AMC to ACC?

[Muscle2002]

Fair enough, but I think you know what I meant.

I did--my post was not to quibble, but to only point out the reality of today to the younger folks like the original poster.

[Wing Sweep]

'2'

Also have patches as stateside execs (or soon to be deployed wing execs).

Unsat! This, among many other things needs to be fixed...yesterday. Also, what Wing/CC on earth would take away a patch to an exec job? Maybe the better question is why?

Back on subject...JackaL, if you want to go AMC to fighters (which is what I think the intent of this thread was), do your time and a couple of years prior to getting out, start rushing Guard fighter squadrons. Your chances in the Guard are better. Without a cross flow on active duty right now, your chances are slim to none.

Short story...Two dudes I met (both tanker guys) while I was at 38 PIT did their AD time, punched out, and got fighter Guard squadrons to pick them up. Did life suck for them for a while...YES - They had to learn a whole different style of flying, a different culture, and a different pilot role (single seat, fighter wingman vs AC in a crew aircraft). Was it worth it? I bet for them, it was. They wanted to fly fighters and they are doing that now. They didn't give two shits about anything other than the fact they were realizing their dreams. Food for thought.

Edited June 18, 2012 by g2s

[GoAround]

They wanted to fly fighters and they are doing that now. They didn't give two shits about anything other than the fact they were realizing their dreams. Food for thought.

A lot of folks don't have the balls to do just that...follow their dreams. Big ups to those 2 guys.

[Fast_N_Low135]

A lot of folks don't have the balls to do just that...follow their dreams. Big ups to those 2 guys.

Especially when one of them washed out of the B-course.

[Guest]

DOH!

[pawnman]

Unsat! This, among many other things needs to be fixed...yesterday. Also, what Wing/CC on earth would take away a patch to an exec job? Maybe the better question is why?

We're sending one to be the WG/CC exec at a deployed location pretty soon.

[Chuck17]

Unsat! This, among many other things needs to be fixed...yesterday. Also, what Wing/CC on earth would take away a patch to an exec job? Maybe the better question is why?

Speaking as one, who hasn't been one....

WG/CC's do that to take care of a guy who went to WIC and served some time as the Patch, but needs to be taken care of, or needs a push... Remember, "Like promotes like..."

Far be it from me to speculate, but from my own observations, there are sometimes dudes who need a bullet or a push from on high because they were late bloomers, or their timing otherwise just sucked, or some other reason has the deck stacked against them and they are otherwise hard workers and good dudes. Going off to be the exec checks a box. Don't think that the AMC guys have the market cornered on box-checking. Pointy nosed guys are just as guilty.

From what I have seen, it also has to do with the fact that many less-than-familiar upper-echelon commanders inevitably have a patch work for them at some point in their career, and suddenly they MUST have a patch work for them all the time, or they make billet "Y" a W-coded billet. And while the WIC and A3 work to kill that shit on a semi-annual basis, it still happens more often than you'd think.

THAT is why Patches go off to do random-nerd-taskings (read: exec jobs). Good or bad is your call. For example, when a Patch works for "the boss" and becomes the "#1 Major of 800 in my MAJCOM", that dude is now a 2-Below, School-Select and on their way to being a general officer. It happens. Good or bad is a judgement call and depends on your point of view...

Chuck

[Guest]

Word.

FWIW, my original point was W-prefix as a shield from ALO/RPA type bad deals.

[BigFreddie]

And remember: This "fighter pilot shortage" is NOT about empty cockpits sitting on the ramp. It's about all the "other" jobs out there that require an 11F.

And some of those slots even accept 11Ms...

[joe1234]

It seems like there are two logical conclusions, as there will never just be fighter jets parked on the ramp due to lack of pilots:

The air force changes the way they do promotions because their 11Fs can't occupy those promotion friendly jobs, or those jobs requiring tactical fighter expertise simply go unfilled, or are filled with unqualified people.

Since AF leadership is too stubborn to reevaluate the way they promote, we can expect a corresponding degrade in the tactical expertise across the board. Squadrons will trend younger and inexperienced, and so will those tactical expert jobs. It's all part of the greater hollowing out of the force that will happen these next 4 years.

But, I don't really have a dog in that fight, so this is all quite entertaining to me.

[Swizzle]

What I don't understand is why the AF doesn't eliminate more "middle-leader manager" jobs and replace with comparable technology with great (not underfunded) management information systems or executive information systems? There is administrative crap the FGO corps do that could be automated.

I understand there are supposed to be systems out there to meet this requirement; but it appears they're underfunded, misused, and/or misunderstood from my Wing level and below vantage point. Big Blue has overlapping systems processing the same information. For example, why do squadrons use PEX, GDSS 2, and ARMS to process flying beans and generate reports? That's dumb. (Just a small impact level example btw)

Why can't Big Blue actually use computer information systems to generate the reports they need or automate processes which are already defined by AFI? It's not like our middle managers change the way we do things by AFI, save running waivers?

Would not getting our information systems feces together help reduce staff requirements and get more bodies in cockpits?

- Great, we can admin opponents and ourselves to death,

Swizz

[Danger41]

What I don't understand is why the AF doesn't eliminate more "middle-leader manager" jobs and replace with comparable technology with great (not underfunded) management information systems or executive information systems? There is administrative crap the FGO corps do that could be automated.

I understand there are supposed to be systems out there to meet this requirement; but it appears they're underfunded, misused, and/or misunderstood from my Wing level and below vantage point. Big Blue has overlapping systems processing the same information. For example, why do squadrons use PEX, GDSS 2, and ARMS to process flying beans and generate reports? That's dumb. (Just a small impact level example btw)

Why can't Big Blue actually use computer information systems to generate the reports they need or automate processes which are already defined by AFI? It's not like our middle managers change the way we do things by AFI, save running waivers?

Would not getting our information systems feces together help reduce staff requirements and get more bodies in cockpits?

- Great, we can admin opponents and ourselves to death,

Swizz

I wouldn't trust a company that sunk half a billion into DTS to come up with more/effective computer management systems. Good thought though.

[Seriously]

For example, when a Patch works for "the boss" and becomes the "#1 Major of 800 in my MAJCOM", that dude is now a 2-Below, School-Select and on their way to being a general officer. It happens. Good or bad is a judgement call and depends on your point of view...

Chuck

That strat is bogus.

[Majestik Møøse]

I wouldn't trust a company that sunk half a billion into DTS to come up with more/effective computer management systems. Good thought though.

A SSgt boom operator in my Sq just showed me a bean/currency tracker program that he built. He taught himself Python on a deployment and built this thing for free on a weekend. It's stand-alone software, not an Excel or Access product. The AF way overpays for software like this because the guys in charge have zero SA on the subject.

That strat is bogus.

The entire idea of strats is bogus.

[RTB]

That strat is bogus.

Completely bogus. Yet it happens. I know 2 guys who received very similar strats. Classic WIC super stars and both great dudes but they fully admit there's no way they could be accurately ranked above every other O-4. Of course they didn't complain! If you want to move up quickly, it pays to work for the man I guess. Personally, I was never offered such an 'opportunity'. Which is just fine.