2 hours ago, BFM this said:

Several examples of ASHP hitting their lights, subject vehicle making indications of pulling over (flashers, slowing down, heading to the next exit, NOT RUNNING), and getting PIT'd in under a minute.

Policy, training, culture.

Gotcha. Yeah that's fucking bonkers.

10 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Can you iamgine how he acts on a traffic stop when no one else is around and no national media looking at you?

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/article/texas-police-announce-decision-officer-163638537.html

LSS, dude won't be working anymore games and is under review overall.  I forgot that venues like this hire LEOs in a part time capacity.

Hopefully enough sunlight is put on LEO entities and they adjust fire accordingly.  Do I want a LEO fully trained and qualified to PIT, yes.  Do I want them to apply it against only very dangerous types only, yes.

There is a middle ground here that should make sense to everyone but it obviously hasn't caught on yet.  200 mile high speed chases that puts everyone on the road in great danger are super dangerous and something needs to be done quickly to prevent that.  Don't care what you're running for, if you're running you aren't going to be allowed to put others at risk.  PIT'ng someone who you haven't established is actually running (moving up to next exit, clear indicators that you're not going to become an issue) and you move to PIT them, unsat.  

Some jurisdictions don't even allow pursuit anymore if the person is fleeing.  Have watched plenty of videos where the dude will run and cops won't chase or they have to hope the Highway patrol or other police/sheriffs can.  

Edited yesterday at 02:49 AM1 day by uhhello

1 hour ago, disgruntledemployee said:

Hopefully enough sunlight is put on LEO entities and they adjust fire accordingly.  Do I want a LEO fully trained and qualified to PIT, yes.  Do I want them to apply it against only very dangerous types only, yes.

Right before he's fired, if that even is a possibility, he'll resign, then get hired by a different agency, stating he's never been fired from law enforcement.

8 hours ago, uhhello said:

There is a middle ground here that should make sense to everyone but it obviously hasn't caught on yet.  200 mile high speed chases that puts everyone on the road in great danger are super dangerous and something needs to be done quickly to prevent that.  Don't care what you're running for, if you're running you aren't going to be allowed to put others at risk.  PIT'ng someone who you haven't established is actually running (moving up to next exit, clear indicators that you're not going to become an issue) and you move to PIT them, unsat.  

Some jurisdictions don't even allow pursuit anymore if the person is fleeing.  Have watched plenty of videos where the dude will run and cops won't chase or they have to hope the Highway patrol or other police/sheriffs can.  

I have no problem using the PIT in the right circumstance but sometimes you have to wonder what they are thinking. My wife and I like to watch On Patrol Live and sometimes they will PIT with on coming traffic in the way. Chasing a capital murder suspect ok I can see the urgency in that circumstance. PIT a car with oncoming traffic when the dude simply ran from a traffic stop...not so much.

There is a very nasty case from Michigan when a state trooper was chasing a 15 year old kid on a four wheeler, he tazed the hit while he was driving causing him to crash into a parked truck, he died. Even more disturbing (and captured in the video attached), the conduct and comments of responding officers. Some covered their body cameras and other turned them off when they started talking about what happened. In this case the officer was eventually charged with murder.

14 hours ago, uhhello said:

There is a middle ground here that should make sense to everyone but it obviously hasn't caught on yet.  200 mile high speed chases that puts everyone on the road in great danger are super dangerous and something needs to be done quickly to prevent that.  Don't care what you're running for, if you're running you aren't going to be allowed to put others at risk.  PIT'ng someone who you haven't established is actually running (moving up to next exit, clear indicators that you're not going to become an issue) and you move to PIT them, unsat.  

Some jurisdictions don't even allow pursuit anymore if the person is fleeing.  Have watched plenty of videos where the dude will run and cops won't chase or they have to hope the Highway patrol or other police/sheriffs can.  

I think a lot of pursuit policies reflect the liability of an individual agency. State level agencies often have the law and resources on their side whereas city or county agencies frankly don't. Higher up the government food chain the harder it is to sue. Here again I fully support robust aviation support to make running a futile endeavor. In fact, local news helicopters have acted as de-facto air support in the apprehension of suspects at times. Watching long pursuits on TV in some Southern States constitutes fine redneck entertainment. For suspects it has probably prevented the obligatory post chase beat down when it's being broadcast live to thousands so there is that.

3 hours ago, fire4effect said:

I think a lot of pursuit policies reflect the liability of an individual agency. State level agencies often have the law and resources on their side whereas city or county agencies frankly don't. Higher up the government food chain the harder it is to sue. Here again I fully support robust aviation support to make running a futile endeavor. In fact, local news helicopters have acted as de-facto air support in the apprehension of suspects at times. Watching long pursuits on TV in some Southern States constitutes fine redneck entertainment. For suspects it has probably prevented the obligatory post chase beat down when it's being broadcast live to thousands so there is that.

Watched these a lot growing up in Southern CA. That was until one guy stopped on a bridge and decided to eat a shotgun shell traveling at high velocity. The guy was too fast for the cameras to switch/pull back. Didn't see too many chases on TV after that where I lived. As I recall the man's dog was in the passenger seat. Kinda wish I could forget that shit.

13 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

I have no problem using the PIT in the right circumstance but sometimes you have to wonder what they are thinking. My wife and I like to watch On Patrol Live and sometimes they will PIT with on coming traffic in the way. Chasing a capital murder suspect ok I can see the urgency in that circumstance. PIT a car with oncoming traffic when the dude simply ran from a traffic stop...not so much.

There is a very nasty case from Michigan when a state trooper was chasing a 15 year old kid on a four wheeler, he tazed the hit while he was driving causing him to crash into a parked truck, he died. Even more disturbing (and captured in the video attached), the conduct and comments of responding officers. Some covered their body cameras and other turned them off when they started talking about what happened. In this case the officer was eventually charged with murder.

He was found guilty of a lesser included offense of involuntary manslaughter. Looks like he got 5-15 years in prison.