What's wrong with the Air Force?

[hatedont]

45 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:

Probably a non-starter.  For every person at a good location who they retain through homesteading, they'll lose someone who is dying to escape from a shithole.

After my commitment is up give me my base of preference no matter where I want to go for 4 years or a 1-2 year bonus. You can't take both. One or the other. Stop trying to hand out 365s at the end of a career or commitment which causes people to become more jaded. Base of preference for the old guys or a 1-2 year bonus and you might give guys something to look forward to in my opinion.

Edited May 19, 2017 by hatedont

[Clark Griswold]

1 hour ago, magnetfreezer said:

Good words, I think it is somewhat of a filter and check that they have the right mentality. In addition, to lead tactical aviators, you are making a lot of tactical decisions (FEASCAPs, changing regs, ranking for upgrades, backing up your crews when an incident happens). To have credibility in those decisions you need to either have the experience to understand what you are talking about or listen to subordinates who are the experts, since most can't seem to do the latter they need the former.

 

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

There's a lot to be said for your leadership to understand the challenges, stresses, and limitations of your job.  How does a commander know who is the #1 IP if he doesn't have enough knowledge in the jet to tell good instruction from bad instruction?  How does a SQ/CC or OG/CC make sound decisions regarding things like waivers, or exercises, or sortie turn patterns if they haven't been subjected to any of them for over a decade?

Valid points and my argument / point is one of a matter of degrees, I'm not sure if it (the level of personal operational skill determined to be necessary for an AF leader to have to be creditable) can be uniformly captured across all platforms be they manned/unmanned, aircraft, missiles, space, MX, logistics, intel, etc... but it's like the difference between art vs. pornography, you know when you see it. 

The AF is not structured this way but if I had my druthers we would define the purpose of a tour or billet more explicitly than we do now with a somewhat specific career goal expressed for the member and his / her leadership to work towards.  This assignment is to build operational skill and experience, this tour is to develop your operational leadership, etc...

[HU&W]

7 hours ago, hatedont said:

I don't see Bill Gates writing code for programs.

From the mid-70's to at least the mid-90's, Bill Gates brilliance in writing code spawned and then carried Microsoft.  As he developed from a tactical leader to a strategic leader, the time and energy he had put into coding became infinitely valuable to him.  It provided a bedrock of experience, enabling him to evaluate COAs developed by his underlings, and move the business forward.  He may not have proficiency in today's programming languages (I don't know, maybe he does) but he's a master at the language of his profession, at leading and guiding the code writers that he once was.

Barring a few crazy outliers, a person doesn't master the language of war without first having been a participant in combat, and not the 'everyone's a warrior' or 'I only had 3 beers a day at the died' kind.

[hatedont]

6 minutes ago, HU&W said:

He may not have proficiency in today's programming languages (I don't know, maybe he does) but he's a master at the language of his profession, at leading and guiding the code writers that he once was.

Bill Gates was no Steve Jobs. Steve had his fingers all in the kool aid. But after his death, Apple's innovation died. I would insert Steve into your example as a better example. And I refuse to buy an iPhone.

[HU&W]

7 minutes ago, hatedont said:

Bill Gates was no Steve Jobs. Steve had his fingers all in the kool aid. But after his death, Apple's innovation died. I would insert Steve into your example as a better example. And I refuse to buy an iPhone.

No, he wasn't.  Early on, Gates needed Jobs vision, and Jobs needed Gates proficiency.  Steve Jobs had a natural gift for connecting the dots, and for connecting Gates work to the average person's need.  After they split, the readily stole/acquired/supplanted/and even subsidized one another's work for decades.  Jobs is definitely a better model for visionary strategic leadership combined with tactical ignorance.

[hatedont]

5 minutes ago, HU&W said:

No, he wasn't.  Early on, Gates needed Jobs vision, and Jobs needed Gates proficiency.  Steve Jobs had a natural gift for connecting the dots, and for connecting Gates work to the average person's need.  After they split, the readily stole/acquired/supplanted/and even subsidized one another's work for decades.  Jobs is definitely a better model for visionary strategic leadership combined with tactical ignorance.

So true, Bill Gates is the one who actually saved Apple by funding them. Competition is a good thing.

[Guardian]

So we are arguing about bill gates and the apple guy on a Friday? YGBSM.


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[pawnman]

5 hours ago, Champ Kind said:

Because that doesn't matter. Third tier strat, at best.

