While I would welcome the "common sense compromise" of trading bumpfire stocks for repeal of the Hughes Amendment and re-opening the NFA registry, there are real problems with the NFA, too...especially for military members who move state-to-state every few years and have to re-elicit CLEO approval to keep their possessions.

We need to be looking at repeal/replace of the NFA, too, if we are going to kick that stone.  Not that the rabid gun control people (who aren't interested in giving any ground on these "compromises") would be interested in that, anyway.

I don't care about using bumpfire stocks, either -- not my cup of tea -- but no f'ing way I'm going to support some new restriction based on their use in *one* illegal event.  We don't make policy that curbs Constitutional protections based on outliers and singular freak events.

Edited October 4, 20178 yr by Hacker

I don't care about using bumpfire stocks, either -- not my cup of tea -- but no f'ing way I'm going to support some new restriction based on their use in *one* illegal event.  We don't make policy that curbs Constitutional protections based on outliers and singular freak events.

Kimmel was crying on tv this time, it's serious!

Can't believe that's the 2 seconds I saw mistakenly flipping channels.

Agree on the need for a pragmatic approach vs reactionary moves.

19 hours ago, Hacker said:

While I would welcome the "common sense compromise" of trading bumpfire stocks for repeal of the Hughes Amendment and re-opening the NFA registry, there are real problems with the NFA, too...especially for military members who move state-to-state every few years and have to re-elicit CLEO approval to keep their possessions.

We need to be looking at repeal/replace of the NFA, too, if we are going to kick that stone.  Not that the rabid gun control people (who aren't interested in giving any ground on these "compromises") would be interested in that, anyway.

I don't care about using bumpfire stocks, either -- not my cup of tea -- but no f'ing way I'm going to support some new restriction based on their use in *one* illegal event.  We don't make policy that curbs Constitutional protections based on outliers and singular freak events.

 

My mistake - didn't mean to post in this thread in addition to the WTF thread where we've been having this discussion. 

To your bolded comment above - do you have any NFA items? Because I do and that's not how this works.  Form 4 used to require CLEO approval for individuals but not for trusts. The requirements changed in July 2016 to require every form 4 to NOTIFY CLEO. 2 key points - now even if a trust owns the item you have to notify and second that individuals no longer require approval, just notification.

For PCS you don't file a Form 4, you file a Form 5320.20 to transport NFA items across state lines. The 5320.20 takes 4-6 weeks to get back and costs you a stamp and 10 minutes to fill out. The Form 4 costs you $200 and 6-9 months (really optimistic wait time) to get back.

 

Otherwise I agree with everything you said. 

Good words.  I retired in '15, so I haven't dealt with a move under that system (and I do not have a trust).

That being said...a new tax stamp every move is BS itself...so still issues to solve for military folks.

Edited October 5, 20178 yr by Hacker

17 hours ago, Hacker said:

Good words.  I retired in '15, so I haven't dealt with a move under that system (and I do not have a trust).

That being said...a new tax stamp every move is BS itself...so still issues to solve for military folks.

Poor choice of words on my part. The $200 tax stamp is a one time thing. The stamp I was referring to is a postage stamp for mailing the 5320.20 through USPS....what are they, 69 cents these days?  While your point is valid, the consequence is insignificant.

Is anyone else a little concerned about the vague language describing the restrictions in HR 3999?  The way it's written seems that it could be construed to prohibit any aftermarket part that improves the functionality, if it improves rate of fire, of any semiauto rifle.  This isn't just bump stocks and gat cranks.  Lots of things can improve your rate of fire.

10 hours ago, HU&W said:

Is anyone else a little concerned about the vague language describing the restrictions in HR 3999?  The way it's written seems that it could be construed to prohibit any aftermarket part that improves the functionality, if it improves rate of fire, of any semiauto rifle.  This isn't just bump stocks and gat cranks.  Lots of things can improve your rate of fire.

Absolutely.  A decent aftermarket trigger group, individual trigger springs, lighter buffer tube/recoil springs, etc.  This article nails it:  https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/daniel-zimmerman/reader-weve-painted-corner-bump-fire-regulation-gun-control/

TLDR:  If the ATF is charged with following the letter of the law, the law means nothing since the only means of mechanically increasing the rate of fire is to decrease the time required for the gas to cycle the bolt.  That's obviously not the intent.  If the ATF follows the intent of the law, the law is insanely broad; it doesn't mention bump-fire stocks by name, and opens the door to all manner of stupid regulations.  

GOP:  grow a goddamn spine, half a brain, and stop pandering to the left/emotional hysteria with useless/bullshit/unconstitutional laws that have zero effect on an evil person's ability to be evil.  

Just brought this home today.  I’d never heard of B&T until recently, did some online digging and found good reviews.  I was in the market for something my daughter can easily shoulder and shoot so I grabbed this. Very nice engineering, I’m impressed.

