1 hour ago, daynightindicator said:

Stop-loss an option for Air Force to stem pilots' departure to airlines
https://www.stripes.com/1.462909

I'll just leave this here...


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And I love how they will use this stop loss option at the table with the airlines to threaten them and force them to play ball...screwing us all over in the process.  I love feeling like a piece of property

seem like we were just firing people an assignment ago .... weird

Stop Loss seems like a really easy way to convince anyone sitting on the fence to leave at their earliest opportunity.  Incredibly short sighted and just plain stupid--and therefore an exceedingly likely possibility.

2 hours ago, daynightindicator said:

Stop-loss an option for Air Force to stem pilots' departure to airlines
https://www.stripes.com/1.462909

I'll just leave this here...


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Might be able to make us stay in, but can't make us fly.  Redball - anti skid.

RUN!!!! Fucking RUN!!!!  Don't give these ass clowns one extra month of your lives! They haven't earned the loyalty and effort of the caliber of people they "lead".  Management is so out of touch that they think a bonus is the solution (which, even with the bonus, is a drop in the bucket compared to even second year airline pay, not to mention quality of life which is priceless).  Until they start genuinely CARING ABOUT THE PEOPLE, I will advise anyone that will listen to GTFO immediately if not sooner.

Just a feeling on my part, but I believe the natural retention rate is around 45% when you have normal economic conditions and airline hiring.  That it was above 60% for the past 15 years is the anomaly, not the low retention now.  Unless you're adding another zero on to the bonus, whatever they come up with won't move the needle more than a percent or two.

Maybe HAF should start figuring out what they can and can't do with 45% retention, and plan accordingly.

They should worry about saving their bonus money and hiring more support troops. FM, FSS, admins, bring the orderly rooms back, etc... let the pilots do their primary jobs.

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54 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Stop Loss seems like a really easy way to convince anyone sitting on the fence to leave at their earliest opportunity.  Incredibly short sighted and just plain stupid--and therefore an exceedingly likely possibility.

As someone alluded to above. This was a shot across the bow to the airlines pure and simple. I think the higher ups have decided the "fence" has been effectively bulldozed over and they've given up on any pretext of keeping most in at this point. Also as I mentioned a while back even if you're out you aren't completely out if you haven't resigned your commission. Even if you attempt to resign I'd say it's a crapshoot they'd accept it as things get more dire.

Edited April 11, 20178 yr by fire4effect
spellun

I love hearing how much Air Force leadership wants to take care their people in one breath.  Then in the next one, they go to the airlines and threaten them to not hire us, go to the FAA and get them to change regulations so we are less competitive with civilian pilots for jobs, and talk about stop loss.

Then they talk to us about how important integrity is.

Stop-loss an option for Air Force to stem pilots' departure to airlines
https://www.stripes.com/1.462909

I'll just leave this here...


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Some good gems in there like this:


“If I don’t have pilots to fly, the enemy has a vote, and if I can’t put warheads on foreheads, then (ISIS) is winning,”


Buzzword, buzzword, buzzword. Mike drop


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AF leadership has lost their damn minds. Thanks again everyone for telling me NOT to take the bonus.

Maybe leadership will realize we need maintainers too, because planes don't fix themselves. At this rate, maintenance is going to turn into contracted maintenance.

4 minutes ago, MechGov said:

 

Some good gems in there like this:


“If I don’t have pilots to fly, the enemy has a vote, and if I can’t put warheads on foreheads, then (ISIS) is winning,”


Buzzword, buzzword, buzzword. Mike drop


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Former SecDef Gates had a point. We paid a ton of money for the latest and greatest flying toys to fight insurgents, terrorists, Taliban, and ISIS with million dollar weaponry. Essentially wearing iron out when we could have employed smaller and less costly aircraft.

once they enact the stop loss they will take away the bonus...you watch

5 minutes ago, No2bonus said:

Former SecDef Gates had a point. We paid a ton of money for the latest and greatest flying toys to fight insurgents, terrorists, Taliban, and ISIS with million dollar weaponry. Essentially wearing iron out when we could have employed smaller and less costly aircraft.

Was Gates for a light attack? I thought he was only interested in buying more Preds.

Meanwhile.... Where is the voluntary rated recall program? That's another tool they could use right now, but are not, as far as I know? True that most would not be interested, but some would be, and every body counts.


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13 minutes ago, No2bonus said:

AF leadership has lost their damn minds. Thanks again everyone for telling me NOT to take the bonus.

