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Wow. Obviously you don’t know any of Duck’s history. Seriously? You’re wading into a conversation you know very little about and giving big opinions. Good job. But no one asked you. Thanks for your service. If you indeed have served.
 
You could have stuck to the nice statements and asked questions of what you don’t understand. Is that a polite enough correction? How thick is your skin?

Please, enlighten me. My skin is thick enough for whatever you've got. I've been around long enough to stand up to some ridiculous internet tough guys.

Once again, if I'm wrong, I'll own it. Doesn't change what he said. If what he said was all tongue in cheek, well, can't blame people for not seeing that on the interwebs. Saying you want to "trick" the AF into money is pretty cut and dry. I didn't Wade into his past service, in fact, I thanked him for it, so way to go there.

Believe it or not you can throw away years of honorable service with one bad decision.
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You’re wrong. There is no tricking the system, bureaucratically speaking.  See my post above. 

Edited by xaarman

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You’re wrong. See my post above. 

Cool, but I fail to see how your post disproves the fact that he said he was trying to trick the AF out of money. Maybe you weren't talking to me.

Again, if he wasn't trying to do anything like that, then he should be able to ignore my ignorant statement with no issues. As should everyone else.
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3 minutes ago, slackline said:


Cool, but I fail to see how your post disproves the fact that he said he was trying to trick the AF out of money. Maybe you weren't talking to me.

Again, if he wasn't trying to do anything like that, then he should be able to ignore my ignorant statement with no issues. As should everyone else.

Your question came off like you were judging someone for asking if they receive per diem on a on a TDY. There is no trickery here, it’s either you do, or certain parameters mean you don’t. It’s not up to the member to decide. In fact, this goes one step further because AFPC does the travel voucher. 

 

Edit: According to the bureaucracy, we are the victims here, being separated against our will. The system views us in the same boat as those are are RIFd, and certain benefits come with that  

 

Edited by xaarman
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29 minutes ago, slackline said:

 


I'm sure you're a good dude and the AF has hosed you for sure, but guess what, most of us have been hosed at some point. It doesn't give us carte blanche to ditch our standards. Imagine an AF in which all officers had your attitude. I despise a lot of what I have to go through in the AF, but the men and women I get to serve with make it tolerable.

Maybe no one on here wants to say it, or maybe this board has turned into something where only a bunch of whiners come to complain, but your statement here makes me feel like the AF got this one right. I feel like anyone willing to take $69K under erroneous circumstances is someone that should never have been an officer in the first place. When you say "trick the AF to give you" that's what you're getting at, so twist it however else you want. When they don't pay our travel voucher is due to ineptitude, not malacious intentions.

Again, sorry your career got cut short. Sorry you're one of the individuals paying for poor leadership at the top, but based on your reactions, you are not what will help fix the AF going forward.

I hope you find a great job on the outside. I could be way off base here, and if so I apologise. If I'm not, I'm sure you and many others on here will reply with something incredibly mature proving me right. In that case, I still wish you the best, I just wish if for you outside of the guard/reserves because you don't need to be serving anymore.

I am grateful for your service, however. You've done more than the overwhelming majority, so thank you!

 

I'd say you are off base simply because you don't seem to know the backstory on duck.    He has wanted out of the AF and found a way to make it happen.  The AF didn't "get this right".  They didn't cut ducks career shorter than he wanted.    He's not jaded that they are dismissing him.   It's what he wanted.   It's his briar patch.  

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19 minutes ago, slackline said:


Maybe no one on here wants to say it, or maybe this board has turned into something where only a bunch of whiners come to complain

Again, sorry your career got cut short. Sorry you're one of the individuals paying for poor leadership at the top, but based on your reactions, you are not what will help fix the AF going forward.
 

 

Disagree with you on this dude. We're pretty much all pilots here, complaining is what we do. That being said, a majority of the complaints on this forum are completely valid. 

But you're right about Duck not being the fix for the AF, that's because he is voluntarily seperating on his terms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he sees the writing on the wall. 

Sometimes voting with your feet is the only way people will listen. Talk  is cheap. Actions matter. Good luck Duck.

