Russian Ukraine shenanigans

[waveshaper]

14 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Russians dug & lived in trenches in the Chornobyl no-go zone. As long as Putin believes the radiation won’t reach him, he doesn’t give half a fuck. I absolutely wouldn’t put it past him to stage an accident/terror attack at Zaporizhzhia. Also, if the Russians would be affected by a radiation plume, the Ukrainians are going to have it much worse. Why on earth would the Ukes be the more likely instigators using this logic? 

I would recommend that the UN/NATO/EU/etc start broadcasting/posting maps - updated daily (Recommend a minimum of a 5-day, weather based, forecast map).  The maps should show the potential downwind hazard areas if any of this Nuke Power Plant Reactor Cores/Cooling Systems/etc swiftly go into the wartime meltdown mode: The maps will probably look something like this = 

[gearhog]

2 hours ago, Prozac said:

Russians dug & lived in trenches in the Chornobyl no-go zone. As long as Putin believes the radiation won’t reach him, he doesn’t give half a fuck. I absolutely wouldn’t put it past him to stage an accident/terror attack at Zaporizhzhia. Also, if the Russians would be affected by a radiation plume, the Ukrainians are going to have it much worse. Why on earth would the Ukes be the more likely instigators using this logic? 

I didn't realize this. Did they live in trenches immediately after the Chernobyl disaster or 40 years later?

Why would Ukraine do this? Not sure. Maybe because as long as the war funding keeps flowing and the radiation doesn't reach Kiev, Zalensky doesn't care. Why does Zalensky do anything?

https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1675540809406349319?s=20

 

[Prozac]

52 minutes ago, gearhog said:

I didn't realize this. Did they live in trenches immediately after the Chernobyl disaster or 40 years later?

Why would Ukraine do this? Not sure. Maybe because as long as the war funding keeps flowing and the radiation doesn't reach Kiev, Zalensky doesn't care. Why does Zalensky do anything?

https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1675540809406349319?s=20

 

Even forty years later the soil immediately beneath the topsoil is radioactive. There have been reports of Russian soldiers who occupied that land showing signs of radiation sickness. There’s a reason access to the site is still highly restricted, even after all these years. If you’d like to go dig holes in the dirt around there, be my guest. Not sure what point you’re trying to make in your second sentence. You believe Russia cares about a radioactive plume but Ukraine doesn’t? Okayeee. 

 

[pawnman]

8 hours ago, gearhog said:

I didn't realize this. Did they live in trenches immediately after the Chernobyl disaster or 40 years later?

Why would Ukraine do this? Not sure. Maybe because as long as the war funding keeps flowing and the radiation doesn't reach Kiev, Zalensky doesn't care. Why does Zalensky do anything?

https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1675540809406349319?s=20

 

Shit isn't hard to find, bro.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/red-forest-chernobyl-radiation-sickness-b2330067.html

[BashiChuni]

You fucking war whores are so tiresome

 

[Prozac]

1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

You fucking war whores are so tiresome

 

You’re right. Appeasing murderous dictators is a much better, historically proven strategy. 

[gearhog]

18 hours ago, Prozac said:

Even forty years later the soil immediately beneath the topsoil is radioactive. There have been reports of Russian soldiers who occupied that land showing signs of radiation sickness. There’s a reason access to the site is still highly restricted, even after all these years. If you’d like to go dig holes in the dirt around there, be my guest. Not sure what point you’re trying to make in your second sentence. You believe Russia cares about a radioactive plume but Ukraine doesn’t? Okayeee.

The point being neither side are likely as concerned about the consequences as you are. The Donbas region East of the powerplant and Dnieper has historically been pro-Russian and where much of the unrest occurred in 2014 after the Euromaidan uprising between anti-government separatists and Kiev. Russia has always had an enormous influence there and the Ukraine government likely understands it is a territory they're likely not going to get back anytime soon. It's entirely possible they're willing to sacrifice it to create a Phyrric victory situation for Russia.

10 hours ago, pawnman said:

Shit isn't hard to find, bro.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/red-forest-chernobyl-radiation-sickness-b2330067.html

Nice work, detective. Now do the word "sarcasm".

