The new airline thread

[SocialD]

On 1/26/2018 at 7:49 AM, brabus said:

How do the different majors look at/feel about mil leave IRT timing of indoc/training?  Part of me is starting to think it'd be a loss to not get the foot in the door now, but on the other hand I'm not ready to be a part timer, at least for the foreseeable future.  Meaning, I don't want to go fly the line for a year, then drop orders, preferably would do it far earlier than that.  Is that a pipe dream?  Depend on the company?  The alternative is shitcan the idea, but then I'll likely be 40-something and wishing I'd done it earlier (get a line # that is).

- If you think you'll ever go to the airlines then you need to get your seniority number as soon as possible.  Seniority is everything!

- Dont' double-commute.

- Don't commute at all.

- Pre-planning 3+ years of MLOA is not something I would ever do.

- See the bullet #1.

- Many guys say they're not ready to be a part timer, until they become a part timer...  Best gig ever!

- Seniority is everything.

[nunya]

11 minutes ago, SocialD said:

until they become a part timer

And then they apply to be an Academy Liaison so they don't miss premium pay trips.

[brabus]

Copy shots...I was not aware there was profit sharing, etc. immediately following hiring.  In my mind it was purely a number on a spread sheet and nothing more (e.g. no loss for the company in the short term); now I'm more educated (but still pretty dumb on the whole process).  I don't know exactly when the orders will start, but even if I'm hired quickly, I probably wouldn't be able to get through more than 4-6 months of probation.  Is at least some amount of probation OK or are you guys saying do all or don't even try for the airlines until you have the full year (or more) to commit?

Edited January 28, 2018 by brabus

[SnapLock]

7 hours ago, brabus said:

Copy shots...I was not aware there was profit sharing, etc. immediately following hiring.  In my mind it was purely a number on a spread sheet and nothing more (e.g. no loss for the company in the short term); now I'm more educated (but still pretty dumb on the whole process).  I don't know exactly when the orders will start, but even if I'm hired quickly, I probably wouldn't be able to get through more than 4-6 months of probation.  Is at least some amount of probation OK or are you guys saying do all or don't even try for the airlines until you have the full year (or more) to commit?

Well, it would probably be best to plan on giving your new employer a year before going on long term orders. That's just my opinion, and I have several friends who went on long term mil leave before finishing probation so it does happen a lot. I do think they're kind of rolling the dice though by doing it that way. I've heard rumors that the airlines have petitioned to get changes made to USERRA because of all of the abuses. When you return from mil leave your orders and timeline are also going to face a lot of scrutiny whether you actually see that or not. It will happen, and if you've messed something up you're screwed, plus you'll still be on probation. If you don't want to miss out and get that seniority number because the airlines are the career you want to take you to retirement why would you gamble with that? Will it really be that hard to fly mil part time for your first year to ensure you get off probation? To each their own but that's my 2 cents.

[Buddy Spike]

Something else to consider - if you're an O4, you'll start to lose money by doing mil as you hit year 2-3 pay (depending on the airline). No idea why you'd want to lose money to put up with the daily grind of AF BS when you could be a part timer, make more money, and work a lot less overall.

Just food for thought.

 

[BADFNZ]

Maybe this is a question for the AFRC/ANG board, but I figure this applies to airline guys too...

Are there any part-time non-flying AFRC/ANG jobs that pilots can do that might work better with an airline pilot's schedule?  The city I want to settle down in has an ANG flying unit, but I'm not sure if I want to cross-train, go through the school house, etc. all over again for a new airframe.  I might actually enjoy flying a desk for a few days a month as a break from airline flying.  Any positions like this that are common in AFRC/ANG units?

[HossHarris]

19 minutes ago, Buddy Spike said:

Something else to consider - if you're an O4, you'll start to lose money by doing mil as you hit year 2-3 pay (depending on the airline). No idea why you'd want to lose money to put up with the daily grind of AF BS when you could be a part timer, make more money, and work a lot less overall.

Just food for thought.

 

If you can lock down an active duty retirement, it’s worth it 

 

[Buddy Spike]

13 minutes ago, HossHarris said:

If you can lock down an active duty retirement, it’s worth it 

 

IIRC Brabus wouldn't be close to that even with a 3 year AGR tour. 

[baileynme]

Maybe this is a question for the AFRC/ANG board, but I figure this applies to airline guys too...
Are there any part-time non-flying AFRC/ANG jobs that pilots can do that might work better with an airline pilot's schedule?  The city I want to settle down in has an ANG flying unit, but I'm not sure if I want to cross-train, go through the school house, etc. all over again for a new airframe.  I might actually enjoy flying a desk for a few days a month as a break from airline flying.  Any positions like this that are common in AFRC/ANG units?

