Ammo against the shoe clerks!

[Guest redmammal]

I used to make the call for trans when we'd make our 30 minute out call. Problem is, we'd still be waiting 20 minutes after we shut down. That's almost an hour from initial notification. There were times CP didn't make the call, but often we'd call CP back on the radios after we waited for a while and they'd repeat they had indeed made the call.

I also used to call trans directly to get a ride to the aircraft...myself. I'd call and say "hey, we'll be waiting out front in 15 minutes". It would take an additional 15-20 minutes before a bus arrived, nearly 30-40 minutes after I called trans directly.

I was RONing at a base on the west coast several years ago, when I flew C-21s. We needed to drop by billeting and check out, pick up lunch (no time to get it later), and then head to base ops to flight plan and preflight the jet prior to a DV arriving. We called trans and said we'd be outside our VOQ building. We waited and waited, no trans. After 20-30 minutes, we called them back. Dispatch said the driver showed up but no one was there. I asked if they stopped by our building (and gave them our bldg #)...he confirmed that was the place the driver went to, and he reported that the aircrew was a no show. Funny...we had been out there for half an hour and saw no trans.

I ask the dispatcher to please send the driver back out. We wait another 30 minutes. Now our leisurely timeline of turning in keys and grabbing a bite to eat before sitting in an airplane for 14 hours was going to shit....now we were worried we might not even have time to get the jet ready. I call back again. Dispatcher says the driver is picking up other people, and he'll get to us when he can. I explain that we're flying the 2-star who's office exists on their base, and if we're late taking off, we're blaming it on trans.

Bus shows up in 5 minutes. Driver says he can get us straight over to base ops...I explain "no, you're taking us to billeting, then we're getting lunch...then you can take us to base ops". He seemed pissed, but I'll be damn if this guy was going to lie and say we weren't waiting outside, then ignore our second call, and cost us what's probably the only meal we'll have until we get home. If we're late, he can explain that to the general's staff. We got our keys turned in, got our Subway, and were able to preflight and flight plan on time...they got lucky.

Soooo...I do walk. Nearly every time. The only reason why I say "nearly" is because some of the time (like today), the mx guys that are busting their ass recovering our airplane will offer us a ride.

I wanted to add this...this line pisses me off. Whether you think your job is "cool" or "uncool" is moot. I can damn sure do my job without trans. In fact, I'd rather avoid the entirety of our Air Force "support" system altogether. Case in point: When I flew C-21s, we often flew to civilian airfields. One place we went to often was the Tampa/MacDill area. When given the choice, I ALWAYS chose to fly into TPA instead of MCF. Why? Because I could land the jet, shut down and close up the airplane, have my fuel there, have a rental car and room reservations within 30 minutes or less of rolling onto the civilian airport ramp. If I flew into MacDill, it took hours having to deal with all the hoops and games of dealing with the support functions. I'm NOT kidding you either.

So, I could fly into Tampa International at 5pm and be eating dinner by 6pm. Or I could land at the same time at MacDill AFB and finally be eating dinner by 8-9pm...and I'd get better service too.

I want to ad a disclaimer: I've met some really great support troops (finance, trans, what have you) that did a great job, took pride in their work, and did their best to get a tired and exhausted crew on their way, help a guy get his pay fixed, or assisted someone in getting their records straight. But I've found that's not the norm.

sorry that trans where you have been has not been up to par. yes, there are some dispatchers and drivers that suck. they hate their jobs, so they spread the grief around by making people that dont deserve their stupidity suffer. thanks for that disclaimer though. there are good trans out there, just like there are bomb diggity flyers that make air crew just that much better with their attitude and thanks. but you may not realize that not many flyers can do their job without trans. they arent just air crew drivers, they deliver parts for the planes (that you fly), help bring in base supplies (that you consume), make sure there are vehicles in remote locations (that you borrow), and do convoys across iraq and kuwait. and that line about being uncool was not to piss you off...but to be called uncool is close to being called unimportant. and the statements above prove that trans is more than a taxi service. look up convoys, and see what were trained to do. cool or uncool, trans is needed. maybe not by you, but by alot of bases out there.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

sorry that trans where you have been has not been up to par. yes, there are some dispatchers and drivers that suck. they hate their jobs, so they spread the grief around by making people that dont deserve their stupidity suffer. thanks for that disclaimer though. there are good trans out there, just like there are bomb diggity flyers that make air crew just that much better with their attitude and thanks. but you may not realize that not many flyers can do their job without trans. they arent just air crew drivers, they deliver parts for the planes (that you fly), help bring in base supplies (that you consume), make sure there are vehicles in remote locations (that you borrow), and do convoys across iraq and kuwait. and that line about being uncool was not to piss you off...but to be called uncool is close to being called unimportant. and the statements above prove that trans is more than a taxi service. look up convoys, and see what were trained to do. cool or uncool, trans is needed. maybe not by you, but by alot of bases out there.

