What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Runr6730]

Agreed. Although SOS has its faults, it's still to this day the most fun I've had on an 8-week TDY in my career as a flyer (which is really saying something). Lots of camaraderie built up through daily drunken shenanigans and weekend trips to Taladega, Destin, Atlanta and the like. 

[panchbarnes]

Nothing is worse than partying with good dudes at SOS and then finding out they got RIFed while at SOS.  Flight morale went into the tank and shit got awkward real fast.

[HuggyU2]

13 minutes ago, Runr6730 said:

 it's still to this day the most fun I've had on an 8-week TDY in my career as a flyer 

I'm glad you enjoyed it... but wow.  The only time I've really thought of SOS in the past decade is seeing this thread.  

I've had some great TDY's, and none of them were at Maxwell.  

Certainly not a reflection on you, but the fact that this was the best long-TDY in your career is indicative of "what's wrong with the Air Force".  

[sqwatch]

Don't underestimate the value of boozing with a bunch of folks outside of your career field. Some call that networking and it is tax deductible. Many lessons have been learned over a few cold ones. Boozing with your bros is part of the SOS experience and along with the sober discussions, I found it valuable. If anything, I learned that not all officers are created equal.

 

[dream big]

One of the only valuable part of SOS was the promotion board excercise.  Taught me how and why pilots with perfectly clean records get passed over during a pilot shortage.  I also learned that your record could be looked at by someone in the med group who won't tell the difference between a copilot/wingman and a weapons officer.  It is why I strongly believe that we need to have separate rated boards.

The fact that a few games of dodgeball, some obstacle courses and war gaming has the biggest influence on your career potential as an Air Force officer speaks volumes about what is wrong with the Air Force.  I met some cool people from different career fields and enjoyed the southern culture from an overseas base but overall, a screwed up program.

 

[panchbarnes]

13 minutes ago, dream big said:

One of the only valuable part of SOS was the promotion board excercise.  Taught me how and why pilots with perfectly clean records get passed over during a pilot shortage. 

Actually, I thought the promotion board exercise was flawed and outdated.  As of few years ago, we were still doing paper exercises that led to the conclusion that a coffee making/party planning USAFE staff/exec was more accomplished than someone who deployed a lot.  Also the cadre was perpetuating the myth that the board only had ~30 seconds to review/score before moving on to the next package (STS), despite showing everyone a separate AFPC video highlighting the updated computer scoring system and how the O-6s had much more time to scrutinize and deliberate the PRFs/OPRs.

 

13 minutes ago, dream big said:

  I also learned that your record could be looked at by someone in the med group who won't tell the difference between a copilot/wingman and a weapons officer.  It is why I strongly believe that we need to have separate rated boards.

people really need to learn to get away from the cool acronyms and dumb down the bullets for the masses...

Edited August 2, 2017 by panchbarnes

[pawnman]

5 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

I had a great time at SOS. 

7 hour days, booze, golf...it was awesome. 

Then again I didn't volunteer for the commanders think tank 

There's a commanders think tank? Man, I must have gone astray in my career...I was never even approached about a think tank.

 

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, panchbarnes said:

Actually, I thought the promotion board exercise was flawed and outdated.  As of few years ago, we were still doing paper exercises that led to the conclusion that a coffee making/party planning USAFE staff/exec was more accomplished than someone who deployed a lot.  Also the cadre was perpetuating the myth that the board only had ~30 seconds to review/score before moving on to the next package (STS), despite showing everyone a separate AFPC video highlighting the updated computer scoring system and how the O-6s had much more time to scrutinize and deliberate the PRFs/OPRs.

 

people really need to learn to get away from the cool acronyms and dumb down the bullets for the masses...

Seems to square with the last promotion board. We had a rated officer with a DP passed over for LtCol in the last board. One of the reasons given in his AFPC feedback was a lack of FGO awards.

[Homestar]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

....a rated officer with a DP passed over for LtCol in the last board. 

Not the 0.1% he/she was hoping for no doubt. 

[SnapLock]

On 8/2/2017 at 3:56 PM, dream big said:

One of the only valuable part of SOS was the promotion board excercise.  Taught me how and why pilots with perfectly clean records get passed over during a pilot shortage.  I also learned that your record could be looked at by someone in the med group who won't tell the difference between a copilot/wingman and a weapons officer.  It is why I strongly believe that we need to have separate rated boards.

The fact that a few games of dodgeball, some obstacle courses and war gaming has the biggest influence on your career potential as an Air Force officer speaks volumes about what is wrong with the Air Force.  I met some cool people from different career fields and enjoyed the southern culture from an overseas base but overall, a screwed up program.

 

^^^THIS!!!^^^ So much! SOS was very depressing for me because I realized just how screwed up the Air Force was overall. I knew that day that I'd be punching. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by SnapLock

[pawnman]

47 minutes ago, SnapLock said:

^^^THIS!!!^^^ So much! SOS was a very depressing day for me because I realized just how screwed up the Air Force was overall. I knew that day that I'd be punching. 

I thought the same thing the day we learned about AF budgeting.  We were all talking about what a BS process was, and only one guy in the class saw the value: "Look, now we know how it works.  Until you know how the system works, you can't bend the system to your will."

