6 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Iranians are the masters of bad negotiating....delay delay delay then lie.

Trump has a blind spot with the art of the deal and does not understand how good they are at this game.

Beyond the lunatics in the IRGC if you want to understand some of the motivations of the Iranian people I highly recommend this book the "Persian Puzzle"...it was very eye opening. A group of people that have been conquered as a way of life.

You think any appointee in this admin understands Iran, let alone ever read a book on em? Maybe print a label to read on Kash whiskey or Facts of Iran on beer cans for Pete. They're all Tards.

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

Or....agree to multiple deal and violate all of them - The lies began when Iran’s nuclear weapons program was first exposed. In 2002, an Iranian opposition group reported that Iran had built secret enrichment and heavy water production facilities in violation of treaty commitments. Following extensive diplomacy, Iran signed on to the Tehran Declaration in October 2003, agreeing to “suspend all uranium enrichment and reprocessing activities.”

However, in August 2005, Iran resumed its enrichment activities. This led to diplomatic action that resulted in a series of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) sanctions imposed on Iran starting with resolution 1696 in July 2006. Iran’s continued defiance of its pledge to halt enrichment led to a series of resolutions including 1737, 1747, 1803, 1835, and 1929. The consequences included monetary sanctions, import and export weapons embargoes, a travel ban on Iranian officials for their support of terror and other proscribed activities, and a ban of the development of ballistic missiles. (Iran often defied these penalties.)

Everyone wants to hang their hats on JCPOA and turn a blind eye to them violating Security Council Resolution 2231 which endorsed JCPOA but limited their ballistic missile program....clearly they violated that (see Ballistic missiles shot at Diego Garcia).

If that is not enough how about all the continued funding to Hamas and Hezzbolah...How many Americans have to die from Irans actions before it matters?

Do any of you guys actually spend time in the vault?

lol now we bring up the NPT.. so would it matter at all that our BFF in this whole debacle has secret nukes and isn’t a signatory? Or do we just invoke international law when it’s convenient? Don’t bother answering that part, it’s a rhetorical question

But yes, agreed Iran has done shady stuff and lied and violated agreements. I don’t really count random security council resolutions as agreements though.. they’re pee pee schwacks delivered from an external organization. But yes they have also violated things they agreed to.

The reason we “hang our hat” on the JCPOA is that it was the most recent agreement and seemed to be somewhat working. IAEA said they were in compliance, and they only ramped up enrichment activities after we unilaterally pulled out of the deal in 2018. So yes Iran lies but we also randomly pull out of deals we made..

So where does that leave us? I guess if the argument is that Iran can never be trusted to adhere to anything, all this negotiating is a giant waste of time and we just need to sack up, invade the country, and topple the government.

Edited Friday at 09:17 PM1 day by Pooter

26 minutes ago, disgruntledemployee said:

You think any appointee in this admin understands Iran, let alone ever read a book on em? Maybe print a label to read on Kash whiskey or Facts of Iran on beer cans for Pete. They're all Tards.

You might be on to something here. Maybe send Ted Cruz a bottle too so he can learn the population of the country he wants other peoples kids to invade

Edited Friday at 09:32 PM1 day by Pooter

2 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

You think any appointee in this admin understands Iran, let alone ever read a book on em? Maybe print a label to read on Kash whiskey or Facts of Iran on beer cans for Pete.

Upset about Kash drinking when Hunter was snorting coke off Ukrainian hookers while he helped make foreign policy and millions for the "big guy"....right...lol.

2 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

They're all Tards.

100!

2 hours ago, Pooter said:

lol now we bring up the NPT.. so would it matter at all that our BFF in this whole debacle has secret nukes and isn’t a signatory? Or do we just invoke international law when it’s convenient? Don’t bother answering that part, it’s a rhetorical question

But yes, agreed Iran has done shady stuff and lied and violated agreements. I don’t really count random security council resolutions as agreements though.. they’re pee pee schwacks delivered from an external organization. But yes they have also violated things they agreed to.

The reason we “hang our hat” on the JCPOA is that it was the most recent agreement and seemed to be somewhat working. IAEA said they were in compliance, and they only ramped up enrichment activities after we unilaterally pulled out of the deal in 2018. So yes Iran lies but we also randomly pull out of deals we made..

