreaming about cutting bait.  I've never seen anything like it.

Edited August 16, 20169 yr by BADFNZ

all us mid level captains have seen the bullshit...we dropped when there was only one fighter per class, we had RPAs in our -38 drops, we were in the squadrons with the TAMI 21 guys and heard how they got screwed out of their fighters, we saw the masters swing back to required for major and how our friends had to claw to get it before their board, we saw it swing back to not being required, we had friday morale shirts taken away, we had pencil tab patches made illegal, we had black boots taken away for  swade, we saw dumbass ABUs come into "style" along with 1980s parachute PT pants, we saw the air force e-9s embarrass our peers in the died chow hall for wrong sock color (and be rewarded for it by the O-6), we saw 21 year old A1Cs drinking at DJ but aircrew were forbidden from even one beer, we saw our flying hours get cut back, we saw congress not do their job to the detriment of our survival in combat with zero shits given, we saw congress debate to take away dual spouse BAH, we became our own finance officer, we became our own professional CBT clicker, we saw below average yes men pilots do the minimum flying-wise and excel at queep only to get rewarded with good deal assignments and promotions (CHANG), we saw absurd increases in ROE for political purposes with no eye on victory.

We saw the airlines start to hire...

we didn't see our families, we didn't see clear cut victory in the war, we didn't see respect for our skills as pilots, we don't see a end in sight in deployments or war. 

The air force has been f***ing us since 2008. How the f*** are they surprised we don't want to stick around for the next 8 years to get run into the dirt. Most of my peers are getting TFO in a few years and i have zero fu**s or sympathy for big blue. They earned this. 

Edited August 16, 20169 yr by BashiChuni
liberal use of the 'F' word

22 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

all us mid level captains have seen the bullshit...we dropped when there was only one fighter per class, we had RPAs in our -38 drops, we were in the squadrons with the TAMI 21 guys and heard how they got screwed out of their fighters, we saw the masters swing back to required for major and how our friends had to claw to get it before their board, we saw it swing back to not being required, we had friday morale shirts taken away, we had pencil tab patches made illegal, we had black boots taken away for  swade, we saw dumbass ABUs come into "style" along with 1980s parachute PT pants, we saw the air force e-9s embarrass our peers in the died chow hall for wrong sock color (and be rewarded for it by the O-6), we saw 21 year old A1Cs drinking at DJ but aircrew were forbidden from even one beer, we saw our flying hours get cut back, we saw congress not do their job to the detriment of our survival in combat with zero shits given, we saw congress debate to take away dual spouse BAH, we became our own finance officer, we became our own professional CBT clicker, we saw below average yes men pilots do the minimum flying-wise and excel at queep only to get rewarded with good deal assignments and promotions (CHANG), we saw absurd increases in ROE for political purposes with no eye on victory.

We saw the airlines start to hire...

we didn't see our families, we didn't see clear cut victory in the war, we didn't see respect for our skills as pilots, we don't see a end in sight in deployments or war. 

The air force has been f***ing us since 2008. How the f*** are they surprised we don't want to stick around for the next 8 years to get run into the dirt. Most of my peers are getting TFO in a few years and i have zero fu**s or sympathy for big blue. They earned this. 

Nailed it. 

On August 15, 2016 at 7:57 PM, BADFNZ said:

Everyday I run into more and more first assignment guys in my AMC squadron already talking about getting out and going to the airlines.  I think it's pretty telling when the FNGs fresh out of school, full of the blue Kool Aid, are already dreaming about cutting bait.  I've never seen anything like it.

You weren't  around in 99-00, its cyclical.  And that above post is awesome.

But wait... I think they're going to allow us to stay in the BPC now!

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ARC dudes, does the bonus on our side typically mirror the AD bonus?  With the rumors of the AD bonus going up to compensate for thr continual shitshow 10-car pileup that is active duty, is it the norm for the ARC AGR bonus to follow suit?

It should mirror the AD bonus. Honestly, I've always thought the AGR bonus should be less than the AD bonus just because there is a whole lot less BS as an AGR in the ANG than there is on AD and an AGR could, in theory, go from a 2Lt to retiring as a 20 yr Lt Col without ever commanding a unit. There hasn't been as much of a tendancy to leave the AGR program as there is AD, but we're getting there, especially with the airlines hiring as much as they are. NGB has authorized ART bonuses and some units are hiring into GS13 positions at the step 7 level ($20k more than step 1). The manpower pain is being felt everywhere.

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