[Duck]

My favorite was the Air Force 4-Star IG, standing up and telling us that the inspection process was broken, there was nothing he could do about it but it was up to us Captains to fix it.  

[SurelySerious]

2 hours ago, Duck said:

My favorite was the Air Force 4-Star IG, standing up and telling us that the inspection process was broken, there was nothing he could do about it but it was up to us Captains to fix it.  

Similarly enjoyed the flying-the-nukes OG spending an hour of our time saying, "it's not my fault, there's nothing I could have done, and I'm not sure why I'm talking to you."

[MDDieselPilot]

22 hours ago, pawnman said:

Seems to square with the last promotion board. We had a rated officer with a DP passed over for LtCol in the last board. One of the reasons given in his AFPC feedback was a lack of FGO awards.

Seems like a trend.. buddy of mine was passed over last year (for O5) and AFPC said it was likely because he didn't have any FGO awards.  Interesting world we live in.

[Herk Driver]

On 8/1/2017 at 2:10 PM, ClearedHot said:

I went to SOS (under protest), 60 days after I pinned on O-3...Being the most "junior" guy there I actually had to pull CQ duty one weekend to sign people in and out. 

If the A-10 pilot's Wing/CC has any sack he would elevate this until he was told to pound sand by SECAF.  I know someone on the board knows the SOS/CC, please tell him to pull the bottom of his ears as hard as possible until he hears a loud popping sound.

I wonder if the Wing/CC called Killer?  Is he still the AU/CC...I am sure he would not put up with this unless there is more to the story.

[VMFA187]

A "GAO Fighter Pilot Manning Working Group," whatever that means, is coming to Miramar tomorrow to interview/discuss why everyone is leaving. Separate meeting for Commanders and Co Grade. Should be interesting.

[MooseAg03]

A "GAO Fighter Pilot Manning Working Group," whatever that means, is coming to Miramar tomorrow to interview/discuss why everyone is leaving. Separate meeting for Commanders and Co Grade. Should be interesting.

Please, for the love of God don't say "it's not about the money."

[ATIS]

1 hour ago, VMFA187 said:

A "GAO Fighter Pilot Manning Working Group," whatever that means, is coming to Miramar tomorrow to interview/discuss why everyone is leaving. Separate meeting for Commanders and Co Grade. Should be interesting.

Would love to see the "raw" results/notes from both of those groups to compare and contrast. 

ATIS

[FlyinGrunt]

Did my exit survey today and DEFINITELY did not say "it's not about the money."  Not the #1, but it was def #2 or #3.

I did think that it was funny that they asked "how much of a bonus would you need" and then capped it at $60K.  Sorry boss, Cannon will cost you WAY more than that.  Like $400K.  After taxes.

Edited August 4, 2017 by FlyinGrunt
Insufficient raging

[pawnman]

12 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

A "GAO Fighter Pilot Manning Working Group," whatever that means, is coming to Miramar tomorrow to interview/discuss why everyone is leaving. Separate meeting for Commanders and Co Grade. Should be interesting.

We just hosted that meeting with Gen Rand here at Dyess.  Unfortunately (fortunately?) I was flying and didn't get to attend.  I'm looking forward to hearing what the results were.  Same thing: meeting with commanders, CGOs, and FGOs separately.

[VMFA187]

12 hours ago, MooseAg03 said:

 

 

Please, for the love of God don't say "it's not about the money."

 

That won't be a problem. Personally, I'd rather them take the bonus money, and hire dedicated civilians for all the ground jobs to take care of all the administrative duties so we can focus on what is important, rather than keeping all the collateral work and getting paid more. But money is clearly part of the issue for people with the amount of money that we all have had invested in us who have the available options we do.

Edited August 4, 2017 by VMFA187

[PlanePhlyer]

Anybody heard of the Second Assignment In Place plan potentially coming out?  Read some specifics on it the other day, can't say I'm all that impressed. 

[Guest]

Anybody heard of the Second Assignment In Place plan potentially coming out?  Read some specifics on it the other day, can't say I'm all that impressed. 

Haven't heard anything about it. What's the gist?

[magnetfreezer]

10 hours ago, pawnman said:

We just hosted that meeting with Gen Rand here at Dyess.  Unfortunately (fortunately?) I was flying and didn't get to attend.  I'm looking forward to hearing what the results were.  Same thing: meeting with commanders, CGOs, and FGOs separately.

Question (to paraphrase): If the AF is so concerned about rated retention, why the lower promotion rates for rated on the recent boards

Answer/analogy: The quarterback is the star player on the football team, but we need to remember that the game couldn't happen without everyone else, even the waterboy.

I'm pretty sure I have less training to do to become a waterboy for the Patriots than to replace Tom Brady...

Also, if we think we have it bad because of XXX, we need to go to see those in Walter Reed and reconsider if we really have it that bad.

[VMFA187]

The meeting was comprised of two individuals who are tasked to create a report to the Senate Armed Services Committee to be published at the end of the calendar year. They were simply here to listen to fighter pilots and get an answer for A) if retention is actually an issue or will be, and if so, B) why? Salient points were communicated and we were told that in their meetings with higher levels of service members, only one service, and you can guess which one, has admitted it has a fighter pilot retention problem. They are also the only ones who are coming up with possible solutions.