I'm completely shocked that any military leadership would ever risk exposing their troops to potentially harmful environmental conditions such as radiation, chemicals, pollution, biological agents, burn pits, etc.

Edited July 6, 2023 by gearhog

[McJay Pilot]

Babylon Bee FTW!

[DirkDiggler]

24 minutes ago, McJay Pilot said:

Babylon Bee FTW!

That shit was funny.

[BashiChuni]

17 hours ago, Prozac said:

You’re right. Appeasing murderous dictators is a much better, historically proven strategy. 

You call it appeasing. 
 

I call it poking the bear in the eye acting shocked it bites your hand. Keep feeding that military industrial complex $$$ like a good drone you are 

[Prozac]

16 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

You call it appeasing. 
 

I call it poking the bear in the eye acting shocked it bites your hand. Keep feeding that military industrial complex $$$ like a good drone you are 

Says the guy spreading Putin’s propaganda for him. SMH 🤦‍♂️ 

[gearhog]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

Says the guy spreading Putin’s propaganda for him. SMH 🤦‍♂️ 

I certainly wouldn't want to accuse you of making generalizations and labeling anything you don't like as enemy propaganda. I, myself, am always wary of propaganda, especially when it encourages escalating conflict. Would you mind identifying the specific propaganda that originated with Putin and was repeated here?

[HeloDude]

21 hours ago, Prozac said:

You’re right. Appeasing murderous dictators is a much better, historically proven strategy. 

So if you didn’t want to go to war in Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein, were you in the camp of appeasing murderous dictators?  Or does this only work certain murderous dictators?

Another point—you can be anti-Putin and anti-supporting Ukraine with (what seems) an endless huge amount of taxpayer money/arms.

[DirkDiggler]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/06/yevgeny-prigozhin-russia-wagner-rebellion/
 

  Whole thing keeps getting weirder and weirder.

[gearhog]

This is the best summary of the fraud being perpetrated upon US citizens I have seen to date.

Max Blumenthal delivering remarks at the UN. Best vid you'll see this week.

The first Twitter link is captioned.

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by gearhog

[BashiChuni]

18 hours ago, Prozac said:

Says the guy spreading Putin’s propaganda for him. SMH 🤦‍♂️ 

i'm for the US taking a role to end this conflict peacefully.

hardly the putin propaganda. seems like you're a slave to the US propaganda and lack critical thinking skills. sad.

[Stoker]

14 hours ago, HeloDude said:

So if you didn’t want to go to war in Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein, were you in the camp of appeasing murderous dictators?  Or does this only work certain murderous dictators?

Another point—you can be anti-Putin and anti-supporting Ukraine with (what seems) an endless huge amount of taxpayer money/arms.

If the murderous dictators are only murdering "their own" people and not invading neighboring countries, it becomes a lot easier to justify not getting involved. Recall that WW2 started over Poland, not Kristellnacht. 

[HeloDude]

14 minutes ago, Stoker said:

If the murderous dictators are only murdering "their own" people and not invading neighboring countries, it becomes a lot easier to justify not getting involved. Recall that WW2 started over Poland, not Kristellnacht. 

So what you’re saying is that it has nothing to do with a dictator murdering innocent people as long as those people geographically live in on one side of a border vs another.

[DirkDiggler]

Putin’s Real Security Crisis: The Most Important Lesson of the Wagner Rebellion Is the FSB’s Failure (foreignaffairs.com)

 

  Interesting article regarding fallout from the Wagner situation.

 

[Stoker]

13 hours ago, HeloDude said:

So what you’re saying is that it has nothing to do with a dictator murdering innocent people as long as those people geographically live in on one side of a border vs another.

I'm saying the Western electorate is a lot more ok with you murdering your own people than they are with you crossing borders. I'm not saying I agree with that stance, but is the default stance of democratic nations since circa 1917.

[gearhog]

For those interested in how we are being involuntarily indebted for $Billions on the promise that you'll work hard and pay an increasing amount of taxes for the rest of your life, here is a list of ways fraud is being committed and enriching others at your expense, with links to government websites touting how these expenditures will ensure a prompt Russian defeat and guarantee peace and stability throughout the world.

