Ever Considered Expating?

[afnav]

If anyone has had to live in a place like Saudi, and I don't mean on PSAB or an isolated compound, you will likely understand that I did not take this job by choice. I will say that you stand a much higher chance of getting killed in a traffic accident in Riyadh than you do getting knocked off by a jihadi. They drive like lunatics, and I pass wrecked cars every day I go to work.

I liked my job at USSTRATCOM, but last February, I could tell that public service would become too unstable for my family to survive, and I jumped ship. Unfortunately, my forecast has proven correct.

In talking to others, expating in more favorable countries is a very positive experience. When my contract is up, I'm hoping that things back home will be better than they are now, but for the present, the horror stories are keeping me overseas. Maybe I can luck out with a job in Europe next time.

I went to an embassy town hall a couple of weeks ago, and heard stories from a few young teachers about their contracts being violated by their local employers. That has not happened to me, but it is a glaring example of what happens when you take a job overseas and things are not what you thought they would be. The embassy staff could not do a damn thing to help them, and the State Department should get the word out that employment overseas can be a risky proposition. Sometimes, the higher pay is not worth it.

[sputnik]

I have a few buds that did the Saudi UPT gig. In general they liked it.

I think it could be fun, the pay is nice. But it isn't something I'd do long term, and I don't think job hunting from Saudi would be fun or easy.

[hindsight2020]

Hell, I feel like an expat already, working and living in Del Rio.....Can't wait for the chance to move back home to bona fide America.

[sputnik]

Saudi paid better than Del Rio. Also, better living conditions

[HeloDude]

What is it with you? It seems all the posts you respond to have a snide/disrespectful tone. To answer your question: I am not joking. There is nothing in my post to suggest I am joking. I lived there for 3 years in two separate assignments. That is my perspective. What's yours?

......you must be new around here.

I'll give you a hint: HeloDude, freedom......think gun laws.

Gun laws are a big one...but it's not just about gun laws or lack there of. The 2nd Amendment is only a symptom of the greater issue--Rights, Liberty, and Freedom. If I have no means to protect myself, my family, and my property, and I have to rely on the government to protect me, then I can easily lose everything I have (my life, my family, my property) because the government can't be everywhere, they don't have an obligation to protect me or you (at least here in the US in regards to the police/LE), and they can also turn on you if they see fit...internment camps for Japanese Americans quickly comes to mind.

But it's not just about the 2nd Amendment, it's also about being able to live the way I see fit as long as it doesn't take away that same ability from somebody else. In Germany, it's illegal to homeschool your children, with very rare exceptions. I call this a barrier to liberty. In the UK, they don't have the same/equivalent '5th Amendment' type Rights that we do here in the US, and what they do have isn't nearly as protective.

Taxes also have to do with freedom and liberty--the more you take from what someone has earned, the less opportunity they have to do with it as they chose (ie liberty), especially if that money is taken only to be redistributed to somebody else.

(Here's a study that George Mason University does every so often on the 'freedoms in the 50 States' and details what States are best in terms of respecting Rights and Liberties. It's State comparison vs international, but it details what I'm describing pretty well )

I could go on and on, but I think you guys get the idea. So going back to Japan--no 2nd Amendment type Rights, their current constitution continually discusses 'public welfare' and states that human rights are subject to restriction when it interferes with the public welfare, it states that people are obligated to work, and have very strict rules on the education of children.

Articles 25 states: "All people shall have the right to maintain the minimum standards of wholesome and cultured living. In all spheres of life, the State shall use its endeavors for the promotion and extension of social welfare and security, and of public health." I'll at least give it to the Japanese...they come out and directly say they are for entitlements in their constitution instead of how we do it here in the US...but either way, they require more taxes to fulfill this constitutional right, which leaves less money to the people to make their own decisions. Oh, and Article 26 states, "All people shall have the right to receive an equal education correspondent to their ability, as provided by law."...sounds to me the law has a lot to say in how people receive their education...not so much in our Constitution.

Let's see, what else...the country does not recognize gay marriage, their marijuana laws/sentences are much more strict than in the US (and hell, it's legal here in some places), they also have stricter environmental laws, have higher personal taxes (especially when compared to States with low tax rates)...ok, I'll stop there.

