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Promotion and PRF Information

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So we still have some shoe clerk who knows jack shit about flying and puts no score emphasis on WIC, #1 IP, flying combat related awards/rankings, etc. They’ll still be putting emphasis on bullshit that doesn’t have to do with flying jets and killing bad guys. Not a whole lot different from what it has been. At least you won’t compete against the PA officer who has a shitload of time to projo and volunteer for a ton of stuff while doing their second masters. 

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Still seems like it's defeating the purpose of splitting the categories.

What's the purpose?  To promote more of what core AFSCs value and less of what other AFSCs want right?  Whether we all agree with that or not I think that having 90% core folks on the board accomplishes that.  Having 10% from elsewhere (not that those are the actual numbers) might save the one guy who did the broadening tour and actually knows something about the AF outside his AFSC... who knows. // No offense to those who are really damn good at their core... but we need to keep all sorts.

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The real proof of the pudding will be if the promotion rates for each category are tailored to the needs and missions of the af. 
 

I don’t really care who’s on the operator board if the promotion rate is 90+%. 

Edited by HossHarris
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40 minutes ago, brabus said:

So we still have some shoe clerk who knows jack shit about flying and puts no score emphasis on WIC, #1 IP, flying combat related awards/rankings, etc. They’ll still be putting emphasis on bullshit that doesn’t have to do with flying jets and killing bad guys. Not a whole lot different from what it has been.

True, but it also means that ops folks will still have input on combat support boards, which I don’t think is something we’d be willing to give up. The proof will be in how the rates are distributed.

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The real proof of the pudding will be if the promotion rates for each category are tailored to the needs and missions of the af. 
 
I don’t really care who’s on the operator board if the promotion rate is 90+%. 


I’m afraid that this won’t be the case; unless they distribute more DP’s to the Ops group, then this “new system”will be what we have now. It almost seems like it could be worse, as the only guys meeting the board are all operators, but no one else records to establish the promotion record “cut line”. The devil will be in the details...

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the old system helped keep promotion rates per AFSC all within the same level.  
 

this new system will allow for tailoring of increasing or decreasing promotion rates depending on need/retirements.

 

to me, this is the answer to pilot retention in the promotion system.  If we are truly low on pilots, then why would their promotion rate be the same?  It makes little sense.   This is a step in the right direction.   

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The real proof of the pudding will be if the promotion rates for each category are tailored to the needs and missions of the af.


I am just amazed someone used that phrase correctly.

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9 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

 


I am just amazed someone used that phrase correctly.

 

Nerd trap...

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2 hours ago, bennynova said:

to me, this is the answer to pilot retention in the promotion system.  If we are truly low on pilots, then why would their promotion rate be the same?  It makes little sense.   This is a step in the right direction.   

According to the AF, we are not short on FGOs. We are over.

We are short on CGOs. So as far as feelings go, for FGOs it is probably going to get worse before it gets better.

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3 hours ago, bennynova said:

the old system helped keep promotion rates per AFSC all within the same level.  
 

this new system will allow for tailoring of increasing or decreasing promotion rates depending on need/retirements.

 

to me, this is the answer to pilot retention in the promotion system.  If we are truly low on pilots, then why would their promotion rate be the same?  It makes little sense.   This is a step in the right direction.   

I absolutely agree with you that the Air Force SHOULD promote more pilots, but I’m not holding my breath that they actually will implement an effective plan in a way it would actually help out the problem.

From the article:

Kelly said that the “overall promotion board process for officers will remain the same. “We don’t want to change that at all, and we’re not changing it, But instead of competing against airmen from some 40 other Air Force specialty codes, Kelly said, “officers will be competing against a much smaller cohort of officers that are in jobs closer to their own.”
 

To me, that doesn’t sound like they’re looking to just promote all the pilots...

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5 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 


I am just amazed someone used that phrase correctly.

 

I am a Renaissance man. 
 

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19 hours ago, K_O said:

According to the AF, we are not short on FGOs. We are over.

We are short on CGOs. So as far as feelings go, for FGOs it is probably going to get worse before it gets better.

That doesn’t make any sense. I think what you really mean is the AF is short on (pilot) CGOs who want to stay in. When pilots hit their 10 year commitment and separate, they are already an FGO, not a CGO. And *those* are the people the AF needs to keep around...

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That doesn’t make any sense. I think what you really mean is the AF is short on (pilot) CGOs who want to stay in. When pilots hit their 10 year commitment and separate, they are already an FGO, not a CGO. And *those* are the people the AF needs to keep around...

