FallingOsh

mustache march. if our mustaches were in regs, this would never have happened.

I don't know why you want to do more stuff like blimps. Let the Army stare at the same spot on the ground all day so i don't have to. Call me when you find something that needs killin.

It's not. Ever had Romanian palinka? It's like that. Best I can remember anyway...

So it's ok for someone to do their best, but only if it's not because of their religion? If someone is doing their best, why do you care about the source of their motivation?

We are long past actually trying to win this war.

The way I heard it involved a guy so hungover he ended up passed out, naked, surrounded by his own shit in the one-man raft.

Ask the instructors why the start time is so early.

That was always part of the plan, along with F-18s and Harriers. I'm not saying it makes sense. I'm saying it's nothing new.

He was making the point that your focus should be on fighting and winning wars. You'll be hard pressed to find people on this board who joined the Air Force in order to stay in 30 years and make rank. That's why conversations like this run away pretty quick. I get that you want to lead. That's fine. But leading is not the end; it's a means. We're starting tp repeat arguments and split hairs. Don't lose focus of our purpose as a military. Good luck at OTS.

Does the jet's home unit get charged or does it come out of the EFS? I ask because of rainbow squadrons.

There's your disconnect right there.

If this is really your perception and plan of attack then no amount of conversation is going to do any good. Attitudes like this are why we have such a fucked up system of promoting the Christmas party planner over the war fighter. I'm sure you'll go far. Your difficult masters checks the same container as everyone else's piece of cake masters. Your point may be true, but it's invalid in this argument. Awesome.

If it's so easy and a piece of cake to finish, then why do you think it matters so much? It's the same argument people make for requiring a masters. If it's so extremely important for officers to have a masters, why the fuck do they allow free online degrees? It either matters or it doesn't. Our Check-the-container mentality is a major contributing factor in the current state of our force.

People keep saying this sort of thing. As soon as playoff teams are chosen based upon 2nd quarter performace, you may have a point. Nobody gives a shit how the team did during the first 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter. It matters that they win. Period. I understand what you're saying, but if the team wins (and wins a lot) who cares how they get there.

Does anyone actually know this AF wide FCIF is due to the MC-12 incident? It started out, I think on page 2, as a hypothetical. Four pages later, it's stated as fact and an "AF wide FCIF is blowing this out of proportion." Assuming the FCIF is due to the MC-12, and admitting we don't know all of the facts, which we don't, we could possibly assume this was not an isolated incident and it is actually being handled at the appropriate level. There are apparently pilots out there who think this is no big deal. If the squadron/group/wing had this infection then maybe a big ass FCIF is appropriate.

As long as they stay below 10k.

I picture it a lot like The Office. Just the quiet chatter of keyboards and one semi-attractive girl that everyone hits on. Lots of Dwight's telling stories about how they were really top third in their class but the flight commander hated them. Could be funny.

They probably wouldn't get so much shit if they just called it Advanced Planning rather than Weapons School.

You have to define what you are comparing it against. You can't just say "longer and further" or "more vul time." Longer and further than what? That's like the toothpaste commercials that say "Colgate cleans your teeth better." Better than what? Charcoal? If you're saying it will have a longer vul time than a Viper, well... no shit. If you're saying it has more fuel than other fighters so it has a longer vul, then that's wrong. Strapping externals on a jet gives it more time, but that's true because you're talking about the same platform as a constant. Just having more fuel than some of the other fighters doesn't mean anything. Range and vul depend on the fan optimization altitude, engine efficiency, threat avoidance, load out, etc. Making a claim like. "it has more gas so it has more range" is about as ambigous as it gets. So no, I'm not confused. Well, that would fall somewhere into the argument of more gas equals more vul time. The hog has significantly less gas than the -22, -35, or -15E. My point for the past two pages has been exactly that. Putting all of our eggs into one multi-role basket is stupid.

I'm not sure how you made that leap. Home boy said it will do CAS just as well as a Viper or Strike Eagle. I think it's an honest question, at that point, to define how well those two actually do CAS. I didn't say anything about Iraq, Afghanistan, DOC statements, or dicks. More gas does not automatically equal longer loiter time or further combat radius. Also, how are you defining "longer and further." Longer and further than what? It actually is pretty damn close to rocket science.