BL: Chida, I could care less where you live man. If you want to live in Japan, Australia, Nigeria, wherever...I'm all about people making their own personal decisions. But if you say something like 'the weather in Antarctica is better than in the lower 48 States', then I'm going to call you out and raise the bullshit flag. It's a tough argument to make that 'Japan is the same in the freedom dept'--so either clarify, or be called out. And like I said in an earlier post, I'm not a 'America--fvck yeah!' kind of a guy as I believe our country is going down the shitter. So I'm not picking on Japan or anywhere else, rather I'm just calling it like I see it.

ETA: Forgot to answer your question, no, I have not been to Japan, though hopefully I'll get the opportunity some time to visit. Most of my time overseas has been spent in Europe and in our other glorious locations that we get sent to. Fortunately Japan's constitution was available via google as well as other articles describing things in their country. By all means, let me know if I missed something--if there's more Liberty in Japan than in the US, I may just have to join you there some day.

Edited October 14, 2013 by HeloDude

[hindsight2020]

Saudi paid better than Del Rio. Also, better living conditions

Ouch bra'..kick a man when he's down.... :D

[M2]

I saw this in Germany last month...

€579, it's even listed in this catalog...

I didn't see anything close to that when I was in Japan (also last month)...

[DFRESH]

What caused you to read a magazine called "manlicker"?

[Masshole]

I saw this in Germany last month...

(Gun stuff)

I didn't see anything close to that when I was in Japan (also last month)...

They have man weapons:

[HeloDude]

They have man weapons:

Cool story. I'll still chose a firearm over 's' words.

[SocialD]

They have man weapons:

Cool story. I'll still chose a firearm over 's' words.

[Clayton Bigsby]

days' drive to Butte

I'm just curious why the fuck you'd want to go to Butte?

[deaddebate]

I'm just curious why the fuck you'd want to go to Butte?

I'm guessing it'd be the closest "major" city where I could see the VA, Social Security office, full service Post Office, etc. Just to do whatever mandatory paperwork and administrivia needed doing--certainly not sightseeing.

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk

[Clayton Bigsby]

Well Great Falls or Helena would be a lot closer and a lot less shitty choice of towns driving from Calgary than Butte. And all along I-15. But I hear ya.

Hey, you could join the legions of Albertans buying all their shit here in Great Falls!

Edited October 20, 2013 by Clayton Bigsby

[Groundbounder]

Well Great Falls or Helena would be a lot closer and a lot less shitty choice of towns driving from Calgary than Butte. And all along I-15. But I hear ya.

Hey, you could join the legions of Albertans buying all their shit here in Great Falls!

That and filling up the hospitals to get the care they can't wait for in Canada.

[Lawman]

I saw this in Germany last month...

€579, it's even listed in this catalog...

I didn't see anything close to that when I was in Japan (also last month)...

Having guns in Germany is a pain in the ass. One of the reasons I left mine home when I pcs'd. Just too many hoops to jump through for something as simple as wanting a gun in the house for protection, never mind being subject to a legal system as a forigner.

That's probably the biggest element that would keep me from living in another country after retirement. I loved Phuket, and I could definitely stretch retirement pay comfortably, but I'd also always be the outsider over there. Which is fine... Until shit goes wrong.

[Grady]

Has anyone looked at the expat colonies in Mexico? The wife and I are going to checkout Ajijic. There's a lot of appeal...

Great climate year round

30-40% cheaper on average

Family of 4 can live very well on $2000/mo

It's Americanized enough so that language is not an issue

Still close to the US and easy access to GDL

[backseatdriver]

Has anyone looked at the expat colonies in Mexico? The wife and I are going to checkout Ajijic. There's a lot of appeal...

Great climate year round

30-40% cheaper on average

Family of 4 can live very well on $2000/mo

It's Americanized enough so that language is not an issue

Still close to the US and easy access to GDL

...until the cartels show up...

[morenoj135]

Has anyone looked at the expat colonies in Mexico? The wife and I are going to checkout Ajijic. There's a lot of appeal...

