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HeloDude

Taxes, the Deficit/Debt, and the Fiscal Cliff

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I actually know a lot. But I guess you are saying giving some the right to get a job without being forced to pay union dues strlrips everyone of their collective bargains rights.

You are malking my point.

Ok your post makes more sense now.

I know in Wisconsin, the bill that was passed limited collective bargaining to just wages. However "right-to-work" doesn't necessarily prohibit collective bargaining, it just means that unions can make "closed shops" and require membership and payment of dues as a condition to work. Therefore, they loose the ability to control 100% of the workers. So now new people get hired or existing employees choose not to renew their membership, the percentage of union employees decreases and the effect of a strike diminishes. Most cases I have seen when membership is no longer required people bail like rats on a sinking ship, also the reason you don't see Unions in the south where there is right to work.

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Ugh.

What part of this don't you like? He doesn't want a vote because he doesn't think it will pass.

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Then let it not pass. He proposed the vote in the first place. You really don't see how this was an unproductive move by McConnell?

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What part of this don't you like? He doesn't want a vote because he doesn't think it will pass.

He called for a vote on his bill, then when told he would be given a vote he wanted to change the rules so that it would only pass with 60 votes (not the 51 needed). The reason he did this is because they DID have the votes to pass his bill, but now he wants to filibuster it because the Dems want it.

This is the kind of bullshit that goes on in D.C. that leads us to being in the situation we're in and why Congress' approval rating is in the toilet.

Skip to 00:30

Edited by Vertigo

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Reid should have reluctantly agreed to the 60 votes just to put McConnell in the awkward situation of not only starting a filibuster against his own bill but voting against it as well. It would have taken away even more credibility from him.

What is going on with the Republican Party?

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Reid should have reluctantly agreed to the 60 votes just to put McConnell in the awkward situation of not only starting a filibuster against his own bill but voting against it as well. It would have taken away even more credibility from him.

What is going on with the Republican Party Congress?

FIFY

Just a bunch of narcissistic prima donnas.

Out

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FIFY

Just a bunch of narcissistic prima donnas.

Out

The House of Representatives is on whole other level of dysfunction. You expect more from the Senate because most of these guys have been in politics for decades…Maybe that is the problem.

I am not trying to be overly critical of the Republican Party but since the Tea Party started ######ing everything up, the Republican Party has no clear direction besides opposing Democrats. Some good ideas are coming out of the Republican Party but they are not getting anything done. McConnell should have not backed down. He should have stood by what he proposed and start moving forward.

Even Rand Paul thinks that Republicans should let the Democrats have what they want. Republicans can just vote present and let the Democrats do their damage. The pendulum will swing back and the Republican Party will have a much easier time getting support to make the cuts they want while eventually lower taxes as the economy improves. This will also likely help Republicans in 2014 and 2016.

Edited to remove errors

Edited by one

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Do you mean Senate?

Congress is a whole other level of dysfunction. You expect more from the Senate because most of these guys have been in politics for decades…Maybe that is the problem.

I am not trying to be overly critical of the Republican Party but since the Tea Party started ######ing everything up, the Republican Party has no clear direction besides opposing Democrats. Some good ideas are coming out of the Republican Party but they are not getting anything done. McConnell should have not backed down. He should have stood by what he proposed and start moving forward.

Even Rand Paul thinks that Republicans should let the Democrats have what they want. Republicans can just vote present and let the Democrats do their damage. The pendulum will swing back and the Republican Party will have a much easier time getting support to make the cuts they want while eventually lower taxes as the economy improves. This will also likely help Republicans in 2014 and 2016.

All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

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I see how I was wrong.

I meant the House of Representatives is much more dysfunctional than the Senate IMO. The Senate normally has a much better approval rating and has been more reasonable in the last ten years.

It looks like McConnell's approval rating just went completely to shit.

http://www.publicpol...e_KY_121112.pdf

Edited by one

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I am not defending the democrats but lets not forget there have been a lot of filibusters in the Senate by the Republicans. The Senate is not perfect but it is a lot better than the House. I am sure there are Senators that you can point out that really suck but you get what I am trying to say.

Guys like McCain and Lieberman are willing to work with each other. They are much less extreme. In the House you see extremes to the left and right which stop anything from being done.

Edited by one

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I think Sherrod Brown is much worse. He would vote liberal no matter what the circumstance was.

Tom Coburn is just as bad but on the opposite side of the spectrum. He would vote conservative no matter what the circumstance was.

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You mean the Democrat controlled Senate that hasn't passed a budget in 3 years? That Senate?

NSPlayer, what do you have to say about this? The ® controlled house has passed multiple budgets but the (D) Senate hasn't. Even Obamas budget failed in the Senate. It isn't the Republicans blocking shit, if you listen to MSNBC they are, but in reality, it's the senate. This is getting tiresome.

If you reply with talking points, I'm going to post pics of your wife with the midgets.

Edited by matmacwc

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I do have multiple wives AND multiple midgets, so this is gonna get really complicated...

Yeah, but, are any of the wives midgets themselves...?

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Complicated or interesting? I think the latter.

The real issue here is that the federal government spending has grown so much that any reasonable tax rate increase still won't cover the expenses. They seem incapable of passing and adhering to a budget.

Consider this example; your friend told you that he makes 50K a year and spends 90K a year. He realizes he can't pay his credit card debt and asks you for advice. How many of you are really going to tell him that it's not his spending that's the problem, it's the fact that he only makes 50K a year and he should go find a job that pays 100K a year, then he'd have 10K extra to spend. You make a budget to match your income, not the other way around. Once they can pass and stick to a budget, then they can talk income but to talk about raising revenue by X% while the deficit is 10 times X% is absurd.

For sidebar consideration: the protests that started the American Revolution used the phrase 'no taxation with out representation'. In my opinion, the reverse should also be true. If you don't pay federal income tax, you don't get a say in what those tax rates are and you don't get a say in what the government does with those taxes. Same for state taxes.

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I think he said something worthwhile, I have to think about it. Midget pictures might still be forthcoming.

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I think the Democrats should have passed a budget resolution with as many votes as they could get when the new Congress takes office in Jan. It would serve as a symbolic, political purpose to end the GOP's talking point you bring up, plus it would be a chance to showcase the values and policy choices of the Senate Democratic caucus in a similar way that the President's budget proposal reflects his values and choices. Even if neither become law it's good to get that out there.

I wish they would pass a budget because it is their job and that's what I'm paying them to do.

Not for a symbolic political purpose but because it is important and it is what I want and they are supposed to be representing me.

They need to cease fucking up.

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The ® controlled house has passed multiple budgets but the (D) Senate hasn't.

That's because the Senate is defaulting to the Budget Control Act to set spending levels and appropriations.

Even Obamas budget failed in the Senate.

No it didn't. That was a satirical take on what the Republicans believed Obama's budget was. The president's budget was thousands of pages, the budget submitted was only a couple of pages long. It was a stunt to get slag in the news cycle and to get people like you to swallow it up.

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For sidebar consideration: the protests that started the American Revolution used the phrase 'no taxation with out representation'. In my opinion, the reverse should also be true. If you don't pay federal income tax, you don't get a say in what those tax rates are and you don't get a say in what the government does with those taxes. Same for state taxes.

That softball approach won't get you anywhere. In fact, we should go a step farther and say the more taxes you pay, the more of a say you get. So if you're super rich and pay like $10 million in taxes, your vote counts like 10000x as much as some guy who paid about $1k.

On another note, this thread gives me hope that there are plenty of ready and willing volunteers to help run the GOP even farther into the ground.

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