Look into points only jobs. Sure you don’t accrue as many points in a given year but they seem to be more flexible. I’m still naive on them but they are one of my leading post-AD mil options. The two I know of are Academy Liaison Officer (ALO) and CAP Liaison. For anyone that is smart on this, can you do multiple points only gigs or is there something restricting you to one?

[brabus]

3 hours ago, Buddy Spike said:

Something else to consider - if you're an O4, you'll start to lose money by doing mil as you hit year 2-3 pay (depending on the airline). No idea why you'd want to lose money to put up with the daily grind of AF BS when you could be a part timer, make more money, and work a lot less overall.

Just food for thought.

 

Valid...and no it wouldn't take me all the way to retirement, but it does put me closer.  The "issue" is the AGR is tied to a TX, so unless I want to full up stop working for the guard and not TX, then I "have to" go with the 2.5-3 yrs AGR.  I do recognize I could full up quit the AF or move to another location to forego a TX, but neither are something I or the family want to do, regardless of what we are considering for the next job down the road.  Thanks for the info dudes, glad to be smarter on the whole thing; certainly have some thinking to do.

Edited January 28, 2018 by brabus

[Buddy Spike]

4 minutes ago, brabus said:

Valid...and no it wouldn't take me all the way to retirement, but it does put me closer.  The "issue" is the AGR is tied to a TX, so unless I want to full up stop working for the guard and not TX, then I "have to" go with the 2.5-3 yrs AGR.  I do recognize I could full up quit the AF or move to another location to forego a TX, but neither are something I or the family want to do, regardless of what we are considering for the next job down the road.  Thanks for the info dudes, glad to be smarter on the whole thing; certainly have some thinking to do.

Could you do a TX + seasoning instead?

Is the Guard unit co-located with any of the major airline hubs?  

[brabus]

It is a TX+seasoning (~2.5-3 yrs total).  Not co-located, but a "reasonable" commute.

[SocialD]

Holy shit, 2.5-3 years of "seasoning???"  What the fuck are you flying, the millennium falcon?  Sounds more like the squadron just wanting to ensure a full timer for a few years before they lose you to the airlines.   

I've ran the numbers a bit, and if you're just "getting close" to a retirement, it's not worth it.  Hell, based on what I give up vs what little I gain, it's really not even worth it to stick past 20 to get my full 3 years as an O-5.  Now if you think you'll be able to actually get a full retirement it's a different story.

Edited January 28, 2018 by SocialD

[Tank]

I’m a 15.5 (points) year O-5 in the Reserves and in year 3 at my airline where I’m a commuter.  I’m planning on applying for AGR in my Reserve unit.  

It gives me an opportunity to fly a new plane, gets me closer to my 20, allows my airline to unf**k their fleet plan and I get to watch my seniority grow.  

I understand I’ll start losing money over the long run being AGR but in my opinion, the other benefits outweigh the money lost.  

To each their own...

[gearhog]

2 hours ago, Tank said:

I’m a 15.5 (points) year O-5 in the Reserves and in year 3 at my airline where I’m a commuter.  I’m planning on applying for AGR in my Reserve unit.  

It gives me an opportunity to fly a new plane, gets me closer to my 20, allows my airline to unf**k their fleet plan and I get to watch my seniority grow.  

I understand I’ll start losing money over the long run being AGR but in my opinion, the other benefits outweigh the money lost.  

To each their own...

on friday you couldn't decide whether to medically retire for a hip replacement, two days later you're applying for an flying AGR position? okay.

[Tank]

2 hours ago, torqued said:

on friday you couldn't decide whether to medically retire for a hip replacement, two days later you're applying for an flying AGR position? okay.

You’re correct.  

My plan was always to apply for AGR this summer/fall.  My squadron currently does not have AGR but we are receiving them.  

You're also right in the fact that I asked about medical retirement vs 20 year military retirement.  I like to have knowledge on all my options and be in the know so that I’m not surprised by something unexpected.  

I think it’s funny that you think you know me and think you’re smart in calling me out just because I asked a question about retirement and stated my opinion/plan about AGR.  

Keep fighting the good fight... okay.  

[Danny Noonin]

Maybe this is a question for the AFRC/ANG board, but I figure this applies to airline guys too...
Are there any part-time non-flying AFRC/ANG jobs that pilots can do that might work better with an airline pilot's schedule?  The city I want to settle down in has an ANG flying unit, but I'm not sure if I want to cross-train, go through the school house, etc. all over again for a new airframe.  I might actually enjoy flying a desk for a few days a month as a break from airline flying.  Any positions like this that are common in AFRC/ANG units?

