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?s on ADSC (Active Duty Service Commitment)

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Works if you're not initially qual'ing. Not the case for t6/38 ips.

Or AFPC is just assessing ADSCs when they shouldn't to lock guys in for longer. I don't see an exclusion for PIT.

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There is an exclusion for pit. Reference the table above the notes, and read further down (I don't have it in front of me), it specifically mentions init quals and how you will incite the full adsc regardless of your ten year commitment. Not sure why pit and iff get this exception, but they do. If you're at the end of your 10 year adsc and you don't like it, 7 day opt- but it is a real thing.

Update: table 1.1, rule 16, note 1c. It's a three year adsc as you are going to another airframe (1c)

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There is an exclusion for pit. Reference the table above the notes, and read further down (I don't have it in front of me), it specifically mentions init quals and how you will incite the full adsc regardless of your ten year commitment. Not sure why pit and iff get this exception, but they do. If you're at the end of your 10 year adsc and you don't like it, 7 day opt- but it is a real thing.

Update: table 1.1, rule 16, note 1c. It's a three year adsc as you are going to another airframe (1c)

If I am able to escape the black hole of RPAs and make it to PIT, I will gladly extend to go back to flying.

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By caf do you mean droids? I have no idea, but the reg makes it sound that if you are switching airframes, you buy the adsc.

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Here's the short answer as given to me by afpc when I fought it:

If you are getting an initial qual in an airframe, you pick up a 3-year adsc, no matter if it takes you past your ten-year UPT commitment. They cite note 1c, even if you bring up note 1b.  This applies beyond just AETC; if you're a c-17 guy switching to the kc-10?  Three years.  A-10 guy switching to the viper? 3 years.  There are always exceptions and drug deals to be made with afpc, but the standing rule is initial qual in a new airframe = 3 years adsc.

 

Other responses:

If you were a FAIP and go back to the same airframe (i.e. T-6 FAIP, now going to teach t-6s again, either at UPT or PIT) you do not incur additional adsc, because you were already qualified in that airframe (your new form 8s will say "RQ" on them because you are re-qual'ing). If (like me) you were a t-6 FAIP and get an assignment to teach t-38s, you get the full 3 year adsc because you have never been qualified in that airframe before. The same would happen if you were a t-6 FAIP and then chosen to teach t-1s, or go to IFF. The only gray area would be if you were a t-38 FAIP, went to the CAF, and came back to teach IFF; they would probably consider that a requal (even though the missions are different, the instm/qual check rides are the same) so you wouldn't get any additional adsc. 

Also, in my 6.9 years of being an FEF monitor, I have never seen a form 8 from IFF. Back in the day (20+ years ago) guys got an instm/qual in the 38 when they finished UPT, but no student has ever gotten a form 8 in IFF in the past two decades. 

Bottom line - the reg is written poorly, and it allows afpc to pick and choose which note they want to follow (in order to make you stay longer), even though the notes are contradictory to each other. 

Edited by Motofalcon

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Moto,

What about a guy going from a MWS to UPT and then back to their previous MWS? Do they still incur a 3 year ADSC for the requal? How do you fight the ADSC? Do you call AFPC or just open a incident case in MyPers?

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6 hours ago, Ebony zer said:

Moto,

What about a guy going from a MWS to UPT and then back to their previous MWS? Do they still incur a 3 year ADSC for the requal? How do you fight the ADSC? Do you call AFPC or just open a incident case in MyPers?

Just like ThreeHoler said - no ADSC for the requal, just ADSC for the PCS. 

And if you want to fight something/have questions, the fastest way to get an answer is open a case in MyPers, because they email you back quicker than trying to get ahold of them on the phone. 

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Moto,

What about a guy going from a MWS to UPT and then back to their previous MWS? Do they still incur a 3 year ADSC for the requal? How do you fight the ADSC? Do you call AFPC or just open a incident case in MyPers?

You're good; if they try to give you an ADSC, just reply through mypers and quote the AFI reference. Worked for me.

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What argument is there for AC-H/U/W to AC-J not to incur the 3 yr sentence?  Similar MWS maybe?

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What argument is there for AC-H/U/W to AC-J not to incur the 3 yr sentence?  Similar MWS maybe?

Does your RTDM code/AFSC change when you convert? If so you'll probably have a hard time convincing a personnelist it's the same MWS.

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AFPC is still trying their same-old tricks, so look out.

They just held up my PCS orders because I didn't sign an ADSC agreement for F-16 requalification.  This thread wins again.

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AFPC is still trying their same-old tricks, so look out.
They just held up my PCS orders because I didn't sign an ADSC agreement for F-16 requalification.  This thread wins again.


