Not going to UPT...will I get kicked out?

[HercDude]

In the 3 & 1/2 years I was a T-6 IP, I had one student wash out after making it to Phase 3 (T-1 guy who went to multiple 89s in Phase II). I only remember hearing of 3 people wash out of T-1s, and none from -38s. So sample of one it sounds like about 1 person/yr. at each base.

You could not be reclassified to another rated career if you academic average was below ~90%, which usually eliminated guys washing out for poor performance/attitude, but did allow for guys who just couldn't figure out how to land or fly in the pattern.

[Fuzz]

Good info, escapism. Thanks.

How often do pilots washout from T-1s? Pretty rare, I'd assume?

Last year at KEND there were a bunch of studs that went to CR boards. Had one guy in my class go and another one scrape his way out of going. The one that went did get retained, and had went as a result of hooking his Nav check ride and only had 12 more rides to finish the program.

[Snooter]

Sounds like the Air Force machine is chugging away.

Getting the thread back on track, I've had my fair share of days/flights where I sat down with a nice scotch and contemplated whether wearing these wings was the right move for me. But then again as was alluded to in an earlier post, I still get the (Maverick on the motorcycle feeling) when I see a jet on short final or sling a load successfully onto DZ and think to myself, "f**k yeah..."

Unfortunately there will be days where "it's just another job" and then there will be days where you can't believe you're getting paid for what you do. I applaud the introspective nature with which you (or any stud) consider turning in your wings before you've earned them, but don't think it will be all rainbows and unicorns on the other side...

Whatever you decide to do with your life remember what Lance Armstrong said (with edits)

You know, once I was thinking about quitting when I was diagnosed with brain, lung and testicular cancer, all at the same time. But with the love and support of my friends and family (and a shitload of roids), I got back on the bike and I won the Tour de France five (seven) times in a row (all redacted). But I'm sure you have a good reason to quit. So what are you dying from that's keeping you from the finals?

Then reference my signature below...

[LookieRookie]

Good info, escapism. Thanks.

How often do pilots washout from T-1s? Pretty rare, I'd assume?

CBM had a dude wash out of 38s this year. It was for tac form and few other things. He's now doing the RPA pilot course.

[guineapigfury]

CBM had a dude wash out of 38s this year. It was for tac form and few other things. He's now doing the RPA pilot course.

We lost a dude in T-1s. Couldn't land the thing, which isn't that hard to land. He was the only one I knew about in my 2 years at Vance. We've got a couple of UPT washouts in my current squadron (MQ-9s) and they're doing well. To bring this back on topic, nether of them were SIEs.

[whodat]

I've known of several dudes to 'intentional' wash out to avoid declaring SIE on the paperwork.

[guineapigfury]

I've known of several dudes to 'intentional' wash out to avoid declaring SIE on the paperwork.

Damn those unintended consequences. If the USAF let people SIE without incurring a ridiculous bill (payback USAFA or ROTC), they wouldn't be incentivized to waste a bunch of time and JP8 on rides they know they're going to hook. Oh well, at least we get to look tough on quitters.

[so.it.goes]

Unfortunately there will be days where "it's just another job" and then there will be days where you can't believe you're getting paid for what you do. I applaud the introspective nature with which you (or any stud) consider turning in your wings before you've earned them, but don't think it will be all rainbows and unicorns on the other side.

This I don't get. I had an IP who actually said he wanted to get out and "do the 9-5 job thing"... He said this because he went from ROTC/Academy straight to UPT, straight to AETC.

I've worked the civilian "9-5", and it ######ing sucks... I think we as humans are innately prone to the Grass-is-Greener mentality, and, in the case of AF aviators, we may need to remind ourselves that, in the scope of all existing jobs available, we have a good thing going for us.

[mp5g]

This I don't get. I had an IP who actually said he wanted to get out and "do the 9-5 job thing"... He said this because he went from ROTC/Academy straight to UPT, straight to AETC.

I've worked the civilian "9-5", and it ######ing sucks... I think we as humans are innately prone to the Grass-is-Greener mentality, and, in the case of AF aviators, we may need to remind ourselves that, in the scope of all existing jobs available, we have a good thing going for us.

Big 2.

[Dupe]

This I don't get. I had an IP who actually said he wanted to get out and "do the 9-5 job thing"... He said this because he went from ROTC/Academy straight to UPT, straight to AETC.

I've worked the civilian "9-5", and it ######ing sucks... I think we as humans are innately prone to the Grass-is-Greener mentality, and, in the case of AF aviators, we may need to remind ourselves that, in the scope of all existing jobs available, we have a good thing going for us.

I essentially have a 9-5 job as a program manager in AFMC after flying fighters for 10 years. To say that the 9-5 thing blows is an understatement. My wife regularly asks "Are you thinking about hurting yourself?"

[so.it.goes]

This I don't get. I had an IP who actually said he wanted to get out and "do the 9-5 job thing"... He said this because he went from ROTC/Academy straight to UPT, straight to AETC.

I've worked the civilian "9-5", and it ######ing sucks... I think we as humans are innately prone to the Grass-is-Greener mentality, and, in the case of AF aviators, we may need to remind ourselves that, in the scope of all existing jobs available, we have a good thing going for us.

I essentially have a 9-5 job as a program manager in AFMC after flying fighters for 10 years. To say that the 9-5 thing blows is an understatement. My wife regularly asks "Are you thinking about hurting yourself?"

Just an update... dude isn't necessarily loving his civilian job either. Maybe some people are just born miserable...