Great climate year round
30-40% cheaper on average
Family of 4 can live very well on $2000/mo
It's Americanized enough so that language is not an issue
Still close to the US and easy access to GDL

Cartels, corrupt cops, corrupt politicians, and that's just the bigger threats. The colonies look appealing but Mexico can be more jacked up than you might expect, we lived there a couple of years. And of course, no weapons allowed unless you go through more BS than you can imagine.

Edited October 22, 2013 by morenoj135

[hobbitcid]

I retired and went to work for an international organization in Europe. We miss the states and get back fairly often but we could not find another job that has the same level of pay and benefits we have here. So we'll stay as long as they let us or until I reach mandatory retirement age. Here are some pros and cons based on my own individual experience:

Pros: Great infrastructure, food and drink, awesome opportunities to travel and experience other cultures close by, low level of violent crime (no guns), medical care is decent though it’s a little bureaucratic.

Cons: Much higher cost for everything except medical care (housing, energy, phone, cars, fuel, food, drinks, entertainment, etc.), rules for everything (bureaucracy on steroids), and International schools are pricey (22K for the American School, the DODDS school and nearly the same for the British school). Property crime is fairly high, the police don't even come out if your car is broken into and a call to report the incident is a pay line (1-900) at 10 Euro cents/minute. They get very testy if you use the local "911" to report anything but a violent attack or a home invasion in progress. Further, unless you are in the UK or Ireland, everything is in the national language, even if the locals all speak english (NLD, NOR, DNK, SWE, FIN, BEL Flanders). Also very limited options for spouse employment, limited options for additional education, limited options for sports clubs, liesure clubs, etc. Finally, its just not home - you are away from your extended family for what seems like an indefinite period. We've missed a lot of family events (graduations, birthday parties, anniversaries, weddings, etc) because it takes 10 hours to get home and almost 3K USD to get there.

Essentially, it’s all about what you expect and what you are going to do. If I was "retired" I would not be living here permanently. It’s safe, clean and friendly but again, its not home. When I was stationed in the PI back in the '80s, we had a bunch of EXPATS who had married locals living in town. Most spent their days hanging out at a local bar getting pickled. The one guy who really seemed to thrive had a business (not a bar) and was doing OK but was up against the local government all the time.

Renouncing citizenship is a radical step. I have two friends (1 X ex-USN and 1 X ex-US Army) who married locals in NLD and NOR then renounced to stay in the country with their wives. Both had to learn the local language and culture then take a test prior to being awarded their new resident cards before their citizenship. Unlike the USA most countries require new residents to speak the national language fluently. If you can't pass the test, you are gone...

Ideally we would like to buy an apartment over in Germany and a condo someplace warm in the USA, and then be one of those bi-continental families. We met a couple of them in Tuscany a couple of years ago and they were having a blast - but... It’s more expensive to live that way.

So on balance, there are benefits and drawbacks everywhere. For us the draw is the job and the benefits that go with it. For others it’s the culture or the cost or the location...

[Grady]

Cartels, corrupt cops, corrupt politicians, and that's just the bigger threats. The colonies look appealing but Mexico can be more jacked up than you might expect, we lived there a couple of years. And of course, no weapons allowed unless you go through more BS than you can imagine.

I guess it's all about expectations...corruption, bureaucracy, and narco violence are always a problem. Ironically you could say the same thing about Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, etc. Chicago had over 500 murders last year, the politicians in Springfield are some of the most corrupt and bureaucratic in the country. Would you avoid the state of Illinois because of Chicago? At least in Mexico they are honest about their corruption.

In the US most people assume that they leave these problems behind by moving to the suburbs or a rural area. I currently live in a rural area and work in a major city, one would think there aren't many issues. Just in the past few months there have been 26 B&Es, murders, assaults, etc all because of meth and anytime you go to a walmart it looks like a renassiance fair. It's very difficult to escape in the SE. On top of that, when the treason lobby in the Senate pushes through immigration reform, 25 years from now what will be the difference? The America that we would like to have is gone and not coming back.

