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UPT-Next, UNT-Next, AF One-Next = CSAF-Next? But good question. What will be his legacy. Begs the future question: what is next-Next?

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/4278007/air-force-chief-of-staff-announces-retirement/ Gen Allvin retiring on 1 Nov after two years in the seat as CSAF. I'm pretty out of the loop these days as a part-timer, but did anything actually happen during his tenure? The only "accomplishment" I can think of is bringing back uniform inspections...

What happened to the student? Tanker pilot because she likes the hose.

Any updates on how the pax is doing and how significant the injuries are?

Pilot - “Boom, where’s the receiver at?” Me - “Uh, behind us, we’re the tanker.”

Non-Prior/off the street hire at a heavy reserve squadron AFOQT/TBAS: July 2023 Interview/Hired: October 2024 Reserve recruiter contact: October 2024 MEPS: December 2024 Package Sent to January UFT Board: December 2024 Package approved by UFT Board: February 2025 IFC1: March 2025 IFC1 certified: May 2025 Oath of Enlistment/sworn-in: May 2025 In-Processing @ Randolph: August 2025 OTS: September 2025 - November 2025 Projected IPT: December 2025 - April 2026 Projected UPT: May 2026 - October 2026 SERE: ? FTU: ?

I wish I could say 60K doesn't feel like that much debt lol. Thanks for your input @ViperMan, its always appreciated.

Yup So it’s about 175 flight hours (not counting sim time) that we’re talking about here and that’s 75 shy of an FAA commercial instrument certificate, 75 hours, in the grand scheme of the things that’s not that much. That would have to 75 QUALITY flight training hours but the point is there, it’s not that much. If there is to be a public campaign, it needs to show the penny wise pound foolishness of this whole situation. No pilot would legally be allowed to operate for hire without the requisite minimum amount of training/experience, why is the AF allowed to cut corners? Now, if the Air Force wants to argue that it can’t afford a platform only used as a multi engine trainer, ok, I think that’s hard to believe but if you want to run with that then create a program that you build to have operational capability that you use also as an experience builder before other MWS assignments in AMC, AFSOC, etc… AETC pays for the type training, AMC flies / instructs these newly winged pilots in this short tour then onto their career assignment. There’s always a demand signal for light airlift from/to major bases, ex KSUU, KSAT/KSKF/KRND, KDOV, etc… pick any major base/concentrated military presence and there will be valid movement requests, buy an affordable, small regional airliner (Do 328 for example) that can serve as a utility transport for regular pax, cargo and medivac missions. Air Land only, no other specialized training, experience and reps while moving pax and cargo is the objective. Fly them for six months+ or so there, then move on to the assignment awarded out of UPT. That easily exceeds the missing 75 flight hours in their training, likely gives them 200+ hours in a transport category aircraft before operating a more complex, expensive mobility aircraft in a demanding training program and serves as an extension to the UPT system, thus keeping pilots from wasting time just waiting for an FTU.

Valid concerns. You guys are both on point, and I don't disagree. This is just my opinion. It sounds like @wikz understands the implication of using the GI bill for flight training. I don't think $60K is that much debt, but then again, I'm an airline pilot now who's biggest concern is when I see nearly $9,000 withheld from half my month's pay. It's effed. So my blackpill is trying to keep as much of my money as possible. Colors most of my opinions now-a-days. On that note...if anyone has any bright ideas for hanging on to more of my money...I'm all ears.

The VA’s VR&E (Chapter 31) will also pay for pilot license and ratings. It’s a better deal than the Post 9/11.

Yeah, the ratio of the money returns between flight school and college isn't great, but with college almost done and the funds taken care of, it seems like I wouldn't be able to use it for anything else except my kids college and I hope by that time, ill be an airline pilot with no issues in paying for it. Also with being a guard guy, I dont get BAH unless on TDY's or deployments, and I dont get TA unless on orders that are a month or longer. Other than that, I believe I would only be able to get BAH while using my GI Bill like you said. I agree with your argument and wish I could've used the GI Bill for college to receive more money, but I think I missed that window. And like brabus said, going into debt now to save it for my kids college (assuming they want to go) to receive the maximum benefits of the P911GIB in the future is debatable.

I don't think id ever be "good" just flying commercial. Don't get me wrong, I love flying and would be VERY grateful to fly for an airline. However, if I ever pursued the airlines before going to UPT (if I ever was picked up), it would be to set myself up for later in life (be financially stable, meaning I can start to give back to my family instead of take, and also to be the best pilot I can be before going to UPT). You are correct, i'm already 2 years out from my bachelors and college is pretty much taken care of by federal student aid. That's why the GI bill looked so favorable to use for ratings, but viper man brings up some good points which I will take into account. Kamaka air offers turbine time, so im glad you brought up what the majors airliners require. I'll definitely look more into that.