There are also non-flying options that aren’t points only. There are AOC augmentation units in both ANG and AFRC in various places around the country that are pretty much your classic one weekend a month+2 weeks a year jobs. Skulls up: You’ll also likely buy a 179 to a CAOC once every couple years in those jobs. There are “IMA” jobs in AFRC. Think of those as part time staff jobs, although some rare ones are not staff probably. Believe it or not, those can be challenging to get for an 11 because here are not that many of them and dudes park in the slots for years.

[HuggyU2]

11 hours ago, brabus said:

Not co-located, but a "reasonable" commute.

Meaning you will drive to work?  Or you will need to fly to work?

[gearhog]

10 hours ago, Tank said:

You’re correct.  

My plan was always to apply for AGR this summer/fall.  My squadron currently does not have AGR but we are receiving them.  

You're also right in the fact that I asked about medical retirement vs 20 year military retirement.  I like to have knowledge on all my options and be in the know so that I’m not surprised by something unexpected.  

I think it’s funny that you think you know me and think you’re smart in calling me out just because I asked a question about retirement and stated my opinion/plan about AGR.  

Keep fighting the good fight... okay.  

no problem, you appeared to be contradicting yourself but i didn't have the full story. i've done some temp AGR lately, and i still can't imagine, assuming you have a job at one of the big 6 airlines, that any AGR would yield a higher amount of benefits/pay/quality of life, especially if the med requirements are more strict. good luck in your decision.

[Tank]

1 hour ago, torqued said:

no problem, you appeared to be contradicting yourself but i didn't have the full story. i've done some temp AGR lately, and i still can't imagine, assuming you have a job at one of the big 6 airlines, that any AGR would yield a higher amount of benefits/pay/quality of life, especially if the med requirements are more strict. good luck in your decision.

Thank you.  

I do have a job at one of the Big 3 but the benefits for me taking AGR is that I’m in the most senior base, currently 5 from the bottom and can only hold reserve (I’m in year 3 currently).  The company is supposed to ramp up hiring and I’m hoping they start growing my base so that I can be a line holder.  Also to note, the base I’m in is the only single leg commutable base from where I live.  

It’d also be nice to get to my 20 so that I can retire and only have 1 full time job because it seems to me that AFRC has become AD light and I put in a lot of time at my squadron.  

First things first though, I have to see the outcome of my MEB when that time comes.  

[Bergman]

9 hours ago, Tank said:

currently 5 from the bottom and can only hold reserve (I’m in year 3 currently).  The company is supposed to ramp up hiring and I’m hoping they start growing my base so that I can be a line holder.

Was this self-inflicted based on your aircraft selection?  If you bid the 787 at the earliest opportunity, I don't have a lot of sympathy for your plight.

"For your information, you stuck it in your own ass!"

[ChkHandleDn]

On 1/28/2018 at 10:13 AM, BADFNZ said:

Maybe this is a question for the AFRC/ANG board, but I figure this applies to airline guys too...

Are there any part-time non-flying AFRC/ANG jobs that pilots can do that might work better with an airline pilot's schedule?  The city I want to settle down in has an ANG flying unit, but I'm not sure if I want to cross-train, go through the school house, etc. all over again for a new airframe.  I might actually enjoy flying a desk for a few days a month as a break from airline flying.  Any positions like this that are common in AFRC/ANG units?

Selective Service Reserve Force Officer. Best kept secret out there. Paid IMA and TRS. However If you live and want to work in Region II (TX MS AL NC SC GA LA FL TN) the line/waiting list is out the door so good luck. Maybe other regions will have openings. 

[RTB]

1 hour ago, ChkHandleDn said:

Selective Service Reserve Force Officer. Best kept secret out there. Paid IMA and TRS. However If you live and want to work in Region II (TX MS AL NC SC GA LA FL TN) the line/waiting list is out the door so good luck. Maybe other regions will have openings. 

If the line is out the door, may not the that much of a best kept secret...

[ChkHandleDn]

30 minutes ago, RTB said:

If the line is out the door, may not the that much of a best kept secret...

Touché. Used to be the best kept secret. A lot of work from home/on a layover. Can't beat that. 

Edited January 30, 2018 by ChkHandleDn

[Tank]

6 hours ago, Bergman said:

Was this self-inflicted based on your aircraft selection?  If you bid the 787 at the earliest opportunity, I don't have a lot of sympathy for your plight.

"For your information, you stuck it in your own ass!"

Nope, not self inflicted based on aircraft but based on domecile.  There is only one domecile that is a single leg commute from my home and unfornately that domecile has become the most senior for the company.  

So, I could do a double commute to a line or a much easier single commute to reserve.  

Commuting sucks but to have to suck up a double commute is not in my plans.