Border crisis

[Clark Griswold]

Initial report of TB among illegal immigrant minors at Lackland

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/07/immigration-crisis-tuberculosis-spreading-at-camps/

Not for a iron fist response, a lot of them are young kids in a very vulnerable spot but this is a turning point - we're going to control who comes in and stays or not.

This latest crisis makes me think we don't need a pivot to Asia but a pivot to Central America.

[matmacwc]

You mean Democrat voting surge?

[Chida]

If they had done the immigration process as laid out by USCIS, they would have been screened for TB and prevented from coming in to the country. But this is what happens when the laws of the land are disregarded.

Edited for nonsense

Edited July 8, 2014 by Chida

[AnimalMother]

Initial report of TB among illegal immigrant minors at Lackland

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/07/immigration-crisis-tuberculosis-spreading-at-camps/

Not for a iron fist response, a lot of them are young kids in a very vulnerable spot but this is a turning point - we're going to control who comes in and stays or not.

This latest crisis makes me think we don't need a pivot to Asia but a pivot to Central America.

I would advocate for a pivot towards America, the United States of...

What's really funny to me is the towns in California that are staging protests over illegals showing up. My guess is they still haven't connected the dots between their vote and their new illegal neighbors. How's that damn change working out for you now that Jose took your job and his 13 kids gave your 1 TB? I should probably stop there...

If they had immigrated legally, they would have been screened for TB and prevented from coming in to the country. But this is what happens when the laws of the land are disregarded.

Laws?! Oh those laws?! Yea, those don't apply. Look, I signed a piece of paper.

[chim richalds]

This is nothing more than a way for 0bama and the libs to redistribute migrants to red states, to believe there's any human interest story here is laughable.

[Prozac]

I live in one of those towns in California that's been in the news lately. It's made up of a lot of veterans and commuting Marines and Sailors. It most certainly is not a Left leaning place. I saw the mayor on CNN the other day and was impressed by what he had to say. The initial plan was to bring something like 500 people in every 72 hours. It would have simply overwhelmed the capabilities of local border patrol, law enforcement, and bed down capabilities. The mayor made a solid case based on facts and the residents were more than willing to offer their support. Unfortunately, much of the rest of the country will want to look at this town as a bunch of heartless, rich white folks who don't care about Central American children. The fact of the matter is we've got to do better as a country (liberal/conservative....doesn't matter) at this immigration thing. It's a complex thing that won't be solved by rhetoric that seems to either advocate for "send 'em all home" or "we're a compassionate country-let 'em all in", depending on which news channel you watch. Clark, I don't necessarily see eye to eye with your stated views on this issue, but you are absolutely right that this is an issue that deserves our attention and best effort to solve right away.

[Buddy Spike]

You mean Democrat voting surge?

I believe they're called Undocumented Democrats

[discus]

Without the Hispanic vote, George W would have never gotten elected. Either time. Just a reminder...

[jrobe]

Without the Hispanic vote, George W would have never gotten elected. Either time. Just a reminder...

You can say that about.any group that voted for him....even the hanging chads

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

[Clark Griswold]

I would advocate for a pivot towards America, the United States of...

No problem with that pivot either, but in relation to what should our be high, much higher on our foreign policy to-do-list is Mexico-Central America-The Caribbean.

They are the nations closest to us, some of our biggest trading partners and have problems that are not so big that we can probably help them solve them or at least effectively reduce them.

...Clark, I don't necessarily see eye to eye with your stated views on this issue, but you are absolutely right that this is an issue that deserves our attention and best effort to solve right away.

Thanks, you're right in the middle of it so you have a better perspective on it than I do. There are illegal immigrants where I am (Southeast) but we are not currently seeing the massive influx that the border states and directly adjoining areas are.

I agree with you that I see the Immigration Issue as more complex and nuanced than what a 10 second soundbite can convey but I see the Border Security issue very simply. Those are two different issues and the fact that people even coming from desperate conditions are able to cross freely a loosely governed country and then either cross clandestinely or merely cross and, present themselves to Law Enforcement, be released into the country they were illegally crossing into with only a court summons order that 80% of them ignore and then establish employment illegally, often use the government social safety net illegally and then agitate to be granted either permanent residency or citizenship with no end in sight for this problem strikes me as national suicide.