 

 

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Hate to break up the fun.  But does anyone know of a location of the list.  I would like to know my line number.  

Edited by aggiecadet03

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12 minutes ago, aggiecadet03 said:

Hate to break up the fun.  But does anyone know of a location of the list.  I would like to know my line number.  

List will be posted publically tomorrow.  Your CC should know your line number.  

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Disagree with you on this dude. We're pretty much all pilots here, complaining is what we do. That being said, a majority of the complaints on this forum are completely valid. 

But you're right about Duck not being the fix for the AF, that's because he is voluntarily seperating on his terms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he sees the writing on the wall. 

Sometimes voting with your feet is the only way people will listen. Talk  is cheap. Actions matter. Good luck Duck.

 

 

I’m a pilot, I get it. Agreed, there are mostly valid complaints here.

 

I’m failing how people, pilots as you’ve pointed out who are supposed to be really smart, are failing to put this together. Ignore his backstory for a moment. He came on here and literally used the words “trick the AF” into paying him $69K. You just pointed out that his intentions this whole time were to successfully separate from the AF. That $69K is for being involuntarily separated unless I’m mistaken. If so, my bad.

 

In what world is it ethical and of sound integrity to attempt to get something you are not entitled to? Again, if he said it all tongue in cheek, my bad.

 

I apologize if I’m coming off holier than thou, but in my squadron, I wouldn’t be too happy if one of my guys attempted this. It’s just kind of sad is all. We complain about senior leadership, and rightly so, but this is not cool.

 

Vote with your feet, don’t attempt to screw the AF on the way out. You just make it more difficult on your bros when you leave.

 

This is a pointless conversation. The AF is going to get its pound of flesh regardless. Get yours, ethically, when and where you can.

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Slackline, 

 

You misunderstood, have been debriefed, and are now quibbling. 

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I’m a pilot, I get it. Agreed, there are mostly valid complaints here.

 

I’m failing how people, pilots as you’ve pointed out who are supposed to be really smart, are failing to put this together. Ignore his backstory for a moment. He came on here and literally used the words “trick the AF” into paying him $69K. You just pointed out that his intentions this whole time were to successfully separate from the AF. That $69K is for being involuntarily separated unless I’m mistaken. If so, my bad.

 

In what world is it ethical and of sound integrity to attempt to get something you are not entitled to? Again, if he said it all tongue in cheek, my bad.

 

I apologize if I’m coming off holier than thou, but in my squadron, I wouldn’t be too happy if one of my guys attempted this. It’s just kind of sad is all. We complain about senior leadership, and rightly so, but this is not cool.

 

Vote with your feet, don’t attempt to screw the AF on the way out. You just make it more difficult on your bros when you leave.

 

This is a pointless conversation. The AF is going to get its pound of flesh regardless. Get yours, ethically, when and where you can.

Oh my gay. Bro. Seriously lighten up Francis. You were totally baited into this because Broke kept posting passive aggressive attacks on me and deleting them, prompting other bros on here to smell blood in the water and start to swarm.

 

Yes it is totally my intention to defraud the government. I plan on fcvking a bunch of enlisted chicks and stealing the snacko fund on my way out the door. My fridge needs some red bull so I’ll probably grab a case of that out of storage.

 

For guys that have been around a while, y’all two don’t really understand what’s going on. Glad some guys on here get it.

 

By letter of the law, I was involuntary separated. I was asking how to apply to see if I was eligible for compensation based off wording in the AFI. Someone else posted US CODE which contradicts and trumps our AFI and cleared things up for me. That’s what BO is awesome at. If I wanted a lecture, I would have just gone to my wife or mom.

 

Seriously you two, just take a break from the site for a while. Come back when you have valuable inputs.

 

I will say that I had poor wording and didn’t do a good job explaining what I was trying to do. So I take responsibility for that part. I also forgot we have shoe clerks on here who think they are “bros” and part of the squadron just because they flew some in the AF. These guys probably perpetuated a lot of the issues we complain about in the AF today. If you don’t know if that applies to you, it probably does.

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Finally, we are done talking about IVSP on this thread. Thanks to those who clarified. You guys are awesome and make this place the go to for information.