Says who? The manufacturer? And define how well the vipers and streaks do CAS... I didn't say it was useless. In fact, I even said multi-role airframes are important. I said it was fucking stupid to put all of our eggs in one service-wide joint basket. That's how this whole thread started. People senior to us and apparently just as smart have decided it may not be the best option for the marines. That was really a back hander at the Viper, but there are numbers. It will have more gas but nobody knows what that really means yet. I think ive maninted from the beginning that this way oft thinking is the underlying problem. It works pretty well for the navy so everyone should follow suit. And as that wasn't enough, we'll make every airframe be essentially the same platform. It'll promte jointness and reduce mx costs...balbllabllbladbdl] The -22 and the -35 were supposed to be Optimus Prime and Megan Fox here to save the world. Turns out Optimus did't have enough money together to bring in more Primes. and Mega Fox is on a downward slope toward rehab. Those air frames are supposed to replace the legacies. Tha's why they're called legacies. Your plan B, and it sounds like part of plan A, is to keep the legacies doin their thang, Your gamesplan is either, (a lie (b terrible terrble plan (c brilliant I think it's C. Brilliant. The plan actually involves keeping all of our legacy jets, (with very very minor upgrades... the money went somwehere else..(megan fox.) so that the brand new shiny toye can be kept at home in a glass case with the rest of our airshow circus

Sure you could. They are pretty successful. The Eagle is still a better air to air platform and the hawg is still a better CAS platform. The problem, as I said before, is relying on one airframe to do it all. The F-35 has a single 25mm cannon that carries less than 200 rounds and 2 bombs internally. How effective do you think that'll be in a CAS roll? The major issue is that people see the multi-role aircraft being "pretty successful" and they jump on the idea of making everything multi-role. Not good. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs suggested there may be cuts less than a week ago. My point was, and still is, that I don't expect to see the F-35 in the shit, especially where it would need STOVL. Reference the other rediculously expensive airframes we have that hang out at Red Flag or "deploy" to Diego. You answered your own question. It doesn't deliver because it's billions over budget, years late, and will be cut down in numbers. It carries an inferior payload even compared to the Viper and won't save money in maintenance as was originally planned. Name one way that it does deliver. I think multi-role platforms are important. I think putting all of our eggs into one multi-role, multi-service, end all-be all is fucking stupid.

WTF is the Air Force going to do with essentially a -15C? I kid. But seriously... We could have light attack aircraft for a fraction of the price while still pumping out Raptors for the A/A roll. We've gotten so far away from building mission specific aircraft that we've created one that doesn't fit any niche. It's like trying to design a block that is round and square and triangle all at the same time so you can just use one block to fill all the holes. (sts?) Turns out it doesn't fit any. It's a neat looking block, though. Everything is joint to the point of breakdown. The entire -35 program has been one compromise after another in order to build a joint platform. It's not an expert at anything. It's too expensive to buy in meaningful numbers. The order is too small to replace any of the airframes it's designed to replace. If you think the -35 is going to deploy to remote locations where STOVL is needed then I think you're diluted. $200M airframes aren't sent to play in the dirt. What we have is an unbelievably expensive airframe that doesn't deliver to any of the services, missions, or original goals of the program. Reminds me of The Homer Car.

You're basing that on what?..... the VSP mess? I know PLENTY of people, myself included some days, who would gladly cut their income in half for a chance to not deal with active duty bullshit. If you are so sure that people won't leave, then why have a 10 year commitment out of UPT? Oh now you're just making things up. And I think the biggest problems in the air force come from people like you who just want to move people out of the way so you get to continue up the chain. You think the tired, beat up pilot who has been away from his family for probably half of his 17 year career is the one who gives a fuck about Friday patches and T-shirts being banned? You think he's the one causing all that fuss? He's the one you're accusing of being a careerist?? You think the guy who could make two or three times the cash as a contractor stays in just so he can preach about everyone getting an online masters? Fuck no. The people ruining the air force aren't tired majors or young LtCols waiting to get out. They're the fuck heads who disregard everyone on their way to O-8. Our squadrons' senior instructors and leadership fall into this mystical category you've created that accuses them of being careerists who are ruining the Air Force. Feel free to tell them that as they head out the door on their 4,5, or 6th deployment. You think there's a retention problem for pilots now? Cut that 8 years' worth of time out from under them as an incentive to stay. All you'll be left with is a bunch of douches looking for their chance to pounce on a brand new shiny rank. Have fun with that.

It's a psychology thing. People under that amount of stress and confusion act irrationally by trying to act normal. They default to what they know by gathering their familiar belongings and exiting the plane. There are people holding coats and bags standing on the wings of a jet in the Hudson river. Some survivors of United 232 were found walking around in the field, severely burned, carrying their luggage. Interesting stuff if you're into that sort of thing; or if you need a topic for an ERAU master's paper.