Not to mention, you could come up with some pretty wide spectrum comparisons for GI Bill usage. The high end being some Ivy League private school with a yellow ribbon financial incentive, the low end being a trade program, or in this case ratings. Everyone's GI Bill usage is going to be different. The most important part is that it gets USED, which, tragically doesn't happen in a shockingly high statistical rate. For the record, I was on the MGIB during school, before the rates started rising. $465 a month baby! Good news is that I got a year plus up under the P911GIB...which I intend to use for a rotary wing add-on 🤙

@ViperMan Valid points again, but devils advocate is using that logic he goes into WAY more debt early in life, betting on the premise his hypothetical future wife and/or kids will need his GI bill for a degree. I know how well my “in 20 years this is where my life will be” thoughts worked out - probably similar to everyone else! The hypothetical scenario is certainly realistic, but is it worth the gamble and taking on a shitload of debt right now? I don’t think there’s a right answer, but it is a large point to consider. Also depends on one’s view of college in general or what they think their future kids are “entitled to.” Some of us max out 529s and encourage our kids to go to college, some of us think college is mostly a for max profit bullshit scheme and useless outside of specific career tracks where it’s a hard requirement. If one is in the latter group, who cares about saving the GI Bill for kids.

Locher & Stovall story is one of the great ones. Never met B/G Stovall but many years later found out he married a lady that was in my small high school senior class. Six degrees of separation. Stovall went on to fly for FedEx.

His wife or kid could use it for a degree too. Buy a house and rent it to his kid, who can pay for the house with BAH. This might also be in the future where college, and houses, will likely be even more expensive than they are now. I'm really just offering a perspective that says, "hey, realize you're getting less than about half of what it's worth if you use it for this." Of course people gotta make their own decisions based on their circumstances. Many times, though, I think people make less than fully informed decisions.

@ViperMan All valid points, but that assumes he needs to use his GI Bill for a degree. My take from reading above (unless I’m misunderstanding what Wikz wrote) is he’s currently working on a degree (assuming he’s using TA). That means he’ll eventually have a degree without ever having to crack open the GI bill. I have two degrees (both bullshit FWIW), and haven’t touched the GI Bill. TA is a great deal. If my kids don’t use the GI Bill (at this point I think that’s fairly likely), I’m probably using it to go learn gunsmithing, welding at a pro level, etc. There are many ways to effectively use the GI Bill beyond traditional college.

Personally, I would take a loan before smoking through the post 9/11 GI bill. The GI bill will pay about $15K/yr for vocational flight training vs $27K/yr if used for college (2023/2024 dollars). That's .60 for $1. Not a great return. Can you take out a $60K loan to fund your flight training to preserve a $100K benefit? That math also doesn't account for what you lose in BAH when you're taking college classes. Average E-5 with dependents BAH is approximately $2K per month. Multiply that by 36 months of benefit, and you're looking at $72K of tax free income. No payroll taxes. No income taxes. Just money in your pocket. The BAH alone is worth more than what they'll give you in flight training benefit. Just understand the total cost and make an educated decision. Don't be that guy who buys a brand new Camero on E-4 pay. The $60K flight training benefit is going to cost you about $140K. It will surely help, it's just not an efficient use of the benefit.

@wikz If you’re good with commercial flying being your career (even if you never get hired to fly ANG), then the plan is decent. Personally I would use GI bill towards ratings, as it sounds like it’s not necessary to use it towards the degree you’re currently working on (is that correct?) keep in mind major airlines will require turbine time (and usually PIC turbine), so you will likely have to either move on from CFI-ing to fly for a local commercial company who flies turbines, or you’re doing two jobs simultaneously. Either way, it’s going to be bumpy road of low pay (relatively) for a while, but if you truly enjoy aviation (and teaching when you get to that point) it’ll be a fun journey and you’ll be somewhere you really want to be soon enough (199th, HA, etc.) Sure beats the hell out of sitting behind a desk every day!

Buddy of mine was one of the last KC-135 Navs and was instructing at the WPS as a patch who he went to UPT as a Maj. He’s currently flying Raptors. YMMV.

Springer subtly slipped a name in there with a fascinating story, if you didn’t notice. I had the honor of hearing Dale Stovall (HH-53 pilot that flew the rescue) tell us about Locher’s rescue at a squadron function many moons ago. Glad he was able to get home and go to UPT with you. Here’s a quick synopsis. Legends! https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/oyster-1-bravo-evasion-and-escape-in-vietnam/2/

I used my entire GI Bill (back in the day) for FE and ATP ratings plus a Citation type. Used the remainder for a Master's degree. Like to think it helped as I was hired by two major airlines.

well in my mind, I won't be able to apply for the 199th until the 2027 board because I have to finish college and get my AFOQT and TBAS done. From there, I will start flight school again and get to CFII in a year or two = 2028/2029. I probably won't be picked up for the 199th until ive applied for a couple-few years which is just time for me to keep building hours and instruct. id probably reach 1500 in 2030 and fingers crossed im hired around this time to fly for the HIANG. the pipeline has been pretty bad recently and our F22 select who just left for UPT got hired in 2021 which means ill most likely have four years to continue instructing or attempt to get hired by HA, or fly for HA. however, this is all hypothetical and im positive it won't be this smooth and fast tracked.

You're in the process of getting your PPL, as you stated in your first post. In your mind, how soon do you believe you will be competitive for an FO job at HA?