17 hours ago, brabus said:

@Day Man Great clip. Textbook example of putting ego aside and updating viewpoints when new information is presented/previous information is invalidated. Also textbook example of being man enough to admit when you’re wrong and moving forward.

Hope everyone took a good lesson learned out of that self-debrief! I’m sure you did…

So, you're saying Vance went from thinking he's like Adolf Hitler to the greatest politician anyone's ever seen? You think it's because of a true change of heart vs political expediency that will benefit his own career? MMmmmkay. That's a serious change of heart... Now do Rubio. Oh, wait, Lindsey Graham. Should we keep going? Until he won, everyone spoke the truth, but then they hopped on his coattails. Or, maybe it was the Art of the Deal, and he sold them all on what a brilliant man he is. That's logical.

22 minutes ago, slackline said:

So, you're saying Vance went from thinking he's like Adolf Hitler to the greatest politician anyone's ever seen? You think it's because of a true change of heart vs political expediency that will benefit his own career? MMmmmkay. That's a serious change of heart.………….

i think Vance, like most rational people, witnessed the positive changes in federal policy under “orange nazi” as compared to years of leftist democrat representation.

I’ve never heard anybody, except Trump himself, say what a “great man” or “great politician” our current POTUS is. There probably are some who have, but most conservatives recognize hyperbole if and when we hear it, and don’t tend to idolize people.

29 minutes ago, slackline said:

So, you're saying Vance went from thinking he's like Adolf Hitler to the greatest politician anyone's ever seen? You think it's because of a true change of heart vs political expediency that will benefit his own career? MMmmmkay. That's a serious change of heart... Now do Rubio. Oh, wait, Lindsey Graham. Should we keep going? Until he won, everyone spoke the truth, but then they hopped on his coattails. Or, maybe it was the Art of the Deal, and he sold them all on what a brilliant man he is. That's logical.

Or maybe Vance recognized that he was getting caught up in the same political rhetoric that so many others got caught up in? You know, the one where you compare everyone you don't like to Hitler, even though they haven't systematically eliminated millions based on their religion or ethnicity?

Or maybe he made the comment in 2016, when nobody knew how Donald Trump was going to govern? And since then, Donald Trump made very clear his stance on a whole bevy of conservative issues that would appeal to someone like JD Vance.

Now, if he had changed his mind in a matter of weeks because of a political appointment, I think you'd have a point.

But JD Vance is far from the only person who thought Trump was going to be a catastrophe for the conservative movement, but was proven wrong (me).

8 hours ago, bfargin said:

I’ve never heard anybody, except Trump himself, say what a “great man” or “great politician” our current POTUS is. There probably are some who have, but most conservatives recognize hyperbole if and when we hear it, and don’t tend to idolize people.

Really, that's rich. Just today Kegsbreath was saying he was the best CINC he's ever seen. Why lie about something so obvious? Have you not watched any of the footage from a cabinet meeting where they kiss up to him as he cat he's a nap?

And I get it, Biden was garbage. Agreed wholeheartedly, but you guys and your blinders...

8 hours ago, bfargin said:

I’ve never heard anybody, except Trump himself, say what a “great man” or “great politician” our current POTUS is. There probably are some who have, but most conservatives recognize hyperbole if and when we hear it, and don’t tend to idolize people.

Really, that's rich. Just today Kegsbreath was saying he was the best CINC he's ever seen. Why lie about something so obvious? Have you not watched any of the footage from a cabinet meeting where they kiss up to him as he cat he's a nap?

And I get it, Biden was garbage. Agreed wholeheartedly, but you guys and your blinders...

8 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Or maybe Vance recognized that he was getting caught up in the same political rhetoric that so many others got caught up in? You know, the one where you compare everyone you don't like to Hitler, even though they haven't systematically eliminated millions based on their religion or ethnicity?

Or maybe he made the comment in 2016, when nobody knew how Donald Trump was going to govern? And since then, Donald Trump made very clear his stance on a whole bevy of conservative issues that would appeal to someone like JD Vance.