 

Edited October 31, 20178 yr by tac airlifter

Gorgeous

On 10/31/2017 at 5:17 AM, tac airlifter said:

Just brought this home today.  I’d never heard of B&T until recently, did some online digging and found good reviews.  I was in the market for something my daughter can easily shoulder and shoot so I grabbed this. Very nice engineering, I’m impressed.

 

Any more details?  Assuming 9MM?  Cost? Their website is HORRIBLE.

23 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

Any more details?  Assuming 9MM?  Cost? Their website is HORRIBLE.

Here’s a better review than I can write.

yes I bought a 9mm, although the ACP also comes in 45.  It was just under 2k.  Magazines are stupid expensive so I only have a few at the moment.

Cost and cost of mags are my negatives.  Everything else is a positive.  Match trigger, probably the best engineering I’ve seen on the internals of a firearm, shoots great on every kind of ammo I could find.  I think this will replace my handgun for HD.  Has AR irons on at the moment instead of the red dot because I’m toying with set ups.

I prefer this to every other PCC I’ve shot, including P90, MP5, EVO, UMP, various AR 9mm, etc.  I think the MP7 reigns supreme as the easiest shooting sub gun around, but those aren’t available for purchase so it’s moot.

bottom line, if you want a compact PCC, you won’t find a better one.  If you’re around VA or FL and want to shoot it, or anything else, PM me.  Cheers.

20 minutes ago, Justonethought said:

Something your daughter can shoulder and shoot?  Are you a Nonner in disguise?

She is unable to shoot my ARs.  9mm is an easier caliber for her.  What exactly are you confused about?

10 minutes ago, Justonethought said:

Got it, you are a nonner.

Care to explain your logic?

@Justonethought is like so operator guys...he's operator AF.

You are so badass.  Your badassness makes me insecure.  I want to be like you when I grow up.

1 hour ago, Justonethought said:

operator...pew pew- or I could be driving a lame ass rpa

Is this the thread about snowflake whippersnappers? 

 

So much for intellectually honest discussions, huh?

Sure do.  I am an operator and on the eve of a horrific shooting in OUR country the last thing I give a shit about is some bullshit 9mm.

Its fascinating, the people that come out of the woodwork to start politicizing tragedies just hours after they occur. This is a frequent occurrence on Reddit and other communities but very bizarre to see it here. It's important to keep an eye out for hidden agendas as we wrestle with the implications of what just happened

6 hours ago, Justonethought said:

Sure do.  I am an operator and on the eve of a horrific shooting in OUR country the last thing I give a shit about is some bullshit 9mm.

If you don’t care to read about guns, don’t open the gun thread.  

If you want to talk politics do so in one of the many thread venues which cater to that.

 

1 hour ago, Justonethought said:

Don't talk about gun regulation in a thread about guns?  I don't follow your logic.

Ha, you got triggered by a picture of a gun.

Anyway, since you've already referenced the tragic shooting in Texas (and even commented on that thread), I think he's suggesting the other thread might be a more directed place to voice your opinion. Hell, you can even open up a new thread.. God knows those with enough foresight already have popcorn in hand waiting for your next post, wherever it falls.

Edited November 6, 20178 yr by tk1313

On 11/5/2017 at 7:04 PM, Justonethought said:

Sure do.  I am an operator and on the eve of a horrific shooting in OUR country the last thing I give a shit about is some bullshit 9mm.

I think we can get behind a man teaching his daughter how to shoot, especially with a well engineered firearm.

Personally, the MP5K clone was just too iconic to pass up.  Suppressed Z5P with the B&T style brace is the new range toy.  :)

Edited November 7, 20178 yr by raimius

Just brought this home today.  I’d never heard of B&T until recently, did some online digging and found good reviews.  I was in the market for something my daughter can easily shoulder and shoot so I grabbed this. Very nice engineering, I’m impressed.
 

Is this technically a pistol and did you have to do anything special when purchasing it?

It’s a pistol, hence the right folding SB “arm brace.”  But shouldering is legal, and the brace is stiff enough for moderate use.  That said, I’m planning to SBR this in due time.

raimius, is that a zenith?  Looks great!  How is the suppressor mounted?  Looks forward of the tri-lug.

Edited November 8, 20178 yr by tac airlifter

On 11/5/2017 at 8:04 PM, Justonethought said:

Sure do.  I am an operator...

you're a fucking tool. gtfo

10 hours ago, Justonethought said:

So someone posts a contrarian view and they are a tool and now need mod approval to post.  Again, this site is becoming an echo chamber.  This guy clearly should not have had acces to any weapon, let alone an AR.  It's as simple as that.

If he was considered such a danger to society before the shooting then why wasn't he in prison?  Gun laws work as well as drug laws, so if society does not believe person X should have 'access' to Y (i.e. ability to obtain Y, whether legally or illegally) then due process should be used to put person X in prison until they are no longer a threat to society.