panchbarnes Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 No one is saying obtaining an advanced degree is a bad thing, but checking boxes (careerism) is a bad thing. Beating a dead horse ---> The problem is "military leadership" advancement opportunities are/were largely based on junior officers' degree completion date regardless of degree program and academic institution. A degree completed early shows AF loyalty to the "leaders" and you are worthy of O-6 and the 20 yr retirement. This adds nothing to the mission and takes time from your family if you are married. This also takes time away from job focus/mission at a time when the junior officers need job experience/proficiency and with reduced manning/budget. (now it seems like we are just replacing the master degree box w/ volunteering and PT scores) AAD is still required for certain AF jobs (TPS/RAS/ROTC) so go get that degree if you want to be competitive for those opportunities, but Gen Welsh's message is that you should not need a useless degree to make O-4. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olevelo Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Totally agreed on useless degrees. My whole argument was based on someone doing a degree they wanted to do, not for box checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooter Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Anyone know what the difference between a Nav and a homosexual is? A: A homosexual actually has a future in the Air Force... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stract Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 stuff that was already posted on page 2 of this thread a. this was already posted (see post 22 in this exact thread!) b. how about you delete his email address next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olevelo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 ... future in the Air Force... You obviously don't know much about AFSOC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herkasaurus Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 a. this was already posted (see post 22 in this exact thread!) b. how about you delete his email address next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnimalMother Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 You obviously don't know much about AFSOC... You mean how the CC is a "nav?" Yea, that's done wonders for the command over the last few years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olevelo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 You mean how the CC is a "nav?" Yea, that's done wonders for the command over the last few years... No I'm talking about how nav-centric the missions are, especially the gunships, and even more especially the AC-W and AC-J. The only control the pilot has over the weapons is a consent switch (besides putting the airplane in the right place). It's not a traditional nav roll anymore, but that's why the transition to CSO started a long time ago across the board. Not going anywhere anytime soon. In any case, we're completely off topic now. Master's degrees...if you want to get one, get one. If you don't, don't. It's that simple. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17D_guy Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 No I'm talking about how nav-centric the missions are, especially the gunships, and even more especially the AC-W and AC-J. The only control the pilot has over the weapons is a consent switch (besides putting the airplane in the right place). It's not a traditional nav roll anymore, but that's why the transition to CSO started a long time ago across the board. Not going anywhere anytime soon. In any case, we're completely off topic now. Master's degrees...if you want to get one, get one. If you don't, don't. It's that simple. I'm not a Nav and I even I know you're still digging for bed rock here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azimuth Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) a. this was already posted (see post 22 in this exact thread!) b. how about you delete his email address next time. Valid...removed for lack of SA. Surprisingly it's being pushed to AMC already. -----Original Message----- From: MCDEW, DARREN W Gen USAF AMC AMC/CC Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 9:35 PM To: Lots of Generals Subject: What We Value AMC Commanders and Directors, As we ask you to find innovative ways to meet challenges, and we encourage you to stop performing duplicative or unnecessary tasks, Air Force senior leaders are modeling the behavior for us. As you have probably seen or heard from General Welsh, the Air Force is reevaluating officer professional development ensuring we are not unduly burdening Airmen by asking them to execute education in a duplicative manner. General Welsh's note announces a change in policy--and in that mindset--I need all of you to inculcate in the officer ranks. Officers are now being instructed to complete developmental education either in residence or by correspondence, not both. In addition, a master's degree (or higher) is nowno longer necessary for promotion until the colonel selection board for Line of the Air Force officers. These changes underscore that performance matters most. The CSAF has laid out specific new policies to eliminate unnecessary time spent doing things twice when in fact we need folks to focus on mission execution. I and the Chief need you to share this information with your officers, and beyond that to embrace this way of doing business. What weneed right now is bold leadership to work to improve our Air Force. DMc DARREN W. MCDEW, General, USAF Commander, Air Mobility Command Edited June 20, 2014 by Azimuth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrobe Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Mcdew. ...The dude who just released...driving is the most dangerous thing airmen do on a daily basis.....yeah....empty words again Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 "we encourage you to stop performing duplicative or unnecessary tasks" So either this is a new revelation or its just because the boss has said so. "These changes underscore that performance matters most." Copy all, box checking was what used to matter most. "The CSAF has laid out specific new policies to eliminate unnecessary time spent doing things twice when in fact we need folks to focus on mission execution." Glad to see this had to come from the most senior member of the service. "I and the Chief need you to share this information with your officers, and beyond that to embrace this way of doing business." And by you I mean "we the senior leadership" becuase you have been asking for this for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 No I'm talking about how nav-centric the missions are, especially the gunships, and even more especially the AC-W and AC-J. The only control the pilot has over the weapons is a consent switch (besides putting the airplane in the right place). It's not a traditional nav roll anymore, but that's why the transition to CSO started a long time ago across the board. Not going anywhere anytime soon. In any case, we're completely off topic now. Master's degrees...if you want to get one, get one. If you don't, don't. It's that simple. You need to stay in your lane bro. You and one other on BO talk a big game about nav/cso role in the ACW/J and pilots "just driving the bus". That's ing laughable. Regardless of the perceived talent in the back of the plane you still do what you are told...by the pilot...in nearly every phase of flight. Check yourself. If you are part of either program and you fly with an AC that is not working his crew like finger puppets you come find me and I'll fix it quick. PM me for my contact info. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olevelo Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 If you are an AC "working your crew like finger puppets", you obviously don't understand what a crew aircraft is all about, and god help the people who have to fly with you. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheelzUp Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 If you are an AC "working your crew like finger puppets", you obviously don't understand what a crew aircraft is all about, and god help the people who have to fly with you. Shut-up Nav.....unless of course you can contribute something to this forum other than your stereotypical pilot hater garbage. Seriously bro, we all have a role to play. But we are not all created equal, and the world isn't fair. Grow up, and just stop. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherGoodDeal Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 First post.... Navs - we appreciate your contribution ACs - everyone still respects your authoritah Isn't this thread supposed to be about masters degrees? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xaarman Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I am 7 classes complete of a 10 class program I never wanted in the first place. Bah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearedHot Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 If you are an AC "working your crew like finger puppets", you obviously don't understand what a crew aircraft is all about, and god help the people who have to fly with you. You obviously don't know crap about gunships or the A Code. The ACW is a work in progress...as we've seen on the battlefield. The HUD will change some of that and the J will be a completely different as well. All things being equal CSO, I'd rather have the gas. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 First post.... Navs - we appreciate your contribution ACs - everyone still respects your authoritah Isn't this thread supposed to be about masters degrees? This. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickhistory Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) So the current CSAF is one missile field fcuk-up away from being a member of multiple corporate boards and the generations below him down to at least the wing level were raised, and most rewarded by, the system that demanded a master's degree to show your eagerness to follow in their shoes (pun intended). Many of you currently wearing the uniform have seen this scenario once already and it wasn't pretty. ORFs have seen multiple re-makes of the movie. Don't get a master's if you don't want to. But make an educated, informed risk calculation when deciding. Edited June 21, 2014 by brickhistory 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Any chance of getting the unrelated crap moved/deleted from this thread to clear it up and stick to the subject? On topic: We talk a lot about how getting a Masters degree takes away from our ability to be good pilots. Totally false. It's the pointless additional duties that are taking valuable time away from our ability to be good pilots. I simply don't have time to plug away on a masters at work with all the other pointless stuff I'm doing. What the AAD really takes away from is quality family time with the wife and kids. When I'm not being overworked, I ended up spending far too much of my "free" time working towards a degree I never wanted or needed. I'm nearly finished with it..and now I doubt I'll ever finish. If they change the rules on me again, so be it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Anybody know whether how much a master's degree will help me get an interview at the airlines? Serious question. My opinion on the master's degree has changed recently. I do not wish to continue serving in the USAF past my initial commitment and believe that obtaining a masters to increase my chances of getting hired when I am finally able to separate. The ridiculous AU masters is what I do when I SOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElLoco Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 If you are an AC "working your crew like finger puppets", you obviously don't understand what a crew aircraft is all about, and god help the people who have to fly with you. Shhhh...boogers are gathering on your whizwheel...go to work puppet 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Hungus Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Anybody know whether how much a master's degree will help me get an interview at the airlines? Serious question. My opinion on the master's degree has changed recently. I do not wish to continue serving in the USAF past my initial commitment and believe that obtaining a masters to increase my chances of getting hired when I am finally able to separate. The ridiculous AU masters is what I do when I SOF. Read the forums at APC.com. Having a masters degree could help you get hired, but it seems that it's a relatively small piece of the puzzle. Plenty of regional guys without a bachelors degree have been hired, so by no means is it a requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Apologies for the detail gents, a vector check was in order. Break break I can't help but find myself in the mindset that I broke my back and stressed the f$$k out of my family to get a masters just prior to my majors board so why can't the young capt do the same. I rode the Mosley myth of not needing one to my own detriment but these days why risk it? Get it while you can, spend a few hours Saturday morning when you are hungover and space it out. I say get it done regardless you can't trust big blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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