pawnman Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I certainly would not have devoted the time and effort for my online MBA if the AF didn't force me to. Even if the AF told me it was required for promotion, but I was going to pay for it myself, I would have mulled over my options for quite some time before committing myself to $10K + out of pocket for a chance to be slightly more competitive than my peers on a promotion board with an 80%+ selection rate. Further, if the Air Force wanted me to get a real degree, with a real time investment, they would create opportunities for it. Even with TA paying for my online school, I still took the easiest route I could. Why? The Air Force already pulls me away from my family enough with deployments, TDYs, early morning and late night flights/SOF/Top 3, OREs/ORIs, working weekends to prepare for said OREs/ORIs, the list goes on. I wasn't going to give the Air Force even MORE of my time by committing to a program that would require hours every night to complete. I was not about to tell my daughter "Sorry, I haven't seen you in three days, but I can't play right now because I have to write a 20 page thesis". If I want to invest my time, money, and effort in a real master's, having a BS online MBA won't stop that. But it does put the check in the box in the fastest manner possible. If the Air Force values education, they'll stop making it a box to check and invest in actual educational options. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HU&W Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 If I want to invest my time, money, and effort in a real master's, having a BS online MBA won't stop that. But it does put the check in the box in the fastest manner possible. If the Air Force values education, they'll stop making it a box to check and invest in actual educational options. True until this line. Most quality MBA programs will not let you in if you already have an MBA. Getting a crappy MBA burns that bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaw2001 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) If I want to invest my time, money, and effort in a real master's, having a BS online MBA won't stop that. But it does put the check in the box in the fastest manner possible. If the Air Force values education, they'll stop making it a box to check and invest in actual educational options. I agree with the system you suggest, but it is also important to note that under the "quality education" plan, this will perpetuate the military caste system because not everyone will realistically be sent to get a masters. I envision this system would be similar to in-res IDE. I geeked out a bit when I was at SOS and researched this for my class presentation. If I were CSAF of the universe, this is what I would do: 1. Get rid of TA for officers (already done!) 2. Mask masters degree for majors board placing increased emphasis on primary duty performance evals 3. Close Air University to save funds 4. IDE process remains the same except officers do not go to military schools. When you get selected for school, you are sent to a U.S. private/public university to get a real masters degree (we essentially outsource our IDE) 5. Masters/IDE are not masked for Lt Col boards The major benefit of this is officers are sent to real schools that carry real prestige. We get an educated officer force. Officers also get a much-needed/deserved respite and get to intermingle with civilian counterparts to reduce military groupthink/learn private sector best practices. Edited March 20, 2013 by spaw2001 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I agree with the system you suggest, but it is also important to note that under the "quality education" plan, this will perpetuate the military caste system because not everyone will realistically be sent to get a masters. I envision this system would be similar to in-res IDE. I geeked out a bit when I was at SOS and researched this for my class presentation. If I were CSAF of the universe, this is what I would do: 1. Get rid of TA for officers (already done!) 2. Mask masters degree for majors board placing increased emphasis on primary duty performance evals 3. Close Air University to save funds 4. IDE process remains the same except officers do not go to military schools. When you get selected for school, you are sent to a U.S. private/public university to get a real masters degree (we essentially outsource our IDE) 5. Masters/IDE are not masked for Lt Col boards The major benefit of this is officers are sent to real schools that carry real prestige. We get an educated officer force. Officers also get a much-needed/deserved respite and get to intermingle with civilian counterparts to reduce military groupthink/learn private sector best practices. Gee where have I heard this before? Oh right my army buddies I talk too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaw2001 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) Gee where have I heard this before? Oh right my army buddies I talk too. Boom! I have an Army background so feel pretty strongly about it...They do things right on the education front, but not on the deployment front :) If you have time, take a quick look at the "rotating officer faculty at west point" under this link. If you click on their names, you can see what schools they go to. I can't find AMU http://www.usma.edu/...es/Faculty.aspx Edited March 20, 2013 by spaw2001 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Another pilot in my squadron happens to have their significant other in the army and was talking about how the next assignment was actually being sent to school for two years, and how masters wasn't a requirement till Lt Col. All the while they were doing an AMU masters degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHoler Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Another pilot in my squadron happens to have their significant other in the army and was talking about how the next assignment was actually being sent to school for two years, and how masters wasn't a requirement till Lt Col. All the while they were doing an AMU masters degree. Marines are the same...if you need a masters degree, one of your assignments will be to Naval Postgraduate School for two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muscle2002 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Boom! I have an Army background so feel pretty strongly about it...They do things right on the education front, but not on the deployment front :) If you have time, take a quick look at the "rotating officer faculty at west point" under this link. If you click on their names, you can see what schools they go to. I can't find AMU http://www.usma.edu/...es/Faculty.aspx The same holds true for USAFA and USNA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsplayr Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Apparently an amendment to the Senate's version of the continuing resolution to fund the government past March 27th reinstates TA for all military members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Apparently an amendment to the Senate's version of the continuing resolution to fund the government past March 27th reinstates TA for all military members. 