Now, if he had changed his mind in a matter of weeks because of a political appointment, I think you'd have a point.

But JD Vance is far from the only person who thought Trump was going to be a catastrophe for the conservative movement, but was proven wrong (me).

They did change their tune, almost overnight. Then Trump lost 2020 (I'm sure some of you think he won because he told you to), and their tune changed again, oh, somewhere around Jan 6th... Unsure why. And then it looked like he was going to make a comeback, and they changed their tune again.

As for the Hitler comparisons, I think you guys are forgetting that He didn't start his career out by killing millions of people. There was a slow boil that led to it...

We are a laughing stock, the world over. The cabinet, for being all about merit, is full of unqualified lapdogs. The economy is great for people with enough money to invest, but sucks for everyone else. Trump has stopped science dead in its tracks, to the point that it will be almost impossible to catch up to China now. You guys must not believe climate change is a real thing, which, good for you because he's rolled back every measure that made sense to slow it down. Voting rights have taken another major hit thanks to his SC, which he only likes when they rule in his favor. His SAVE act is a thinly veiled voter suppression act, and if it passes Republicans will take the biggest hit since they're the voters least likely to have a passport. We could go on, but I won't waste any more of your time. The narcissistic attitudes in here by what I used to believe we're critical thinkers is mind boggling.

OK, I'll go back to lurking for another few years.

47 minutes ago, slackline said:

OK, I'll go back to lurking for another few years.

Probably for the best.

@slackline I believe you believe that wild bullshit. Critical thinking indeed. Pro tip, when you consistently consume negative, bullshit information, your brain will transition to thinking that way no matter what. Help yourself by putting down the AOC gummies and focus on all the good things in your life, this country, and the world. You’ll be much happier for it.

10 hours ago, slackline said:

Kegsbreath

Quit reading after this.

55 minutes ago, brabus said:

@slackline I believe you believe that wild bullshit. Critical thinking indeed. Pro tip, when you consistently consume negative, bullshit information, your brain will transition to thinking that way no matter what. Help yourself by putting down the AOC gummies and focus on all the good things in your life, this country, and the world. You’ll be much happier for it.

I noticed none of you can provide legitimate responses to anything. I'm plenty happy, just trying to help you folks take your blinders off. Far be it from me though, if you're happy in your ignorance.

37 minutes ago, Blue said:

Quit reading after this.

Did I hurt your feelings after calling the most unqualified SECDEF in history an accurate name? Truth sucks I guess.

4 hours ago, slackline said:

I noticed none of you can provide legitimate responses to anything. I'm plenty happy, just trying to help you folks take your blinders off. Far be it from me though, if you're happy in your ignorance.

There are hundreds of pages of legitimate responses to all of these topics you brought up, you just choose to ignore them. Enjoy your happiness in willful ignorance.

15 hours ago, slackline said:

YThey did change their tune, almost overnight. Then Trump lost 2020 (I'm sure some of you think he won because he told you to), and their tune changed again, oh, somewhere around Jan 6th... Unsure why. And then it looked like he was going to make a comeback, and they changed their tune again.

As for the Hitler comparisons, I think you guys are forgetting that He didn't start his career out by killing millions of people. There was a slow boil that led to it...

We are a laughing stock, the world over. The cabinet, for being all about merit, is full of unqualified lapdogs. The economy is great for people with enough money to invest, but sucks for everyone else. Trump has stopped science dead in its tracks, to the point that it will be almost impossible to catch up to China now. You guys must not believe climate change is a real thing, which, good for you because he's rolled back every measure that made sense to slow it down. Voting rights have taken another major hit thanks to his SC, which he only likes when they rule in his favor. His SAVE act is a thinly veiled voter suppression act, and if it passes Republicans will take the biggest hit since they're the voters least likely to have a passport. We could go on, but I won't waste any more of your time. The narcissistic attitudes in here by what I used to believe we're critical thinkers is mind boggling.