AFPC: "Ram, I see here you flew the block 50 F-16. This is the block 52, an entirely different aircraft, so enjoy your ADSC"


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  • Upvote 4

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AFPC is still trying their same-old tricks, so look out.
They just held up my PCS orders because I didn't sign an ADSC agreement for F-16 requalification.  This thread wins again.


I took a screenshot so I can always remember the way I felt when AFPC acknowledged there are rules...
c450a93691eb0021a285a58503962ade.png


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  • Upvote 6

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Re: AC-H/U/W/J: I sure wouldn't bet on it.  Especially the J: unless I am mistaken, as of now you'll be getting a BQ Form 8 from Kirtland in the MC-J enroute to the AC-J.   Def not the same airplane there.

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2 hours ago, icohftb said:

Wonder will they add a 3 year ADSC for the IPUG for a K11F3 to be a T11F3?

They are probably going to try. Don't sign anything till you actually verify everything

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Shit. They tried to get me to sign a 36 month adsc to requal on a plane I had already flown, AFTER I 7-day opted and set a retirement date. 

 

They tried three seperate times to sneak that paperwork by. Three. 

I had some choice words. 

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I just can't imagine I'd ever have a personnelist point out a pilot error on my part, and all I'll I'd say is:

"You are correct, I chose to pump #3 (sts) when I should have banzai-ed. Have a great Air Force day!"

I mean, maybe I'd say that. Then I'd rip off my wings and self-immolate in front of the squadron patch.

Like this:
IMG_1480476406.424658.jpg.ff9a6dc75d38a7

I don't feel like AFPC shares my sentiment.


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What argument is there for AC-H/U/W to AC-J not to incur the 3 yr sentence?  Similar MWS maybe?


Good luck. When I did C-130H to J transition I kept arguing with them through MyPers. They never did accede, but I also never signed the paperwork. Eventually you'll get an email saying "refusing to sign doesn't make it go away. If you've been properly notified then you incur the ADSC"

I still didn't sign and I figure I'll try to argue with someone who can read next time it comes up.


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6 hours ago, Warrior said:

 


Good luck. When I did C-130H to J transition I kept arguing with them through MyPers. They never did accede, but I also never signed the paperwork. Eventually you'll get an email saying "refusing to sign doesn't make it go away. If you've been properly notified then you incur the ADSC"

I still didn't sign and I figure I'll try to argue with someone who can read next time it comes up.


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That's BS. AFPC tried to pull that crap with me when I did my H to J transition, and I threw Note 1B back in their face. They capitulated very quickly (less than a day), and I haven't heard anything about it since. Those morons can't pull their own heads out of their asses...

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20 hours ago, Ram said:

I just can't imagine I'd ever have a personnelist point out a pilot error on my part, and all I'll I'd say is:

"You are correct, I chose to pump #3 (sts) when I should have banzai-ed. Have a great Air Force day!"

 

Never go full retard.

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Here's what I wrote to AFPC to get them to un-fvck their shenanigans.

To save future bros like me the time, please feel free to copy/paste:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ALCON -

I received this message in error. 

My pending flying training is a requalification course in the F-XX. Per AFI36-2107, Table 1.1, Item #16 (Advanced Flying Training), note 1 applies.

According to note 1b: "All manned or unmanned pilots, navigators, and air battle managers who began aviation service after
30 September 1997 will not incur any additional Advanced Flying Training (AFT)/Instructor
Qualification ADSCs which extend beyond 6 or 10 years as applicable, of continuous or cumulative rated
service. Rated service begins at the completion of training and awarding of wings for the rated specialty.
They will still incur Permanent Change of Station (PCS), Professional Military Education (PME), and
other non-AFT related ADSCs."

Note C countermands Note B in the event that basic qualification is attained through AFT. However, because was previously qualified in the F-16, my AFT course is requalification training (not basic qualification training). 

Thus, Note C does not apply in my case.

Because I have completed my 10 year ADSC pursuant to my completion of UPT, further assignment of ADSC for AFT would be in direct conflict with the AFI as quoted above.

I understand that my PCS involves an ADSC (which I accept), but I refuse the AFT ADSC proposed in this case because it would violate the AFI.
 

NOTE: THIS IS NOT A NOTICE OF REFUSAL OF TRAINING. 

Thank you for your assistance with this matter.

V/R,
Maj Xxxxxxxxxxxx

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Mine went something like this:

I am a current and qualified f16 pilot, therefore note 1b applies, thus I will only incur the psc adsc per your reg.

In other words, they know full well about note one b, but they throw spaghetti at the wall to see who signs the paper.


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