No matter how bad it is for these people, letting them remain for any serious length of time only reinforces the risk-reward calculus to attempting to cross.

I have no problem with providing immediate aid (food, shelter, clothing and basic medical care) but what is needed is not a capitulation but a repatriation and aid plan for their countries.

Coming from this as the perspective of a Guardsmen, I can't for any reason (except for the most cynical) see why the Guard (Air and Army) have not been called up to assist the CBP. We have National Response Plans for these types of emergencies / situations and we are trained and equipped to do this, either use the Guard to secure the homeland or not.

[MD]

I agree with you that I see the Immigration Issue as more complex and nuanced than what a 10 second soundbite can convey but I see the Border Security issue very simply. Those are two different issues and the fact that people even coming from desperate conditions are able to cross freely a loosely governed country and then either cross clandestinely or merely cross and, present themselves to Law Enforcement,

We spend a heck of a lot of rescue personnel, assets, and $$$ retrieving many of these people who get themselves in bad situations, in bad areas, whether medical or running into bandits etc, and end up with a lot of risk made for what is completely preventable.

The situation linked below was just the other day. Medical emergency of an illegal separated from his group on top of the Huachuca mountains that took a fairly long search, culminating in a high altitude hoist rescue. When questioned during treatment prior to transfer, the guy admitted to reentering after having been deported and had been living in southern AZ for a few years illegally. These rescues happen far more often than publically reported, and many turn into law enforcement situations during the rescue, as it's often injured felons that require rescue following a fall injury, a gunshot wound, a vehicle accident, etc.

https://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/25970399/border-patrol-rescues-illegal-immigrant-in-huachuca-mountains

Edited July 9, 2014 by MD

[HeloDude]

Without the Hispanic vote, George W would have never gotten elected. Either time. Just a reminder...

That's like saying that without the 9% (whatever it was) of the black vote, W wouldn't have gotten elected. I don't think any reasonable person is suggesting that Hispanic Americans are solidly (in the past, present, or forseeable future) in the GOP's corner.

[Vertigo]

Coming from this as the perspective of a Guardsmen, I can't for any reason (except for the most cynical) see why the Guard (Air and Army) have not been called up to assist the CBP.

$$

Edited July 11, 2014 by Vertigo

[Clark Griswold]

Probably so but as a taxpayer this is the sort of thing I will gladly pay for

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[TreeA10]

$4 to $6 billion to build a wall/fence/moat w/alligators and Obama wants $3.7 billion to deal with the current mess which of course means he'll want more money to deal with future illegals. I'd say the fence is a great bargain and will pay for itself in a couple of years.

[Clark Griswold]

$4 to $6 billion to build a wall/fence/moat w/alligators and Obama wants $3.7 billion to deal with the current mess which of course means he'll want more money to deal with future illegals. I'd say the fence is a great bargain and will pay for itself in a couple of years.

2

4 billion for a secure border is a deal - once the infrastructure was in place the sustaining cost of a Mil-LE mission would probably be half that

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Edited July 11, 2014 by Clark Griswold

[Vertigo]

2

4 billion for a secure border is a deal - once the infrastructure was in place the sustaining cost of a Mil-LE mission would probably be half that

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Which can be defeated with a $200 ladder or $50 in lumber and a few nails for those industrious types.

[Lord Ratner]

Which can be defeated with a $200 ladder or $50 in lumber and a few nails for those industrious types.

False.

[TreeA10]

Any form of defense can be defeated. Moats, the castle wall, the Maginot line, trenches, and even the Great Wall of China all had a purpose and all subsequently were overcome. Any solution will not be 100% effective 100% of the time but I'm willing to bet not just every Jose is going to be willing to schlep lumber, ladders, etc. to some remote desert location to scale the fence. (I can envision liberals saying we need to build a handicap accessible fence with child safety features.) We will slow down and put a serious dent in the current torrent of illegals coming across the border which will certainly save us money in the long run. If a fence isn't effective, why does the White House have one?