 

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Slackline, 
 
You misunderstood, have been debriefed, and are now quibbling. 

This crap right here makes me feel like I'm arguing with my 15 year old. Don't like what you're hearing, just say, "you don't get it!". I now remember why I stopped coming on here for a few years. A few of you think you're the only ones who get it. Couldn't see the forest for the trees...

Duck, glad you're getting what you want.
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Duck...I don’t know you and I wish you the best. For about 179ish pages you’ve been trying to get the Air Force to let you separate, and have regaled us with your tales of the ups and downs. I don’t know why and I don’t need to know why. Again, I wish you the best. In regards to inquiring about involintary separation pay, when you voluntarily said you really, really, REALLY want to separate, are you surprised some of us think it’s not quite right that you pursue additional funds because you got what you wanted?

Again, I don’t know you and I wish you the best. It’s not about you in this example. You are probably a great dude, but the outside perception is that you’ve been screaming to get out, you got what you wanted, and now you asked about getting paid for an “involuntary” separation. That kind of attitude hurts the rest of us man.

Just an observation. Not an indightment of your career in the Air Force. I’m with Slack on this one. Maybe just take the debrief comment and move on?

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1 hour ago, xaarman said:

Edit: According to the bureaucracy, we are the victims here, being separated against our will. The system views us in the same boat as those are are RIFd, and certain benefits come with that  

 

Let us be honest here: Duck is not being separated against his will as he asked to be separated, so hardly "against his will".

IVSP is there (by law) to provide severance pay for a member who had put in >6 years, was in good standing and did not want to leave, yet was told to leave anyway.  In 2014 I was in a staff job where some non-rated guys actually wanted to stay in and yet got RIFd anyway...and hence deserved and received IVSP.  There's a reason why VSP is different than IVSP.

This all being said, I agree that it's up to the AF to legally determine if a separated member qualifies for IVSP, not the member itself.  So legally, I think Duck would be fine applying, and as for the ethical piece of "should he apply", that's up to him to decide.

In the end: Duck, thank you for your service and good luck to you man!  

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Valid on all accounts and I appreciate Beerman and Helodudes points. I would have paid to get out of the AF. What threw me for a loop was when I called to sign my refusal of my continuation paperwork and was told I was not being continued. My Commander then talked to me about IVSP and I sought out opinions on here. Bad wording on my part and I found it funny when some people who were not even involved in the conversation started getting pissy.

One day I would like to tell anyone on here who is interested my full story and how/why I did what I did. I am glad it worked out and I have 100% thanks to BO. People reached out to provide advice on talking to commanders to DNP letters, etc. This place is special and is an invaluable asset for people trying to get honest, unfiltered advice for their career. Thanks guys.

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23 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

Let us be honest here: Duck is not being separated against his will as he asked to be separated, so hardly "against his will".

IVSP is there (by law) to provide severance pay for a member who had put in >6 years, was in good standing and did not want to leave, yet was told to leave anyway.  In 2014 I was in a staff job where some non-rated guys actually wanted to stay in and yet got RIFd anyway...and hence deserved and received IVSP.  There's a reason why VSP is different than IVSP.

This all being said, I agree that it's up to the AF to legally determine if a separated member qualifies for IVSP, not the member itself.  So legally, I think Duck would be fine applying, and as for the ethical piece of "should he apply", that's up to him to decide.

In the end: Duck, thank you for your service and good luck to you man!  

 

He has an ADSC, was twice passed over, was not offered continuation, and is being given a separation date. The optics that led up to the above narrative are irrelevant.

 

IVSP is not something one "applies" for. AFPC determines whether certain criteria is met (or not met) and amends it to his separation orders. I do not understand why people think he will apply for it and get the cash if it is warranted. Duck literally has no control if he gets IVSP, the most he can do is appeal the decision that is being given to him. There is no form to reject IVSP because you feel bad about the cash being deposited into your account.

 

Edit: I realize y'all are very passionate about serving your country... but this is purely an administrative decision being driven by regulations beyond a service members control. It makes much more sense if you detach any emotions from the narrative.