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/06/27/gravy-train-independent-audit-ukraine/

[Stoker]

2 hours ago, gearhog said:

For those interested in how we are being involuntarily indebted for $Billions on the promise that you'll work hard and pay an increasing amount of taxes for the rest of your life, here is a list of ways fraud is being committed and enriching others at your expense, with links to government websites touting how these expenditures will ensure a prompt Russian defeat and guarantee peace and stability throughout the world.

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/06/27/gravy-train-independent-audit-ukraine/

I can't tell from this article if there's actual allegations of fraud, or if it's just bitching that we're spending money in general. If it's the former, there are avenues to address that and they don't include "Cut Ukraine loose, let the Russians roll through Europe and upend the free world order." If it's the latter, well, it's time to grow up and realize the US Government is a vehicle for shoveling money out the door to accomplish policy goals. And at ~$300 per American to stop a genocide and cripple a major threat to US foreign policy for decades, it's pretty cheap.

 

We spent on COVID bailouts about 45 times as much as we've spent on Ukraine. It's a rounding error in the budget.

[ClearedHot]

On 7/6/2023 at 2:51 PM, BashiChuni said:

You call it appeasing. 
 

I call it poking the bear in the eye acting shocked it bites your hand. Keep feeding that military industrial complex $$$ like a good drone you are 

Brother...for pennies on the dollar and without loss of American life (other than those who volunteered to go over), we have helped humble a superpower and a direct threat to the United States.  The damage done to Russia's military, population and economy will likely limit Russian aggression in Europe for many years to come.  A peaceful solution should not include Ukraine surrendering even more terrain after we promised to provide for their security when they gave up their nukes.  Any ground they reclaim, including the Crimea sets Putin back even further, I don't see how he survives.

[Lord Ratner]

26 minutes ago, Stoker said:

We spent on COVID bailouts about 45 times as much as we've spent on Ukraine. It's a rounding error in the budget.

This sums it up for me. I don't believe in the "every dollar counts" philosophy of government spending.

 

Either the government is going to spend itself into catastrophe or it won't. If it is, which I believe to be the case, then I'd rather see some of the funny-money-printing that will doom us go towards mildly useful endeavors, rather than watch it all get wasted on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, bank bailouts, PPP loans, student loan forgiveness, university funding, etc.

 

There's an unknown-but-finite $$ amount where all this nonsense falls apart. It's going to be spent on something, might as well be something that weakens our enemy a little.

[gearhog]

46 minutes ago, Stoker said:

I can't tell from this article if there's actual allegations of fraud, or if it's just bitching that we're spending money in general. If it's the former, there are avenues to address that and they don't include "Cut Ukraine loose, let the Russians roll through Europe and upend the free world order." If it's the latter, well, it's time to grow up and realize the US Government is a vehicle for shoveling money out the door to accomplish policy goals. And at ~$300 per American to stop a genocide and cripple a major threat to US foreign policy for decades, it's pretty cheap.

 

We spent on COVID bailouts about 45 times as much as we've spent on Ukraine. It's a rounding error in the budget.

Fraud is deception that results in financial gain. It's obvious a very large portion of these funds are being redirected away from the advertised purpose of helping Ukraine defeat Russia. I'm against the COVID bailouts as well, but at least average US citizens were direct beneficiaries. I think it's hard to make the case Russia was a dastardly superpower capable and ready to steamroll across Europe while also alleging they were stopped a few dozen miles into Ukraine for a paltry sum.

I think one should be careful bragging how cheaply we kill Russians, lest you sound like Lindsey Graham.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/us-news/lindsey-graham-zelensky-russia-meeting-b2347305.html

30 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

 I'd rather see some of the funny-money-printing that will doom us go towards mildly useful endeavors, rather than watch it all get wasted on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, bank bailouts, PPP loans, student loan forgiveness, university funding, etc.

There's an unknown-but-finite $$ amount where all this nonsense falls apart. It's going to be spent on something, might as well be something that weakens our enemy a little.

Your Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are a waste, but paying for war on the other side of the planet is not?

You know funny-money-printing is going to doom us, so it's better to try and doom adversaries than try and help ourselves?

Does not compute.