"That' doesn't matter"...until it's time to pick your flight lead for night one, or deciding who is leading your Red Flag push, or otherwise executing your most challenging sorties.

 

It's not about the strat...it's about being able to recognize that performance in others.

[Champ Kind]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

"That' doesn't matter"...until it's time to pick your flight lead for night one, or deciding who is leading your Red Flag push, or otherwise executing your most challenging sorties.

 

It's not about the strat...it's about being able to recognize that performance in others.

I was being sarcastic and whole-heartedly agree with you.

I don't think that type of expertise is recognized or rewarded in the current state of affairs.

[17D_guy]

11 hours ago, Guardian said:

So we are arguing about bill gates and the apple guy on a Friday? YGBSM.


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My kind of place.

[dream big]

16 hours ago, Champ Kind said:

Because that doesn't matter. Third tier strat, at best.

The only strats/awards I've gotten are pilot/IP.  Those mean more to me than any CGO strat/award fruitified by volunteering at the CGOC bullets.  

[hatedont]

44 minutes ago, dream big said:

The only strats/awards I've gotten are pilot/IP.  Those mean more to me than any CGO strat/award fruitified by volunteering at the CGOC bullets.  

I wouldn't stipulate only volunteering gets you CGO strats and awards. You are misleading some of the younger guys here. I've seen people who do not volunteer but have received those awards and strats as SOFs. You are are making decisions on the behalf of the OG/CC as a SOF.

Does volunteering at a soup kitchen sound better on a package? Or landing all the aircraft in the pattern and clearing the runway for the arrival of an IFE aircraft with the OG/CC on board? 

Edited May 20, 2017 by hatedont

[magnetfreezer]

Or landing all the aircraft in the pattern and clearing the runway for the arrival of an IFE aircraft with the OG/CC on board? 

Don't disagree on the volunteering, and I don't know if the tower chief could possibly have handled that situation at a base (such as AMC or Navy) without a SOF.

[Guest]

The only strats/awards I've gotten are pilot/IP.  Those mean more to me than any CGO strat/award fruitified by volunteering at the CGOC bullets.  

What type of strat you get has nothing to do with actual performance in that particular area and everything to do with what tier of stratification you end up getting. I once got 11/269 IPs in my OG. Was I actually the #11 IP? No phucking way! Stratification within your rank is first tier, CGO/FGO/year group/duty position are all inferior strats. #1/50 Capts is better than #1/100 CGOs (unless you're getting this as a Lt) and better than #1/100 IPs


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[Duck]

Stratification within your rank is first tier, CGO/FGO/year group/duty position are all inferior strats. #1/50 Capts is better than #1/100 CGOs (unless you're getting this as a Lt) and better than #1/100 IPs

Not to get into this argument again, but not all SRs agree with that. My base doesn't even give out strats based on rank (#1 Capt, Maj, etc) but only CGO, FGO, job strats (ADO, Flt/CC) and finally IP strats.


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[GKinnear]

7 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

Stratification within your rank is first tier, CGO/FGO/year group/duty position are all inferior strats. #1/50 Capts is better than #1/100 CGOs (unless you're getting this as a Lt) and better than #1/100 IPs

1 hour ago, Duck said:

Not to get into this argument again, but not all SRs agree with that. My base doesn't even give out strats based on rank (#1 Capt, Maj, etc) but only CGO, FGO, job strats (ADO, Flt/CC) and finally IP strats.
 

 

You're both right and wrong...it depends.

I've seen Sq/OG/Wg strats of all flavors that were far removed from reality and had given the officer in question a incorrect sense of accomplishment.

The other side of the coin is the #1 CGO (out of several hundred) was a Group Weapon Officer, who also locked up the #1 IP strat at the OG, and held them both for quite awhile.

You could argue that both #1's going to the same person is unfair, or that it accurately reflected his shred out when compared to his peers.

IMO, the problem with the strat process, in the AF as a whole, is a lack of transparency. I'm not saying its nefarious as Commander's schedules are busy and they might not always have the ability to speak to officers on why Capt Snuffy got X and you got Y strats. If you have questions, make the effort to make an appointment and ask the boss. Strive for the honest feedback and put yourself in his shoes and do an honest comparison against your peers. Ask questions from that point of view. Find out what factors (both subjective and objective) are important to your boss, your boss's boss, etc and how you improve. 

 

 

[Air V]

Which strat does Delta care about?

