July 30, 201510 yr Author Gents, Thanks for the candid comments and perspective. Getting the views of military pilots that also own an aircraft is very helpful to my understanding of the problem. There is a ton I don't know about ADS-B, and am trying to get up to speed quickly. Much appreciated. Edited July 30, 201510 yr by Huggyu2
July 30, 201510 yr ADS-B is a terrible idea in a fighter. Too exploitable. I built an ADS-B radar scope at home for $40. I'd assume you'd simply turn it off just like mode 3/C when you fence-in... I'd think cost would be the real limfac
July 30, 201510 yr Training fence in? Or combat? If we're worried about fat dumb and happy doctors flying through the moa, having the adsb off would defeat the purpose. I don't want any yahoo tracking my location in the US or otherwise.
July 30, 201510 yr If in training why would you really care? I'm not familiar with adsb's exact capabilities but can't they already get your rough position with 3/c? If stranger traffic were also on adsb it would in theory make it a lot easier to set a 5 km bubble around them and not have to knock off the entire war. I heard rumors that the F-35 had ads-b. Edited July 30, 201510 yr by icohftb
July 31, 201510 yr Never going to happen in fighters. Yeah yeah the FAA is going to "require" it by 2020, but I can not ever see this being funded considering what is NOT funded in "legacy" platforms. Fighters are not airplanes, they are war machines. Just like a tank that doesn't have turn signals, airbags and rear view cameras, I can't see the DoD letting the FAA drive how we spend money on hardware/software on fighters. Yes I realize the FAA and ATC thinks we would all run into each other if it were not for them, that is simply not the case Yes, the current mishap in SC is ONE recent data point to the contrary. But are we really not going to fund a system that enhances combat capability in order to fund an ADS-B "upgrade" No freaking way. Are we going to GAB a jet because ADS-B isnt working...no way. DoD and FAA will play chicken and the DoD will win. You fly an airplane by LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW....not down at some iPad looking thing telling you where "everyone" is. Edited July 31, 201510 yr by mudhen69
July 31, 201510 yr In our latest IRC class, I asked if there were plans for the C-17 to upgrade to ADS-B our instructor laughed and said "no, we'll get waivers".
July 31, 201510 yr No, just no. Also, before everyone takes out their "jump to conclusions" mats, why not let the investigators do their job and wait until the report is released.
July 31, 201510 yr Also, before everyone takes out their "jump to conclusions" mats, why not let the investigators do their job and wait until the report is released. Hahaha! You must be new here....
July 31, 201510 yr To move ADS-B discussion here.... Mudhen nailed it. What the FAA says in public ("2020 or else!") can be very different from what's being said in private (i.e. between the DOD and FAA). This is NOT conjecture on my part. So yes, there's an extremely likely chance most mil aircraft will not see ADS-B in 2020 and it will not be surprising if many don't see it (or it's predecessor?) until well into the 2020s.
July 31, 201510 yr In our latest IRC class, I asked if there were plans for the C-17 to upgrade to ADS-B our instructor laughed and said "no, we'll get waivers". Some C-17s show up on the plane finder websites which usually get fed from ADS-B.
July 31, 201510 yr I thought that all mil aircraft were mandated by Congress to have TCAS after the 141 mid air.
July 31, 201510 yr To move ADS-B discussion here.... Mudhen nailed it. What the FAA says in public ("2020 or else!") can be very different from what's being said in private (i.e. between the DOD and FAA). This is NOT conjecture on my part. So yes, there's an extremely likely chance most mil aircraft will not see ADS-B in 2020 and it will not be surprising if many don't see it (or it's predecessor?) until well into the 2020s. As of very recently, that's exactly what DoD is hoping for/planning on. FAA is saying "not this time, not a chance, try us". We'll see how that works out.
July 31, 201510 yr Some C-17s show up on the plane finder websites which usually get fed from ADS-B. We have ADS-C and CPDLC but not ADS-B.
August 1, 201510 yr As of very recently, that's exactly what DoD is hoping for/planning on. FAA is saying "not this time, not a chance, try us". We'll see how that works out. It’s a bold strategy, Cotton. Let’s see if it pays off for him.
August 1, 201510 yr The FFA plans to deactivate the majority of air traffic control radar systems and primarily go by transponder/ADS-B for deconfliction. I doubt they will continue to fund systems they plan on shutting down past 2020. So the FFA needs more money to continue the legacy system, the Air Force needs more money to switch to the new one. Something’s gonna give, and compliance will have to be waived for military aircraft. That said, filing flight plans in the US will feel more like Europe with reroutes, slot times, lower altitudes and all around pain-in-the-ass chicanery. Might feel like you’re requesting an ALTRV just to get to the MOA. The cycle of butthurt with ATC will only grow as we diverge further from the rules our civilian brethren have to play by.
August 1, 201510 yr The FFA plans to deactivate the majority of air traffic control radar systems and primarily go by transponder/ADS-B for deconfliction. I doubt they will continue to fund systems they plan on shutting down past 2020 I would bet that this is the FAA "strategery".....Force the DoD to pay for the "outdated" systems since civilians don't use them.
August 1, 201510 yr kinda like how the Navy just forked over millions to Microsoft for the privilege of continuing to use WinXP...
October 21, 201510 yr FAA: JK, we probably won't ground everyone without ADS-B in 2020. Guess that firm no-exemption deadline might be less firm than initially stated. https://www.wsj.com/articles/faa-to-let-airlines-seek-to-delay-navigation-upgrades-1445017417
October 21, 201510 yr Apparently there is a difference between adsb out and adsb in. My understanding is that a lot of aircraft already have adsb out... Its mode s paired with GPS position. The 2020 requirement is for adsb out. Edited October 21, 201510 yr by icohftb
October 21, 201510 yr Apparently there is a difference between adsb out and adsb in. My understanding is that a lot of aircraft already have adsb out... Its mode s paired with GPS position. The 2020 requirement is for adsb out.Getting an ADS-B out is not that simple on the POM system, and considering waivers this far out for one part of their system means it's more likely that further exemptions will be allowed later. Also, a Mode S transmitter is not inherently ADS-B compliant; there are further upgrades involved.
October 21, 201510 yr APX-123s are becoming the standard transponder on all US Army aircraft....Part of the program with PM is to include ADS-B broadcast in the 123 by 2018.Receive may never happen in the current generation but at least one sided compliance is being viewed as the lube to go with telling the FAA to sit on it.
Create an account or sign in to comment