You say it was working despite reports of secret enrichment facilities...and even if that is not true...they still developed TBMs and gave hundreds of millions to terror organization that targeted Americans.

2 hours ago, Pooter said:

So where does that leave us? I guess if the argument is that Iran can never be trusted to adhere to anything, all this negotiating is a giant waste of time and we just need to sack up, invade the country, and topple the government.

I certainly don't want another forever war, I truly don't want my kid or your to go fight or endure the things I did. I also hope we don't invade and as much as I admire Razin, I think Pete's ability to provide outside the box solutions is questionable. If it were me, I would lock a bunch of senior Captains, Majors and Army/Marine E-6/7s in a room and let them come up with a plan to remove the IRGC and empower the people.

3 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

You think any appointee in this admin understands Iran, let alone ever read a book on em

I feel confident saying Rubio has done his homework on Iran. By all accounts he's a squared away professional and understanding them and many others sits squarely in his wheelhouse as Sec State. Whether anyone actually listens to him, that's another story.

I second Persian Puzzle. Excellent context about how they think. "Bad negotiating" (regardless of disgrunted's semantic argument...) is probably the best phrase to explain precisely how they think. To them, Politics and international relations are war by other means, not the other way around. But in the end, they are similar to China, though on a small scale. They may have big words and big rhetoric, but almost everything they do is centered around remaining in power and controlling their own population. The IRGC and current regime need to go. Persia is for Perisans, not Arabs and Islamists.

Edited yesterday at 12:27 AM1 day by FourFans

21 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Iranians are the masters of bad negotiating....delay delay delay then lie.

Trump has a blind spot with the art of the deal and does not understand how good they are at this game.

Beyond the lunatics in the IRGC if you want to understand some of the motivations of the Iranian people I highly recommend this book the "Persian Puzzle"...it was very eye opening. A group of people that have been conquered as a way of life.

Thanks for the book recommendation. I'd also add Persia was once the one doing the conquering, with a vast empire. Everyone I've dealt with from a culture like that has a long memory. Chinese, Greek/Turks, and Persians. I'd say the only difference is the Brits, but I suppose since empires fell out of favor and they "gave up" the empire it's kinda different.

Either way I've never thought Trump was a "good" negotiator. He's just had some form of "fuck you" money before and now is finding out the GDP isn't his fuck you money specifically.

And Kash is the Dir of FBI, What appointed office was Hunter holding in the Obama Administration?

Edited yesterday at 11:15 AM1 day by 17D_guy

1 hour ago, 17D_guy said:

Thanks for the book recommendation. I'd also add Persia was once the one doing the conquering, with a vast empire. Everyone I've dealt with from a culture like that has a long memory. Chinese, Greek/Turks, and Persians. I'd say the only difference is the Brits, but I suppose since empires fell out of favor and they "gave up" the empire it's kinda different.

True but if you read the book you will see they've been conquered far more times than they have conquered anyone and it now part of their identity to the point of paranoia. Likely why they have been able to stomach horrible ground and pound tactics seen during the Iran/Iraq war. The book was really an eye opener for me.

1 hour ago, 17D_guy said:

Either way I've never thought Trump was a "good" negotiator. He's just had some form of "fuck you" money before and now is finding out the GDP isn't his fuck you money specifically.

I don't disregard everything he has done. The Abraham Accords were historic and the actions at the start of this term to bring manufacturing back to the 48 could payoff handsomely for our economy, although likely after he leaves office. The one issue is perhaps my biggest problem with the DNC aside from open borders. Under Clinton via things like NAFTA we gave away the store in the name of "globalism."

1 hour ago, 17D_guy said:

And Kash is the Dir of FBI, What appointed office was Hunter holding in the Obama Administration?

You kind of just made my point for me....Hunter was not appointed or confirmed but was making deals left and right...

Some interesting photographs of A-10s that have been fighting in Iran speak to somewhat of a strategy, at least on the surface level. This picture highlights something I mentioned early on, they have been using a lot of lower yield munitions most likely due to CDE constraints imposed by the ROE?

A lot of the early video showed much smaller detonations from what I would have expected, now I see why.

