4 hours ago, nunya said:

You said "children." So that means you have more than one? And I'm sure you love each one in their own way. They're very similar, but one's a little shorter than the other? They're different, but both very special to you, and there's no way you could choose one over the other and having multiple enriches your life. I know I could never choose just one. Child, that is. Of course.

Well right now the house is on fire and I need to decide which one to save first...

13 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Well right now the house is on fire and I need to decide which one to save first...

You got two arms and two hands, right? Both at the same time, obviously!

Of course we're zero help, but if I had to pick one child, er, MP5, it'd be the shorter one. 9mm isn't going to need the longer barrel. The increase is minimal and I'd rather save the several inches for the suppressor and keep it more compact.

I think Zenith has a couple shorties. 4 and 5 or something. Between those, I would take the longer 5", but not the 8-9" options.

Edited Wednesday at 03:26 PM2 days by nunya

Either a SD clone (hide the suppressor attachment under the handguard)

OR.. Make it look like the Iranian embassy SAS guns.

On 1/19/2026 at 10:45 PM, Lord Ratner said:

MP5 or MP5K? Either will be a clone, but I am having more trouble with this decision than I had naming my children.

Either will be suppressed.

I don't care for the MP5K. Yes the stock extends but it feel like a front heavy pistol until you fully extend.

MP5SD for the win. The quietest gun I've ever shot which is a huge consideration if you are using this for home defense. The MP5 and MP5K are quiet up close but if you shoot beyond 20' feet the rounds will go supersonic and greatly increase the noise signature.

Break Break - On day 12 of waiting for my electronic Form 4s to clear...so much for a faster process.

38 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

The MP5 and MP5K are quiet up close but if you shoot beyond 20' feet the rounds will go supersonic and greatly increase the noise signature.

What do you mean by this? Rounds don't accelerate once they leave the barrel. Are you saying if you use a lighter ammo for the longer range?

I'm thinking about an FRT because I think the MP5 platform is one of the most obvious choices for an FRT. So this will be a range toy, since there's no universe where I use an FRT for home defense. My biggest concern with the MP5 versus the mp5k is that the MP5 ends up being remarkably similar to the MCX Rattler. As I grow my collection I'm trying to bring in guns that offer a different shooting experience, not just a different name or caliber.

I'm also very average sized (that's what she said!), so the mp5k doesn't present the same ergonomics for me as it does for someone with a bigger build and gorilla hands. 😂🤣

I think with the vertical foregrip and a shorty suppressor, the mp5k will be a hoot to hand to someone at the range with a 30 round magazine of 9 mm. And I won't have to cry as I listen to the money flying out of the barrel at FRT speeds.

This video does a better job of showing it, I've seen it in person. Note when he shoots short and the rounds hit the dirt you don't get the supersonic "crack" but when he shoots the longer range target the bullet with the MP5 and the MP5K both allow the bullet to accelerate supersonic and thus a much louder noise signature. With the MP5SD 115 and 124 grain stay subsonic and the noise signature is GREATLY reduced. If you are using an FRT and this is a range toy you probably don't care. I use the SD and my MPX for home defense and sound is a big issue.

That's not the physics at play. The bullet is its fastest at the muzzle. The difference is the SD has a ported barrel to bleed gas and energy so it makes the 115s subsonic at the muzzle. My Thompson Machine 10-22 integrally suppressed barrel is the same way. The distance of the target doesn't matter.

You don't hear the crack of the 115s into the dirt from the other two simply because the pressure wave doesn't get back to your ear. It's still there.

Porting clearly visible here to make 115s subsonic:

Edited Wednesday at 08:54 PM1 day by nunya

5 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

if you shoot beyond 20' feet the rounds will go supersonic and greatly increase the noise signature.

Sub rounds for the win…

5 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

As I grow my collection I'm trying to bring in guns that offer a different shooting experience, not just a different name or caliber

If you’re looking for a smile-inducing range toy, consider a scorpion evo. I have a SBR’d one with only minor upgrades from factory, shoot 147gr subs out of it, suppressed…obviously. It is a shitload of fun, relatively cheap, and the primary gun every friend/kid I have over to shoot wants to come back to. Seriously, they shoot a $2.5K AR and then ask if they can shoot the scorpion again, ha! Seriously consider it and save a lot of money over buying a true MP5 for the same end result.

12 hours ago, brabus said:

Sub rounds for the win…

My only concern with subs (which I have not yet tried), do they still have enough gun gas to reliably cycle the weapon.

Break break - what are others using for home defense and why?

300BO with subs and suppressor. Ballistically similar to 45ACP at short range (superior at longer ranges) with less recoil than a blowback action. Hopefully allow me to talk to my wife and kids and cops immediately afterwards without temporary or permanent hearing damage.

Edited yesterday at 01:44 PM1 day by nunya

13 hours ago, brabus said:

If you’re looking for a smile-inducing range toy, consider a scorpion evo. I have a SBR’d one with only minor upgrades from factory, shoot 147gr subs out of it, suppressed…obviously. It is a shitload of fun, relatively cheap, and the primary gun every friend/kid I have over to shoot wants to come back to. Seriously, they shoot a $2.5K AR and then ask if they can shoot the scorpion again, ha! Seriously consider it and save a lot of money over buying a true MP5 for the same end result.

