WheelsOff

True, but what will the civilian background dudes think? I’d bet there’d be a mutiny since they wouldn’t have been afforded the same hiring “privileges” in this scenario.

Would definitely be a game changer, but the unions will never allow something like this.

Like the SA of a brand new LT on day 1 of UPT. Lol. Willing to say at what airline was this?

The “Doc Foglesong” of this modern era…glad this lunatic has finally left.

Problem is, neither of these groups know what they’re talking about. LTs are as dumb as a container of rocks, and Lt Cols are far too removed from these types of programs to know any better either (especially if they’re teaching at the zoo). Go find the Capts out there who can give you the real scoop.

Lol. Welcome to the Air Force. Where “stupid is as stupid does” are words we live and die (and promote) by.

Seems like option 2 is your best bet. Maybe try one of the AA wholly owned regionals since they pay as much or more than the legacies right now anyways. Hopefully the airlines will beat that vernacular out of you 🤣

When getting my type rating, our FAA examiner told us from his experience something to the effect of “all it takes is one big furlough to derail an otherwise good career progression at your airline”. YMMV, but that comment stuck with me. Sounds like Huggy/TreeA10 would agree to varying degrees based on their experiences. And I’m not insinuating that there’s gonna be a big furlough upcoming at any of the legacies…like most here I have a lot of friends at all of them, and for everyone’s sake I certainly hope each company can weather any storms they may have on the horizon. Of the 3 things listed in priority order (living in domicile, seniority progression, job security), I used to rank the companies I applied to in that exact order also. In the end I actually ended up turning down a job with an airline in domicile with great progression in favor of a different company that’s historically been a LOT more stable (but is still gonna have great seniority progression), even though I’m now gonna be a forever commuter. As they say, won’t know if that was the best choice until I retire. Unfortunately for 95% of us there isn’t an airline that perfectly checks all the squares in our order of preference.

How about that new contract at the AA WOs that signed this week…pretty substantial pay increase for a regional bubba, even though it’s apparently only good for the next 2 years. Some seem to be of the opinion that it’s a brilliant chess move by AA management—trying to stem the bleeding of its regional pilots to other carriers, while simultaneously hedging the bet that if they file BK in the next 2 years it’ll void the contract anyways. Others seem to focus more on the “rising tide raises all boats” theory. Not an expert, so am curious to hear what some of the airline folks on here think about it. Have a CJO with them and plan to live in one of their domiciles so obviously I’m watching this situation pretty close. Could either be a brilliant move, or could be the catalyst that causes its regional side of the business to eventually implode if they file BK. Either way, seems like a bold (er, risky?) move.

Agreed, very valid point. Didn’t mean for that previous comment to sound elitist. I just find it insulting that leadership would resort to an idea like this when we all know this is just a big middle finger to the rest of us. I guess the crux of my original comment was rooted in the fact that a 23-24 year old CFI who’s given 50 hrs instruction in a -172 ain’t gonna know anything but instruments/basic contact skills. But as the old saying goes, “give me enough time and I can teach a monkey to fly this thing”. I’m just honestly surprised they set the bar for entry so low in terms of quals. The learning curve at PIT will be quite dramatic for the less-experienced hires.

‘Bout damn time!

I see the point you’re making (and I agree with you); however it’s also worth noting that the glaring difference between then and now is we aren’t throwing all hands on deck for a world war. Make no mistake, this current idea is rooted in leadership’s failure at even attempting to retain talent.

Sorry, late response…last part of my original comment was aimed more at the brains behind this idea. That said, I agree with your point of them staying within the lanes of what they know—which frankly is probably only instrument flying and maybe some basic contact, as others have stated. Outside of that—they’ll lack a certain level of credibility among students, even if they happen to be a real good bro/dudette and it is just T-6s (for now). Not faulting these proposed CAIPs as a person/instructor; the military flight instruction game is just at a different level. Or at least it used to be anyways, lol. And this is not a knock on civilian instructors; I’ve had some great ones when I got my PPL many years ago. But the military training environment (and culture) is different for a reason. As many of us who’ve been around a minute know, once the AF changes the order of business, it’s often too difficult to change it back after a certain amount of time. If the AF is willing to go down the path of eventually contracting out all of its undergraduate flying training, what else will leadership compromise on in the future? This is the real issue, that can’t go unaddressed.

So a prereq of 50 hrs of instruction given (presumably in something akin to a Cessna). Really threw in the towel on this one. When is this turd finally gonna get flushed?

19AF/cc by chance? Wouldn’t surprise me if so.

Long story. Generally speaking though, what you’re saying is true.

@brabusYa I’ve seen quite a few iterations of that story with the bros here as well. I have 6 internal recs with the company I’m still waiting on. Talked with their recruiters one on one at 2 job fairs now. Other than whipping it out on the table, I’ve done everything I can to get them to look at me. It will happen eventually I think, just kinda hard to make a solid plan on “what ifs” and then move the wife/kids on a short timeline if/when they call, especially in this current housing market. Otherwise, we’ll find a way to try and stay put and see what shakes out. I’m happy with the CJO I have already, so it’s really a first world problem I’m bitching about here.

Daily.

All checks. The one legacy I have a CJO with called me 10 months out…crazy. I’d have just thought that inside 4 month out, in this environment, I would have maybe heard from a few more… Either way, I’ll gladly go with the one I have, if nothing else materializes!

That’s the boat I’m currently in. Received a CJO from one legacy 3 months ago now. I’m 4 months from starting terminal. Clean record, competitive app, etc. Yes, I have had them reviewed professionally last fall before I hit submit, and more recently by the bros. All of us are scratching our heads as to why nobody else has called yet. And no, I’ve never called anyone’s momma fat, so don’t think I’ve pissed anyone off…

Dude is a grade A narcissist. Heard he is retiring this summer. “His” Air Force will be better off without him moving forward…

Wouldn’t be Gen Wills himself, would it? He said the same thing to a group of IPs at a UPT base this last week.

And some Wg/CCs too. Just ask the boys at the 89th… 👀

Downgrades don’t matter but are very common in the MAF. Didn’t see a whole lot of them in AETC but they still existed. Not sure about other communities. But when it comes to Q-3s, the MAF is by far the worst. Commanders at all levels in many of its MWS’s have weaponized Stan/Eval. Seems to be their go-to punishment of choice; has been for years.

Exactly my point.