Bro...

Who cares what emotional response our inferiors have? Seriously? WGAF. The people you reference laughing are our dependents. Our vassals. Groups of people who have forgotten who actually makes the sausage on this planet. And you care about some chump lauging from the sidelines? Okay.

Yeah the economy sucks. But why? It goes well beyond any political party or who is the president.

Science stopped dead in it's tracks? By this president? Dude you're hysterical. There has been a replication crisis in science for decades. Science (TM) went off the rails ages ago due to the government inextricably grafting itself into the university system by tying funding and grants to it. Check out how much "social science" replicates...almost none. Any that does (IQ) is verboten from actually being studied for real.

Climate change? Yeah. Ok. We're changing the climate. Guess what. That's all baked in. You know what is going to fix it though? Not a new tax. Not decreasing everyone's quality of life. Nope. It's going to be technology. You know who is dead-set against that though? The Left. We can't implement an actual solution because some poor people might get left behind. Or might not be able to buy Cheetos with the tax money they take from me to give to them...so they can have dignity or something. Instead, we'll get initiatives that seek to re-fortify poor people's homes against noise pollution because they tend to live in noisier areas. Under the guise of "climate justice." So don't confuse not believing in climate change with not buying into the Left's BS way of "fixing" it. They are different and separate.

Voting rights? Dude, GTFO. The Left has gerrymandered the political maps in the country for decades prior to this recent spat specifically to create racial voting blocks in this country. Thankfully, that is coming to end. I know you don't believe me though. But it's true. Just look at New England. 40% republican. Not one republican representative. Doubt you would listen to something by the Federalist, but this episode provides the historical context and the solution. Bottom line: groups of people living together were supposed to be represented together. How to fix that is forcing redistricting boundaries to follow a simple mathematical relationship - the perimeter of a congressional district divided by its area must remain below a certain ratio. Fair. Color blind. Aligned with the intent of our founding. Check it out.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-virginias-twisted-gerrymander-wont-survive-judicial/id983782306?i=1000762441668

And in any case, no one has yet to make a cogent argument as to why you shouldn't need to prove citizenship to be able to vote. It's unimaginable anyone could come down on a different side of this issue, but then again, these are crazy times, and we are a divided people.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by ViperMan

1 hour ago, ViperMan said:

The Left has gerrymandered the political maps in the country for decades prior to this recent spat specifically to create racial voting blocks in this country.

Yet actual analysis plainly contradicts you and shows that gerrymandering unfairly supports republicans, not the other way around. To a net of 16-19 seats in the house. What you’re doing is called cherry picking data.

But I get it, sources on a lot of these feelings are hard to find.

Brennan Center for Justice

Gerrymandering and the 2024 Election

In most of the United States, politicians have drawn voting maps designed to keep their party in power.

Center for American Progress

The Impact of Partisan Gerrymandering

New CAP analysis finds that the impacts of partisan gerrymandering are comparable to switching the majority of votes in 22 states.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by Negat0ry

1 hour ago, ViperMan said:

Bro...

Who cares what emotional response our inferiors have? Seriously? WGAF. The people you reference laughing are our dependents. Our vassals. Groups of people who have forgotten who actually makes the sausage on this planet. And you care about some chump lauging from the sidelines? Okay.

Yeah the economy sucks. But why? It goes well beyond any political party or who is the president.

Science stopped dead in it's tracks? By this president? Dude you're hysterical. There has been a replication crisis in science for decades. Science (TM) went off the rails ages ago due to the government inextricably grafting itself into the university system by tying funding and grants to it. Check out how much "social science" replicates...almost none. Any that does (IQ) is verboten from actually being studied for real.