My buddy has one of those. Great gun.

With this particular purchase the focus is on the frt, and what gun will be the most fun with it. I don't consider the FRT to be anything but a toy for lots of manufacturing and legal reasons.

Truth be told, this is my second choice. The ultimate gun for an frt would be a Thompson 45, but I am yet unaware of anyone making that adaptation. It's got a bit of a hard on just thinking it's that gun with an frt and a drum mag 😂🤣.

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

My only concern with subs (which I have not yet tried), do they still have enough gun gas to reliably cycle the weapon.

Depends on The gun. On some you have to swap out the spring, but on others like the MCX rattler and a lot of the newer guns, you'll have a valve that can be adjusted at the front of the gun to change the gas pressure. Suppressors are great, but you're missing out if you haven't been using subs.

I have not had an issue with cycling on my AR with 300BO. The issue with subs for home defense is the hollow point functioning properly. A higher end bullet will really help with that, but you just can't go buy whatever no-name brand hollow point sub and assume it'll work properly. I bought some cheap ones during the ammo scarcity a few years ago because that was all I could find. I shot a pig and it ran off and was never recovered with virtually no blood at all so I'm 99% sure the bullet never opened. I've shot and tracked a lot of animals and this trail never had any hope at all. Only a couple specks at the impact site. If that were a person, there's a pretty good chance they'd still be in the fight after that one hit.

Of course, you can and should keep shooting without pause until the person is on the ground and that'll help mitigate the bullet not doing quite as much damage as it should if it doesn't function.

Even after experiencing that bullet failure, a suppressed 300BO AR would still be my first choice for home defense.

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

Break break - what are others using for home defense and why?

First line of defense is a pump action shotgun, unchambered. I know some people are very paranoid about announcing themselves, but to me it's far more likely that the person in my house is going to be one of my kids or someone I know who's being dumb, and I don't want to shoot that person. Hearing a shotgun rack will cause 99% of people to either announce who they are or start running if they shouldn't be there.

If it happens to be that 1%, buckshot is a very persuasive crime deterrent.

1 hour ago, nunya said:

300BO with subs and suppressor. Ballistically similar to 45ACP at short range (superior at longer ranges) with less recoil than a blowback action. Hopefully allow me to talk to my wife and kids and cops immediately afterwards without temporary or permanent hearing damage.

The body has a fascinating response in fight or flight situations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_exclusion

In times of high stress, caused by both visual and auditory triggers, a person's “fight or flight” response can be triggered as they descend into a state of hyper-arousal. This is an evolutionary response involving the sympathetic nervous system that is triggered as a reaction to a perceived threat to the individual's life to help increase the chances of survival. The adrenal gland is alerted and as a result, adrenaline is released into the individual's bloodstream. This causes a number of physiological changes like increased heart rate, increased breathing and hyperfocus on the threat at hand.^[4] Additionally, cortisol is released from the adrenal glands which can provide the body with more energy in the short term. Contrastingly, over longer periods of time cortisol can obstruct thought processes, especially in high-emotion environments.

As a part of this, the processing of auditory information can be stopped completely, causing temporary hearing loss.

Right, but if my ears aren't physically damaged, I have a better chance of bouncing back quickly. I've certainly experienced the auditory exclusion while hunting and overseas. I can't do a lot in the moment to stop that, but I can avoid breaking my tiny ear hairs. The ones on the inside. Not the outside.

3 hours ago, uhhello said:

The body has a fascinating response in fight or flight situations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_exclusion

There is another part of the response that in my opinion is more important than the impact on hearing....fine motor skills.
"The fight-or-flight response significantly impairs fine motor skills by redirecting blood and resources to large muscles for immediate survival, reducing blood flow to extremities, and shifting cognitive focus from complex tasks (like writing or precise movements) to basic survival, leading to clumsiness, poor dexterity, and decreased accuracy in fine motor tasks like handwriting or detailed work, especially as heart rate increases." It WILL impact your accuracy...the best way to overcome is through training. Another reason I prefer a weapons with more ammunition.

21 minutes ago, nunya said:

Right, but if my ears aren't physically damaged, I have a better chance of bouncing back quickly. I've certainly experienced the auditory exclusion while hunting and overseas. I can't do a lot in the moment to stop that, but I can avoid breaking my tiny ear hairs. The ones on the inside. Not the outside.

I get it. I just find the bodies response to be amazing. The scenario you're talking about (home invasion) has a miniscule chance of happening to you depending on where you live. People base a lot of their thinking

20 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

There is another part of the response that in my opinion is more important than the impact on hearing....fine motor skills.
"The fight-or-flight response significantly impairs fine motor skills by redirecting blood and resources to large muscles for immediate survival, reducing blood flow to extremities, and shifting cognitive focus from complex tasks (like writing or precise movements) to basic survival, leading to clumsiness, poor dexterity, and decreased accuracy in fine motor tasks like handwriting or detailed work, especially as heart rate increases." It WILL impact your accuracy...the best way to overcome is through training. Another reason I prefer a weapons with more ammunition.