[chim richalds]

Beers on me if somebody asks the CSAF in the next town hall why we have a military for a country with no borders? Is an attack on Mexico/Guatemala now an attack on us? I know it's not his policy, I just want to see if anybody cares.

[Clark Griswold]

Which can be defeated with a $200 ladder or $50 in lumber and a few nails for those industrious types.

Not if we build a border security system and not just a tall fence. Here is a good example of what needs to be built in strategic areas where there is high traffic, not along the entire length of the border.

You would need purchase private property and have state property transferred to the Federal govt. and I am sure it would cost a significant amount but it would be worth it. Not to stop legal immigration and legitimate commerce, tourism, etc... but just to fight illegal crossing. Is it going to stop all illegal crossing, no of course not but it will greatly hamper and deter the majority of it, make those who are going to try cross illegally go to rugged terrain where they will either be detected and arrested or stopped by the difficult terrain itself.

If you doubt the effectiveness of a border security system, check out Israel's success with their latest border security system:

Does a Border Fence Work? Check Out the Dramatic Change After Israel Put One Up

Charles Krauthammer has had the most intelligent commentary on this issue(s) lately, he summed up what a majority of Americans want. Secure the border, stop the cycle of illegal immigration, treat the illegal aliens who are here firmly but fairly and be merciful but wise with the children coming from Central America.

Krauthammer: "If Fences Don't Work, Why Is There One Around The White House?"

Charles Krauthammer / Fence the border, close a loophole and enforce immigration law

Not calling you personally out on this Vertigo but people opposed to the idea of serious concerted effort to stop illegal crossing / immigration keep trying to blur the line between legal and illegal immigration, blur and mix the issue of border security with racism towards the mainly Hispanic group of illegal immigrants that cross our Southern border. Border security has nothing to do with legal immigration policy or what is the status of these children coming from Central America.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Clark Griswold

[HeloDude]

Which can be defeated with a $200 ladder or $50 in lumber and a few nails for those industrious types.

What about at the border, they build a 10 foot wall 100 feet into the US and then put land mines in between the border and the fence? You can have all the warning signs you want, still have the normal border access/check points, nothing else changes. Would this curb 99% of the illegal border crossings after a year?

[Prozac]

Smuggling people across the border is big business for the cartels. A fence/wall/border security system may slow them down but it won't stop them. I'm not against more border security, but it should be a part of a broader policy concerning Mexico. I continue to be astonished at the seeming lack of resources we are throwing at what could very nearly be called a civil war right across our border. This conflict has and will continue to affect US citizens. We should be helping the Mexican authorities with whatever they need, to include military assistance, while watching closely to ensure those resources are going to the intended cause. Once again, politics are getting in the way of effective policy in this country and both the WH and Congress need to get their shit together.

[Clark Griswold]

Smuggling people across the border is big business for the cartels. A fence/wall/border security system may slow them down but it won't stop them. I'm not against more border security, but it should be a part of a broader policy concerning Mexico. I continue to be astonished at the seeming lack of resources we are throwing at what could very nearly be called a civil war right across our border. This conflict has and will continue to affect US citizens. We should be helping the Mexican authorities with whatever they need, to include military assistance, while watching closely to ensure those resources are going to the intended cause. Once again, politics are getting in the way of effective policy in this country and both the WH and Congress need to get their shit together.

2 on helping Mexico and I would include Central America in prosecuting their drug war / insurgency

Security - Assistance - Reform

in that order

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Edited July 13, 2014 by Clark Griswold

[Vertigo]

What about at the border, they build a 10 foot wall 100 feet into the US and then put land mines in between the border and the fence? You can have all the warning signs you want, still have the normal border access/check points, nothing else changes. Would this curb 99% of the illegal border crossings after a year?

Not if we build a border security system and not just a tall fence. Here is a good example of what needs to be built in strategic areas where there is high traffic, not along the entire length of the border.

See above as the counter to this XXX Billion dollar system.