The targets have always been military things that empower the IRGC and never the Iranian people. I see a lot of APKWS, SDB and what would appear to be 500lb class bombs (GBU-38/54)....2 X 2000lb munitions (they don't have the traditional marking of a GBU-31 or a GBU-10...wondering if they were slick MK-84s? Could be just a painting issue. Regardless, there is some restraint on display.

7 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Some interesting photographs of A-10s that have been fighting in Iran speak to somewhat of a strategy, at least on the surface level. This picture highlights something I mentioned early on, they have been using a lot of lower yield munitions most likely due to CDE constraints imposed by the ROE?

A lot of the early video showed much smaller detonations from what I would have expected, now I see why.

The targets have always been military things that empower the IRGC and never the Iranian people. I see a lot of APKWS, SDB and what would appear to be 500lb class bombs (GBU-38/54)....2 X 2000lb munitions (they don't have the traditional marking of a GBU-31 or a GBU-10...wondering if they were slick MK-84s? Could be just a painting issue. Regardless, there is some restraint on display.

Think the dead girls school would beg to differ on "always."

What deals did Hunter do in behalf of the us govt? What deals has Kash done? Apples and F22s here.

Also, wtf is this MOU? This is winning?

Trump says deal to end war will be signed on Sunday, Iran questions timing | Reuters https://share.google/hB6xIBxBUw7A8UzRZ

Estimates, depending on source, put the proportion of civcas at 15-20% of total dead, at a minimum, with some sources estimating 50%.

MilitarySpend.org

Iran War Casualties 2026: US, Iran & Civilian Death Toll...

2026 Iran war casualties tracker: 8,351–17,685 total killed across all sides. US 13–15 KIA, Iran 1,800–7,650 military KIA, civilian casualties across Iran, Israel, Lebanon and Gulf states, plus US equ

14 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

Think the dead girls school would beg to differ on "always."

Of course you would take a tactical observation and twist it. I never said there was no collateral damage...I said it "appears" there is an effort to limit CD. It is interesting you never mention all the dead Americans as a result of Iran and their actions/funding/support...c'est la vie I guess.

14 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

What deals did Hunter do in behalf of the us govt? What deals has Kash done? Apples and F22s here.

Burisma - Ukraine

BHR Partners - China

CEFC - China

Look up his real estate deals around the U.S. Embassy in China

God knows what else but we will never know because the "Big Guy" gave him a pardon for EVERYTHING.

12 hours ago, Negat0ry said:

Estimates, depending on source, put the proportion of civcas at 15-20% of total dead, at a minimum, with some sources estimating 50%.

MilitarySpend.org

Iran War Casualties 2026: US, Iran & Civilian Death Toll...

2026 Iran war casualties tracker: 8,351–17,685 total killed across all sides. US 13–15 KIA, Iran 1,800–7,650 military KIA, civilian casualties across Iran, Israel, Lebanon and Gulf states, plus US equ

How about some context?
#1 - How does that compare to other conflicts?

#2 - HUGE disclaimer as they admittedly include and lump in figures from Israel/Lebanon/other Gulf States

I was talking about U.S. efforts to minimize CD...I am sure the Iranians have done the same.

War is horrible, abhorrent and disgusting and I am not defending it, merely making tactical observations.

3 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Of course you would take a tactical observation and twist it. I never said there was no collateral damage...I said it "appears" there is an effort to limit CD. It is interesting you never mention all the dead Americans as a result of Iran and their actions/funding/support...c'est la vie I guess.

Burisma - Ukraine

BHR Partners - China

CEFC - China

Look up his real estate deals around the U.S. Embassy in China

God knows what else but we will never know because the "Big Guy" gave him a pardon for EVERYTHING.

How about some context?
#1 - How does that compare to other conflicts?

#2 - HUGE disclaimer as they admittedly include and lump in figures from Israel/Lebanon/other Gulf States

I was talking about U.S. efforts to minimize CD...I am sure the Iranians have done the same.

War is horrible, abhorrent and disgusting and I am not defending it, merely making tactical observations.

"The target have always been military things..." K.

We could go back and forth on Hunter, should I bring up the BILLIONS of dollars Jared got from the Saudis at this point?

Either way, this MOU seems like a giant white flag flown above the Stars and Stripes. But I'm sure someone will tell me how we're actually winning.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by 17D_guy