[BFM this]

34 minutes ago, Air V said:

Which strat does Delta care about?

My #1/25 pick for DD214

[dream big]

1 hour ago, Air V said:

Which strat does Delta care about?

Funny enough they look at OPRs for interviews...although I'm pretty sure it's to make sure there are no negative indicators

[17D_guy]

2 hours ago, GKinnear said:

If you have questions, make the effort to make an appointment and ask the boss. Strive for the honest feedback and put yourself in his shoes and do an honest comparison against your peers. Ask questions from that point of view. Find out what factors (both subjective and objective) are important to your boss, your boss's boss, etc and how you improve. 

I'm probably in the minority here because there's facets of the strat process I really like.  I'm a simple dude, and the simple number makes it an easy goal for me to shoot for.  It's a common language I can share with every level of leadership above me.  Generally every boss has an idea of what their #1 looks like, for better/worse.

When I don't get the #1, or am not the #1 clearly, I do what GKinnear has said and talk with my boss (or bosses boss).  I've gotten great feedback (leadership focused, not bake sale/CGOC) and it's led to one of the best jobs I've ever had.

I'm old enough now to know how I work, what I value and what I'm willing to do to "succeed" in a given position.  The discussion with the boss will make it clear if this job is worth it.  

For example, I do like my peers and leadership but the current job is not "worth it."  I still work just as hard as I would any other job, and that's generally harder than a lot of fellow CGOs.  When OPR time comes around I don't care what's on there because there's levels of insanity to Staff that will not be mitigated by anyone working supremely hard to get the mission done.

[Weezer]

3 hours ago, GKinnear said:

 

IMO, the problem with the strat process, in the AF as a whole, is a lack of transparency. I'm not saying its nefarious as Commander's schedules are busy and they might not always have the ability to speak to officers on why Capt Snuffy got X and you got Y strats. If you have questions, make the effort to make an appointment and ask the boss. Strive for the honest feedback and put yourself in his shoes and do an honest comparison against your peers. Ask questions from that point of view. Find out what factors (both subjective and objective) are important to your boss, your boss's boss, etc and how you improve. 

 

 

I wish I'd had the benefit of this advice 8-10 years ago.  I went 4 years in a unit, and the only stray I got was "#X/XX as group CGOQ."  The one time I asked what it asked to actually get a strat, my boss, who had been the CGO assignments officer for my career field at AFPC, lied and said "X/XX as award winner IS a good  strat."

I didn't figure out how hard I'd been screwed until three years later, when an O-6 sat me down and told me I was a good officer and a hard worker, but I was probably not going to able to make Lt Col and was very likely to get RIFed because of those non-strat years.

Super bad on me for not better knowing what it takes to get promoted and even worse on me for not asking harder.

[hatedont]

47 minutes ago, Weezer said:

I wish I'd had the benefit of this advice 8-10 years ago.  I went 4 years in a unit, and the only stray I got was "#X/XX as group CGOQ."  The one time I asked what it asked to actually get a strat, my boss, who had been the CGO assignments officer for my career field at AFPC, lied and said "X/XX as award winner IS a good  strat."

I didn't figure out how hard I'd been screwed until three years later, when an O-6 sat me down and told me I was a good officer and a hard worker, but I was probably not going to able to make Lt Col and was very likely to get RIFed because of those non-strat years.

Super bad on me for not better knowing what it takes to get promoted and even worse on me for not asking harder.

Some people in AF are biased as hell. There will always be a cool kids club in the AF. Bros taking care of bros. I take care of everyone, especially the dudes people tend to kick to the curb because they might be strange.

Don't beat yourself up when people claiming to be leaders, ultimately failed you.

[olevelo]

The biggest problem with the strat game is my #1 is not necessarily anywhere near your #1, and in fact, my #15 (which doesn't even show up on the OPR) might have been in your top 3. We have this problem in the TPS grad community, and I'm guessing there are WIC communities as well, but not as likely since those grads get spread out to other units.


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[Weezer]

4 hours ago, hatedont said:

Some people in AF are biased as hell. There will always be a cool kids club in the AF. Bros taking care of bros. I take care of everyone, especially the dudes people tend to kick to the curb because they might be strange.

Don't beat yourself up when people claiming to be leaders, ultimately failed you.

Are you calling me strange?

[hatedont]

7 hours ago, Weezer said:

Are you calling me strange?

Hell no. Just speaking in general terms that I take care of everyone. This is why the AF is in trouble.