Why I love competition shooting. Adding movement and stress REALLY affects your shooting ability. Static line shooting does very little for your skill set once you have a basic level of familiarity with whatever platform your using.

14 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

With this particular purchase the focus is on the frt, and what gun will be the most fun with it

My scorpion is what I want to put a FRT on, though I haven’t seen one for it yet. If I’m going to waste a shitload of ammo, might as well be 9mm.

15 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

My only concern with subs (which I have not yet tried), do they still have enough gun gas to reliably cycle the weapon.

Specific load, springs, and if a gas gun, then also gas system length and gas block settings, all factor into functional reliability. If you’re talking your MP5 (not a gas gun), then I’m guessing it’ll work great with subs, but wouldn’t be crazy that you may have to try a few different loads to find one that works well.

This is a good reason to reload - fine tune your ammo to exactly what a specific gun likes. Trust me, just take a trip down that rabbit hole!

14 hours ago, Smokin said:

A higher end bullet will really help with that, but you just can't go buy whatever no-name brand hollow point sub and assume it'll work properly.

That’s key right there. Regardless of caliber or gun, if the purpose is to kill, never cheap out on ammo. And I will also never rely on reloads for self-defense.

15 hours ago, uhhello said:

The scenario you're talking about (home invasion) has a miniscule chance of happening to you depending on where you live. People base a lot of their thinking

So you are saying there is a chance....I used to think that it would never happen, I live in a nice place, very low crime, one or two murders a year that are almost always domestic...until six months ago when we had a home invasion robbery about a mile away. I would rather prepare for the worst and be wrong than have it happen and be unprepared so I invested a little time and effort to at least think about it.

Also, as we posted in another thread my area has an increased awareness for retired SOF folks...there have been other indicators outside the memo released by SOCOM a few months back. Especially when we were still in Afghanistan and Iraq. We had individual crew dogs and their families get calls at home from overseas...the caller would state the name and address of said crew dog followed by a threat.

20 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

First line of defense is a pump action shotgun, unchambered. I know some people are very paranoid about announcing themselves, but to me it's far more likely that the person in my house is going to be one of my kids or someone I know who's being dumb, and I don't want to shoot that person. Hearing a shotgun rack will cause 99% of people to either announce who they are or start running if they shouldn't be there.

If it happens to be that 1%, buckshot is a very persuasive crime deterrent.

I've gone back and forth on the shotgun...yes they hit hard but throwing 8 large pellets around the house has both good and bad consequences. The arrangement of my house puts my son's room on the opposite side of the house but inline with the interior exit to my room (I also have a door out to the pool deck). I have of all thinking a Beretta M-9 (I can hear the laughs), in a fingerprint lockbox under my bed. I can roll out of bed and open the box within .69 seconds. I have big hands and the M-9 is a big gun, so easy for me to grip. For some reason I can drive nails with that gun....drives me nuts but I am more accurate with that than any of my other pistols. Maybe all that USAF training paid off?

My son is off in college now so with just my wife and I the calculus changes. From there I am five steps to my closet and a Beretta A300 which holds 9 in the tub and one in the chamber plus six in an attachment. The bandolier is mostly a joke, my wife bought it for me so I have it hanging with the A300. I will likely keep my new 5.7x28 with an integrated can in the hit bag if the ATF ever fixes the new system (14 days and counting).

If I make to my office and my big safe then it is on like Donkey Kong.

3 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

I've gone back and forth on the shotgun...yes they hit hard but throwing 8 large pellets around the house has both good and bad consequences.

It's a valid consideration. Granted, the pellets aren't going to spread that much, and they're going to go in the direction you're pointing it at, so I don't think it's a massive collateral risk increase compared to rifles and pistols, but it's definitely a real risk.

I think I would still grab the shotgun first and rack it loudly, to make sure the threat is transmitted. At that point I can grab another option sitting next to it, and hand the boom stick to my wife.

What did you get in 5.7? I got that wretched PR57 from Keltec and love it, so now I have to start looking at more 5.7 options. The PSA uzi-looking gun they are developing sure looks fun.

Ratner, a thought / suggestion related to using a pump. Make sure you add a bit of time pressure/stress into your training routine with that thing. The first three gun match I tried, I was using an 870. Short stroking the action under pressure is a thing.

3 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

It's a valid consideration. Granted, the pellets aren't going to spread that much, and they're going to go in the direction you're pointing it at, so I don't think it's a massive collateral risk increase compared to rifles and pistols, but it's definitely a real risk.

I think I would still grab the shotgun first and rack it loudly, to make sure the threat is transmitted. At that point I can grab another option sitting next to it, and hand the boom stick to my wife.

What did you get in 5.7? I got that wretched PR57 from Keltec and love it, so now I have to start looking at more 5.7 options. The PSA uzi-looking gun they are developing sure looks fun.

I bought a Ruger PC Carbine 5.7 a couple years ago and it’s an absolute blast to shoot. Probably not the most practical gun I own but sure is fun.