The only option I see is the growing Redoubt movement in the NW or understanding reality and look for a way out. The idea of working until I'm 60-65 is not appealing to me. If we went somewhere where I can retire at 43, annuitize my retirement savings using 72t and have better QOL, then I've gotta look at that option.

[mcbush]

At least in Mexico they are honest about their corruption.

I chuckled.

On top of that, when the treason lobby in the Senate pushes through immigration reform, 25 years from now what will be the difference? The America that we would like to have is gone and not coming back.

What America is that?

Edited October 22, 2013 by skytaco

[HeloDude]

Would you avoid the state of Illinois because of Chicago?

Yes, yes I would and will.

At least in Mexico they are honest about their corruption.

Doesn't make me feel more comfortable about living there.

On top of that, when the treason lobby in the Senate pushes through immigration reform, 25 years from now what will be the difference? The America that we would like to have is gone and not coming back.

Agreed, though why live in a City/State (ie Chicago or Illinois) that makes it worse?

The only option I see is the growing Redoubt movement in the NW or understanding reality and look for a way out.

It doesn't have to be the 'Redoubt Movement' as a lot of people don't agree with that philosophy (I agree with some of their points, others, not so much), but just where you want to be in general when things start going wrong.

[SocialD]

Unlike the USA most countries require new residents to speak the national language fluently. If you can't pass the test, you are gone...

What a novel concept...

I guess it's all about expectations...corruption, bureaucracy, and narco violence are always a problem. Ironically you could say the same thing about Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, etc. Chicago had over 500 murders last year, the politicians in Springfield are some of the most corrupt and bureaucratic in the country. Would you avoid the state of Illinois because of Chicago? At least in Mexico they are honest about their corruption.

Yes, I will. I will also avoid NJ, NY and CA...CO is on shaky ground as well. A good college friend of mine has a very lucrative corporate flying gig in Chicago, but quickly moved well out into the country (northern Indiana...not Gary!), mainly for crime/tax/gun ownership reasons.

One of the big factors in deciding on the Airline career was the ability to live wherever I wanted and not have a huge affect on my earnings potential (cost of living doesn't hurt either). I will avoid living in or around any large city as much as possible (but still live within short call range). Small towns, while not totally immune to crime, are where I choose to raise a family. People are more genuine, have a greater sense of community, and generally are good, hard-working Americans. Any given day, I can roll into the barber shop and there will be 6-9 people there...no one getting a hair cut. Everyone knows everyone by name and as an aside, this is a great place to get sage advice on your next big project (the old timers seem to know a little bit about a lot!). I can stop in the town diner and my breakfast shows up just how I like it, without having to order (unless I want to get crazy and switch it up!). Crime is the exception, not the rule.

Our country is not what it once was, but it's still a damn good place to live and I would not trade it for anywhere. We have our problems for sure, but what place doesn't? I have experienced many other cultures, in many different countries...I like mine better! I can own guns, live where I chose, not taxed at a ridiculous rate, can travel freely, not worried about outside attack/drug cartels/roving factions murdering me, have a say in elections, don't fear corrupt police, can voice my displeasure with my govt., etc, etc,etc.... So I guess you could say, I have zero desire to ever leave this country, aside from deployments/occasional vacations. Even then, there is plenty to see here in the US. We have it damn good here in America! Some states...better than others.

I'm not saying that you can't find all this outside the US. For those who go looking, I truly hope you find your Shangri-La.

In the US most people assume that they leave these problems behind by moving to the suburbs or a rural area. I currently live in a rural area and work in a major city, one would think there aren't many issues. Just in the past few months there have been 26 B&Es, murders, assaults, etc all because of meth and anytime you go to a walmart it looks like a renassiance fair.

I guess that depends upon your idea of rural. The town in which I currently live, with 100 being the national average, has a murder rate of 16 and Robbery Rate of 14 (Chicago is 351 and 444, respectively). Most of the very rare murder cases, the parties knew each other (ie...domestic disturbances).

It's very difficult to escape in the SE.

AHHA! I have found your problem...

Edited October 23, 2013 by SocialD

[scoobs]

...until the cartels show up...

They don't bother you unless you bother them.