Had one of my old Commanders on my jumpseat, he had just separated from the AF and was going through training. He told me that during his 2 year Command tour he didn’t PCS a single Major. 100% separated. Glad we fixed the pilot crisis.


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2 hours ago, WheelsOff said:

That doesn’t make any sense. I think what you really mean is the AF is short on (pilot) CGOs who want to stay in. When pilots hit their 10 year commitment and separate, they are already an FGO, not a CGO. And *those* are the people the AF needs to keep around...

I don’t mean anything. The slides say CGOs (pilots) and FGOs (pilots). We have way less CGOs than the AF wants and way more FGOs, at this very moment. I’m just relaying the data.

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7 minutes ago, K_O said:

I don’t mean anything. The slides say CGOs (pilots) and FGOs (pilots). We have way less CGOs than the AF wants and way more FGOs, at this very moment. I’m just relaying the data.

That’s not what CAF squadrons look like. 

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4 minutes ago, SurelySerious said:

That’s not what CAF squadrons look like. 

Not broken down by sub-category.
 

I’d expect to continue to see incentives focused on 11Fs and less staff jobs for 11Fs. The glut of FGOs from other communities will pick up the slack.

 

Plus, we all know AF facts aren’t always facts, despite what they put on the slide. Still interesting to see what data we’re using to make our decisions.

Edited by K_O
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Glut of FGOs in what communities? Our one O-5 (not CC or DO) is a reservist in sanctuary. Most of our O-4s are separating at the end of their commitment. Another squadron has one O-5 (the CC) and only a handful of O-4s.


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On 10/21/2019 at 5:25 PM, brabus said:

So we still have some shoe clerk who knows jack shit about flying and puts no score emphasis on WIC, #1 IP, flying combat related awards/rankings, etc. They’ll still be putting emphasis on bullshit that doesn’t have to do with flying jets and killing bad guys. Not a whole lot different from what it has been. At least you won’t compete against the PA officer who has a shitload of time to projo and volunteer for a ton of stuff while doing their second masters. 

Given the way boards work, that seems far fetched.  What percentage of board evaluating ops category of LAF will be in ops?  If there are big differences in scoring, that drives split process.  

Don't mean to interrupt your rant, but seems like the issue is going to be more what percentages are applied to each category than identify of board members.

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They should promote the majority of actively flying O-4’s(pilots) solely based on a last ditch effort to retain some experience..... But they won’t. 

Edited by IDALPHA
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1 hour ago, FltDoc said:

Given the way boards work, that seems far fetched.  What percentage of board evaluating ops category of LAF will be in ops?  If there are big differences in scoring, that drives split process.  

Don't mean to interrupt your rant, but seems like the issue is going to be more what percentages are applied to each category than identify of board members.

Perhaps. And yeah there’s some hyperbole in there, but I still remember the SOS exercise on promo boards when every non-pilot immediately tossed aside the pilot in favor of non-ops PRFs...simply because all the ops-related stuff on said PRF was foreign to them, thus they put more subjective weight on what they knew - volunteer stuff, CGO of the year award, etc. Granted it’s just captains, but people don’t change that much: case in point, the total lack of ops SA was very evident in a MSG type squadron/cc I had deployed once. As a “fast burning” O5 who probably some day would sit on a board, she had no more SA on the ops side of the AF than the Capt shoes in my SOS class. So, board composition is still a factor, albeit maybe not the #1 to be concerned about. 

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2 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Glut of FGOs in what communities? Our one O-5 (not CC or DO) is a reservist in sanctuary. Most of our O-4s are separating at the end of their commitment. Another squadron has one O-5 (the CC) and only a handful of O-4s.


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Our FTU had a solid dozen O-5s when I got there in 2013.  Now they only have one O-5 who isn't the commander or DO.

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Given the way boards work, that seems far fetched.  What percentage of board evaluating ops category of LAF will be in ops?  If there are big differences in scoring, that drives split process.  

Don't mean to interrupt your rant, but seems like the issue is going to be more what percentages are applied to each category than identify of board members.


8/13 board members will be rated officers in the “large board” (Air Ops category) from the slides I saw today.
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10 hours ago, K_O said:

I don’t mean anything. The slides say CGOs (pilots) and FGOs (pilots). We have way less CGOs than the AF wants and way more FGOs, at this very moment. I’m just relaying the data.

124A4295-1771-474F-A782-216ADF03BC2E.jpeg
 

In all seriousness, that’s what the slide probably says, but we all know the data is misleading at best. Reference all the comments above. 

Edited by WheelsOff

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Is there a way to look up the current manning of a squadron? I.e., if I wanna see how many open billets are in a squadron at a certain location? 

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