Climate change? Yeah. Ok. We're changing the climate. Guess what. That's all baked in. You know what is going to fix it though? Not a new tax. Not decreasing everyone's quality of life. Nope. It's going to be technology. You know who is dead-set against that though? The Left. We can't implement an actual solution because some poor people might get left behind. Or might not be able to buy Cheetos with the tax money they take from me to give to them...so they can have dignity or something. Instead, we'll get initiatives that seek to re-fortify poor people's homes against noise pollution because they tend to live in noisier areas. Under the guise of "climate justice." So don't confuse not believing in climate change with not buying into the Left's BS way of "fixing" it. They are different and separate.

Voting rights? Dude, GTFO. The Left has gerrymandered the political maps in the country for decades prior to this recent spat specifically to create racial voting blocks in this country. Thankfully, that is coming to end. I know you don't believe me though. But it's true. Just look at New England. 40% republican. Not one republican representative. Doubt you would listen to something by the Federalist, but this episode provides the historical context and the solution. Bottom line: groups of people living together were supposed to be represented together. How to fix that is forcing redistricting boundaries to follow a simple mathematical relationship - the perimeter of a congressional district divided by its area must remain below a certain ratio. Fair. Color blind. Aligned with the intent of our founding. Check it out.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-virginias-twisted-gerrymander-wont-survive-judicial/id983782306?i=1000762441668

And in any case, no one has yet to make a cogent argument as to why you shouldn't need to prove citizenship to be able to vote. It's unimaginable anyone could come down on a different side of this issue, but then again, these are crazy times, and we are a divided people.

"Our inferiors?" "Our vassals?" Come on, man. Those "dependents" host our bases, share intelligence, fly our wing, and bleed beside us. NATO interoperability, Five Eyes, AUKUS... none of that works if allies decide we're not worth the hassle. Swagger isn't strategy. You of all people should know the difference.

Economy: we actually agree more than you think. Structural forces matter. But you can't hand-wave away tariff-driven consumer price increases that the CBO says hit lower-income households hardest, then tell the guy making $50K that the market is doing great. That's not an argument; that's a view from a portfolio.

Science: you changed the subject. I'm not talking about social science replication problems. I'm talking about 7,800+ NIH and NSF grants cancelled or frozen in 2025, competitive NIH grants down by half in FY26, 25,000+ science agency employees gone, and NSF staffing down 35%. Meanwhile, China passed us in total scientific publications in 2024 for the first time since we passed the Brits in 1948, and an OECD report from March confirms they've matched or surpassed our R&D spending by purchasing power. You say technology will fix climate change. I actually agree with that. So explain to me how gutting the NSF, slashing DOE's Office of Science, and firing the entire National Science Board gets us there. You're rooting for the racehorse while shooting it in the legs.

Gerrymandering: you're right that both sides do it. I'll give you that. Your New England example is real. But the Brennan Center's analysis of maps used in 2024 shows a net 16-seat Republican advantage from redistricting alone, and Republicans controlled the drawing of 191 districts to Democrats' 75. FactCheck.org surveyed multiple independent statisticians; none concluded Democrats held the larger advantage. Your math-based redistricting fix is actually a solid idea. Lead with that instead of pretending it's a one-sided problem.

SAVE Act: "Why shouldn't you prove citizenship to vote?" Sounds great until you look at how it works. Citizenship is already required. It's already enforced. Utah audited its entire voter roll of 2 million+ people and found one noncitizen registration and zero noncitizen votes. Kansas tried a similar documentary proof requirement and blocked 30,000 registrations in two years; over 99% were eligible citizens. Under the SAVE Act, 52% of registered voters don't have an unexpired passport with their current legal name. Only 1 in 4 Americans without a college degree have a valid passport. Republican women are twice as likely to have changed their surname, meaning their birth certificate won't match. Rural voters, the elderly, working-class folks... these are your people, and this bill hits them hardest. It's a solution to a 0.04% problem that creates a barrier for millions of eligible Americans.

I get it, the forum leans one way and I'm outnumbered. That's fine. But "you're hysterical" and "put down the AOC gummies" aren't rebuttals. Numbers are. I brought some.