 

 

 

Edited by xaarman

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2 hours ago, aggiecadet03 said:

Hate to break up the fun.  But does anyone know of a location of the list.  I would like to know my line number.  

Check the vmpf for your line number. I know there’s a spot for it on there. Now I’m not at work right now to check but that’s where I’d look if you can’t see the list. 

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22 minutes ago, xaarman said:

He has an ADSC, was twice passed over, was not offered continuation, and is being given a separation date. The optics that led up to the above narrative are irrelevant.

"Irrelevant"?  That's BS--according to US Code:

"(3)

Notwithstanding paragraphs (1) and (2), an officer discharged under any provision of chapter 36 of this title for twice failing of selection for promotion to the next higher grade is not entitled to separation pay under this section if either (or both) of those failures of selection for promotion was by the action of a selection board to which the officer submitted a request in writing not to be selected for promotion or who otherwise directly caused his nonselection through written communication to the Board under section 614(b) of this title."
 
So it's up to the AF to make that decision, but what leads to the separation is definitely not "irrelevant".
 
Quote

IVSP is not something one applies" for. AFPC determines whether certain criteria is met (or not met) and amends it to his separation orders. I do not understand why people think he will apply for it and get the cash if it is warranted. Duck literally has no control if he gets IVSP, the most he can do is appeal the dectision that is being given to him. There is no form to reject IVSP because you feel bad about the cash being deposited into your account.

I am pretty ignorant as to how the end process works, so I'll default to your knowledge on the process and if you read my earlier post, I agreed that it is up to the AF to figure out their own process.  But when making a purchase and the cashier gives me back more money than I think is warranted, I at least ask the question as to whether or not the amount is correct...if the cashier responds yes, then I say ok and take the additional money.

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I say we meet for Duck’s separation party and let a super drinkoff tournament ensue until no one remembers who won and we have a good time.

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44 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

"Irrelevant"?  That's BS--according to US Code:

"(3)

Notwithstanding paragraphs (1) and (2), an officer discharged under any provision of chapter 36 of this title for twice failing of selection for promotion to the next higher grade is not entitled to separation pay under this section if either (or both) of those failures of selection for promotion was by the action of a selection board to which the officer submitted a request in writing not to be selected for promotion or who otherwise directly caused his nonselection through written communication to the Board under section 614(b) of this title."
 
So it's up to the AF to make that decision, but what leads to the separation is definitely not "irrelevant".
 

I am pretty ignorant as to how the end process works, so I'll default to your knowledge on the process and if you read my earlier post, I agreed that it is up to the AF to figure out their own process.  But when making a purchase and the cashier gives me back more money than I think is warranted, I at least ask the question as to whether or not the amount is correct...if the cashier responds yes, then I say ok and take the additional money.

 

I'm aware of the stipulations, I'm passed over, declined continuation and separated without pay.

People were roasting Duck because he asked if he was going to get IVSP and a few people went with "you're trying to quit and get paid on the way out."

When the AF decides how he was passed over this board, they will decide if he gets paid. If he does get paid, the involuntarily separated narrative above will stand. That's what I was trying to point out... people were getting on Duck like he was going to file a travel voucher under false pretenses which is not how the process works.

And so far, the grass is significantly greener on the other side.

 

 

 

Edited by xaarman
made less snarky, first beers on me at Duck's separation party

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Hate to break up the fun.  But does anyone know of a location of the list.  I would like to know my line number.  


vMPF tomorrow will have your line number.

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People were roasting Duck because he asked if he was going to get IVSP and a few people went with "you're trying to quit and get paid on the way out."

 

Wrong. Duck has since cleared up the situation by owning the fact that he could have been more clear.

 

His initial post about it, however, leads one to believe exactly what you are saying he wasn't asking.

 

He owned it, why are you still defending something he's not fighting?

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7 hours ago, Duck said:

 You were totally baited into this because Broke kept posting passive aggressive attacks on me and deleting them, prompting other bros on here to smell blood in the water and start to swarm.

 

 

First off, I didn't delete anything.

Second, I didn't accuse you of anything. I asked you a question to clarify a point and then made two if/then statements. 

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