20 Trillion, here we come!! At least our military members will have the security of their University of Maryland University College University Online University degree to fall back on if they ever find themselves out in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HercDude Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Close. It's Maryland Educational College University of Maryland Online University, or MECUMOnU 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaw2001 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 The same holds true for USAFA and USNA. Actually, not true. For Usafa, the academy greatly limits funds available for rotating faculty to get their degree before coming to teach. Last I checked, it was around $9,000 per year to get your masters (btw, you are not allowed to supplement the rest with GI bill or personal funds). This virtually eliminates all elite schools (unless they are willing to give massive scholarships). West Point, on the other hand, tells its incoming teachers to apply to and go to the best schools possible. There is a memo on usma.edu that I have to dig for. Totally different mentality between the two services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muscle2002 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Actually, not true. For Usafa, the academy greatly limits funds available for rotating faculty to get their degree before coming to teach. Last I checked, it was around $9,000 per year to get your masters (btw, you are not allowed to supplement the rest with GI bill or personal funds). This virtually eliminates all elite schools (unless they are willing to give massive scholarships). West Point, on the other hand, tells its incoming teachers to apply to and go to the best schools possible. There is a memo on usma.edu that I have to dig for. Totally different mentality between the two services. USAFA does not prevent cadets or officers from applying to top schools; it was encouraged when I went through, but you're right in that funds are limited. Many schools will supplement the $9K or whatever it is based on the academic acumen of the student and the unique perspective he/she brings as a military member. You asserted that you won't find AMU on any of the academic vitae of the USMA faculty (although I found Troy University)...the same holds true for USAFA instructors/professors. They actually require that they hold a graduate degree in the same field for which they instruct. This requirement precludes receiving an underwater basket weaving degree from AMU/ERAU/TUI. Edited March 21, 2013 by Muscle2002 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 This virtually eliminates all elite schools (unless they are willing to give massive scholarships). My wife and I are dealing with this right now. I am PCSing to Virginia in June, and she was hired to be an instructor at USAFA after getting her masters. The Academy has approved her to go to a civilian school, however she has to find 100% funding for tuition. She has applied to pretty much every graduate assistant program at the school, but no luck so far. We have offered to pay out of pocket for the degree, offered to use GI Bill...no luck. Has to be funding from the school or she has to go to AFIT. No offense to AFIT, but I think the cadets would benefit a lot more if their instructors had masters degrees from...well, real schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaw2001 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 USAFA does not prevent cadets or officers from applying to top schools; it was encouraged when I went through, but you're right in that funds are limited. Many schools will supplement the $9K or whatever it is based on the academic acumen of the student and the unique perspective he/she brings as a military member. You asserted that you won't find AMU on any of the academic vitae of the USMA faculty (although I found Troy University)...the same holds true for USAFA instructors/professors. They actually require that they hold a graduate degree in the same field for which they instruct. This requirement precludes receiving an underwater basket weaving degree from AMU/ERAU/TUI. Ah yes. We were talking past each other. You are right, rotating faculty in the management department, for instance have to have a AACSB internationally accredited masters if they want to be direct-hired (reputable MBA programs have this while AMU is regionally accredited). If officers want USAFA to send them to get a degree first before reporting to a faculty assignent, then that was the $9K I was talking about. Going to get a masters immediately after graduation is an entirely different program, and yes, better schools are available. USAFA has a deal with MIT, for example, to send top cadets in the department to get a masters there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 True until this line. Most quality MBA programs will not let you in if you already have an MBA. Getting a crappy MBA burns that bridge. I wouldn't get another MBA. I went the MBA route because my undergrad was business, and the MBA covered a LOT of the same ground, which made it easier. I'm pretty sure having an MBA wouldn't stop me from getting a Master's in some other subject, were I so inclined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HU&W Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I wouldn't get another MBA. I went the MBA route because my undergrad was business, and the MBA covered a LOT of the same ground, which made it easier. I'm pretty sure having an MBA wouldn't stop me from getting a Master's in some other subject, were I so inclined. Fair enough. Just something to keep in the crosscheck. I've seen a few people get box checker MBA's on AD with the intent of springboarding their civilian career by getting a 'real' MBA when they get out. Not a bad plan, but I try to steer folks to other box checker degrees if their after-AD plans include an MBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFranchise Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Congress to the Pentagon "Unstable, Go Around" http://www.stripes.com/news/congress-passes-bill-to-force-reinstatement-of-tuition-assistance-1.212706 Edited March 21, 2013 by TheFranchise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky_king Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 So, if TA is back, what gets cut to make up the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy pilgrim Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 So, if TA is back, what gets cut to make up the difference? Flying hours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoopyeast Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Flying hours! I wish I were joking, but there has been more bitching around the squadron about TA being cut rather than the one local flight a week we get. But hey, that masters from BFU will probably help during the next IFE! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky_king Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Part of me wants to suggest ridiculous ways to save money just to see what happens. Suggestion #1: Have a tug tow the airplane to the approach end of the runway before starting engines to save jet fuel costs and airframe hours. A tug can be pre-positioned for landing as well. Suggestion #2: Require everything being printed to be set to 4 pages per sheet, double sided. 87.% paper usage reduction! Suggestion #3: Allow up to 25% of RAP requirements to be accomplished via CBT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HU&W Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Suggestion #1: Have a tug tow the airplane to the approach end of the runway before starting engines to save jet fuel costs and airframe hours. A tug can be pre-positioned for landing as well. Why bother with a tug when you can hand push it out. That way you save money on the tug and the taxi while getting PT at the same time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olevelo Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Suggestion #2: Require everything being printed to be set to 4 pages per sheet, double sided. 87.% paper usage reduction! We've already been ordered to implement this NLT 1 April. And report any other ideas like turning computers off at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 And report any other ideas like turning computers off at night. NOOOOOO you can't do that the entire AF network system would crash or skynet would take over according to the Comm weenies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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