[WheelsOff]

Just an update... dude isn't necessarily loving his civilian job either. Maybe some people are just born miserable...

Could be, but I'm another previous "9-5er" myself (3 years out of college before OTS), and I too can vouch that it sucks, big time. My worst day here is still better than doing TPS reports day after day, month after month. Even with the level of queep in an AMC squadron. Edited January 2, 2014 by WheelsOff

[Kenny Powers]

I was enlisted active duty, got in the guard after my enlistment was up and went to college, then worked the 9-5 while staying in the guard.

I loved my job, had great pay/benefits/flexibility (sts), wife had a great job, loved where we lived, etc..

I'm now in UPT and the only thing I miss was the free time. Some days flying sucks for whatever reason, some days are awesome, but most days are pretty cool.

However, every Friday when the beer light goes on and sleeves get pushed up, I'm reminded of how awesome this opportunity is.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Kenny Powers

[so.it.goes]

I was enlisted active duty, got in the guard after my enlistment was up and went to college, then worked the 9-5 while staying in the guard.

I loved my job, had great pay/benefits/flexibility (sts), wife had a great job, loved where we lived, etc..

I'm now in UPT and the only thing I miss was the free time. Some days flying sucks for whatever reason, some days are awesome, but most days are pretty cool.

However, every Friday when the beer light goes on and sleeves get pushed up, I'm reminded of how awesome this opportunity is.

Agree... The civ job I left was pretty solid (and most of the IP's I flew with who asked about it agree), but it just doesn't compare to what I get paid (pretty well) to do now.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

By the way, anyone know what's up with all the double-posting Tapatalk is doing?

Edited January 2, 2014 by so.it.goes

[HeloDude]

However, every Friday when the beer light goes on and sleeves get pushed up, I'm reminded of how awesome this opportunity is.

Careful, some of the folks on here will yell at you for violating the AFI's.

[ElLoco]

Careful, some of the folks on here will yell at you for violating the AFI's.

Some folks will also yell at you for not having a properly documented form 8 WRT your current crew position

[HeloDude]

Some folks will also yell at you for not having a properly documented form 8 WRT your current crew position

Not following...

[DFRESH]

Not following...

Review the Go Pro in UPT thread for your answer.

[HeloDude]

Review the Go Pro in UPT thread for your answer.

Making a joke about sleeves being rolled up in the squadron bar and telling a kid that he shouldn't go around claiming to be something he is not, isn't quite the same thing. If the kid wants to tell his future IP's that he's a 'C-130 Driver' then he should go for it...and someone pleae use a Go Pro to record the event as I'd love to watch the response. In the end, what do I care if a kid makes an ass out of himself? Some of us are trying to teach him a thing or two about going through UPT and what to do/what not to do, but it's his life. I've been a school house IP and in charge of student training and have damn near seen it all. IP's are a lot more willing to work harder with a guy who doesn't feel 'entitled'...and I'll argue a lot harder to the commander for additional rides when I believe the guy is a good dude, is working his ass off, and doesn't believe he is entitled to anything.

Of course I'm open for someone to explain how I'm incorrect or 'doing it wrong'.

[DFRESH]

Dude, I was just explaining the thread tie in. Don't shoot the messenger. I don't give two shits of a fuck if he straps a go pro to his nug and morts or if he wants to call himself SpecOpsFighterPilot69 on the board. Both are his lack of SA.

[HeloDude]

Sorry man, wasn't an attack on you--just clarifying my original remarks.

[slow]

Had a guy in my class get through most of formation in t6's and then wash out. We all saw his heart wasn't in it and he was just waiting to fail enough times to be kicked out. Additionally he was always a pessimist in the flight room bringing everyone down. If you go and decide it's not for you, still keep a good attitude and help the dudes around you out, it'll look much better that way if things don't go well or you decide it's not for you.

[so.it.goes]

Be aware that there were several briefings at our AETC base the other day about how this is not the time that you want to drop-out or wash-out of UPT as a stud... it's unfortunate, but even if you realize this isn't for you, it might be worth sticking it out if you want to stay in the AF.

All I can say is that that is the message that was conveyed. How much truth is in it, who knows?

[Cell Dweller]

Be aware that there were several briefings at our AETC base the other day about how this is not the time that you want to drop-out or wash-out of UPT as a stud... it's unfortunate, but even if you realize this isn't for you, it might be worth sticking it out if you want to stay in the AF.

All I can say is that that is the message that was conveyed. How much truth is in it, who knows?

AFPC opened the curtain a little with the TERA/RIF table recently released. Back in the '06/07 timeframe, there was a demand to meet manning quotas in the old 13S (space and missiles) AFSC. Washouts/SIEs with no appreciable discriminators (specialized degrees, prior service) or who just wanted to stay in the service, but had no particular goal in mind, were generally funneled to 13S. Now that same pool has gotten reclassed, or is getting put on the chopping block. With the FSB reaching all the way back to 3-year officers and with ROTC folks being offered free-outs instead of commissioning, it is pretty obvious where the majority of the washouts/SIEs are going to end up. That being said, UPT washouts still have the opportunity to apply for UNT, ABM school, and I think UAVs. Therefore there are still opportunities if you want to stay in the rated fields.

[Fuzz]

Interesting though, a Lt. I know at Laughlin just got reclassed along with all 6 other Lts. up for it as well. And I heard similar news from other UPT bases. Good for the Lts. but really makes you wonder if anyone is steering the ship at AFPC.