Maybe leadership will realize we need maintainers too, because planes don't fix themselves. At this rate, maintenance is going to turn into contracted maintenance.

No way; the AF will do what has worked thus far and make the rated folks fix their own planes.  And they'll commission a contractor for a web based portal that provides the oversight...

12 minutes ago, LookieRookie said:

Was Gates for a light attack? I thought he was only interested in buying more Preds.

Gates was the reason for the MC-12. He is the reason why the F-22 pipeline was killed. Kind of  had disdain for the AF in general. There was talk of pairing the MC-12 with the AT-6. One plane finds the targets, the other plane kills them. 

Who gets to sit at these committee meetings and actually tell the truth? Congress is pretty short sighted and may not remember that the last pilots WE PAID TO SEPARATE, JUST LEFT THE SERVICE TWO YEARS AGO. Our leadership is now talking about stop loss? Someone needs to look our civilian leadership in the face and tell them AF leadership has zero credibility on this issue and if they hadn't fvcked up so bad the situation would not be this dire.


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Who gets to sit at these committee meetings and actually tell the truth? Congress is pretty short sighted and may not remember that the last pilots WE PAID TO SEPARATE, JUST LEFT THE SERVICE TWO YEARS AGO. Our leadership is now talking about stop loss? Someone needs to look our civilian leadership in the face and tell them AF leadership has zero credibility on this issue and if they hadn't fvcked up so bad the situation would not be this dire.


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'That was the last set of generals. I inherited this problem and am doing the best I can with the hand I was dealt.'

What if Generals faced more scrutiny in confirmation, but then stayed in the job until they decide to retire or are relieved? Stop the turnover every few years and let one individual be able to make, execute, and follow through on long term planning.

36 minutes ago, jazzdude said:

 

'That was the last set of generals. I inherited this problem and am doing the best I can with the hand I was dealt.'

What if Generals faced more scrutiny in confirmation, but then stayed in the job until they decide to retire or are relieved? Stop the turnover every few years and let one individual be able to make, execute, and follow through on long term planning.
 

 

But without all the turnover we'd be taking away opportunities from all those deserving O-6s!

However, the last COS began screaming about manpower issues mid 2015, less than 6 months after VSPers separated on 31 Dec 2014 which all happened on his watch. What a disappointment he was.


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1 hour ago, MechGov said:

 

Some good gems in there like this:


“If I don’t have pilots to fly, the enemy has a vote, and if I can’t put warheads on foreheads, then (ISIS) is winning,”


Buzzword, buzzword, buzzword. Mike drop


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I just chuckled that this quote about warheads came from the AMC commander of all people. 

GENERAL CARLTON D. EVERHART II

1983 Bachelor of Science degree in Agriculture, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University 
1989 Squadron Officer School, Maxwell AFB, Ala. 
1989 Master of Science degree in Business Management, University of Arkansas 
1995 Air Command and Staff College, by seminar 
1996 Army Command and General Staff College, Fort Leavenworth, Kan. 
2001 Air War College, by seminar 
2002 Master of Science degree in National Security Strategy, National War College, Fort Lesley J. McNair, Washington, D.C. 
2006 Leadership for a Democratic Society, Federal Executive Institute, Charlottesville, Va. 
2007 Air Force Enterprise Leadership Seminar, Kenan-Flagler Business School, University of North Carolina 
2010 Capstone General and Flag Officer Course, National Defense University, Fort Lesley J. McNair, Washington, D.C.
2010 U.S. - Russia Security Program, John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass. 
2011 Joint Force Air Component Commander Course, Air University, Maxwell AFB, Ala.
2012 Joint Flag Officer Warfighter Course, Maxwell AFB, Ala.
2014 Pinnacle Course, National Defense University, Fort Lesley J. McNair, Washington, D.C.
2014 Leadership at the Peak, Center for Creative Leadership, Colorado Springs, Colo.

 

Please don't let all this education go to waste by resorting to the simplest solution to resolve the most critical issue you will likely ever face.

 

But without all the turnover we'd be taking away opportunities from all those deserving O-6s!

I was primarily focused on the 4 star level with my previous comment, like the MAJCOM/COCOM/CSAF level. That way there could actually be some long term vision/plan for the organization, and accountability for decisions. It'd be insane for a company to constantly change out CEOs every 2-4 years just to give someone else a turn at it for career progression; why do we do it in the military?

On a semi-related note, "The Generals" by Thomas Ricks is a interesting read, basically documenting the decline in leadership at the General level in the army over the years. A lot of what is discussed is easily relatable to the Air Force's current leadership problems.