I'm quite aware of the logistics of ground transport. I was an Army engineer and was licensed in M920, M916 and M915 semi-tractors. The logistical part of trans isn't what I'm talking about...it's the various "support" agencies in the USAF that aren't so much support as they slow things down or outright hinder getting things done in many cases. I have a friend of mine who only did his 4 years as an O in the USAF after being sent to trans because he didn't like being in charge of so many disgruntled people.

[Skitzo]

Doing something yourself is always easier/better than relying on someone else. Case in point, we recently split into two squadrons and so now I have to drive myself before I step. Does this bother me? No, for the exact reasons spelled out, I'd rather spend my gas and drive to the opposite side of base then depend on base transpo. Oh yeah, we did try to get transpo support but they told us they couldn't accomodate anyways, so whatever. Base Transpo has sucked at every base I've been at except when deployed, that's it.

Thanks to the link on protocol, I think I'll stuff that in my flight suit and whip it out STS when next I am verbally accosted by someone junior to me.

Why can't the new Air Force motto be, every airman is not a warrior. That would fix a lot of problems.

[Fud]

This all sounds like a leadership problem when you look at the big picture. All too often, I see leadership who is not willing to confront the problem and help everyone work together. The commander at those bases should crack the whip and make people get their asses in gear, but that does not happen very much. There are many other processes that suffer these same conditions as well. I know this sounds something like a PME diatribe, but it is true, and leadership is to blame.

[Guest Jango]

Uh, because flyers also wait on trans to take them to the jet as well.

Yea.....about that, see spot 52 is a ramp location, now if it was bld #xx.....that's an outbound, so late take off? No. Again, check the context. And I'll be damned if that storm front hasn't moved! Still lightning w/ in 5nm, and a wind gust advisory too? It's gonna be awhile.....

This all sounds like a leadership problem when you look at the big picture. All too often, I see leadership who is not willing to confront the problem and help everyone work together. The commander at those bases should crack the whip and make people get their asses in gear, but that does not happen very much. There are many other processes that suffer these same conditions as well. I know this sounds something like a PME diatribe, but it is true, and leadership is to blame.

Spot on, and the point I have been trying to make.

[pawnman]

child of scorn, i am not an alias to Jango...i would have to have different plumbing for one. plus, its not fair for flyers to become irate when they arent picked up just as their jet has landed...phone calls have to be made, and the last ones to be called is the bus. dont get mad at us, get mad at the ones who dont dial the numbers fast enough.

sad you cant do your job without the people with the "uncool" jobs. if it was up to me, all ya'll would walk your @$$es to your jets. we dont expect a handshake or a pat on the head, but a "thanks for the ride" is alot better than, "we called 10 minutes ago". blame base ops or command post, not the people who get out there within 5 minutes of getting the call to pick you up.

We've certainly cut transpo from the equation. We make an FNG do it. And he's got a radio at the ops desk. Guess who is at the jet as soon as the ladder drops?

[Vertigo]

Yea.....about that, see spot 52 is a ramp location, now if it was bld #xx.....that's an outbound, so late take off? No. Again, check the context.

Yes- because TACC never changes missions on an aircraft, making them have to fly to a new destination when they have landed at an enroute stop from their previous mission. I guess those flight plans will have to file themselves and those crew meals will get ordered via ESP.

[Guest Jango]

We've certainly cut transpo from the equation. We make an FNG do it. And he's got a radio at the ops desk. Guess who is at the jet as soon as the ladder drops?

Nah, never work. Hey I got an idea....why not get your buddy Capt Marz to drive for you? Or is he too busy at Quiznos keeping the customers safe?

[pawnman]

Nah, never work. Hey I got an idea....why not get your buddy Capt Marz to drive for you? Or is he too busy at Quiznos keeping the customers safe?

What do you mean, never work? I am telling you that is the way we do things. I haven't seen a transpo troop since my last PCS.

[Guest]

Another thread degrades into a Lufbery.

[sky_king]

Jango... You're worse than a woman withholding sex as a punishment. Like has been said before, just take matters into your own hands and there are no strings attached (depending on how you do it).

[PirateAF]

Another thread degrades into a Lufbery.

2

Holy thread derail.

[zrooster99]

Like has been said before, just take matters into your own hands and there are no strings attached (depending on how you do it).

No strings or lube.

[BQZip01]

...its not fair for flyers to become irate when they arent picked up just as their jet has landed...phone calls have to be made, and the last ones to be called is the bus. dont get mad at us, get mad at the ones who dont dial the numbers fast enough.

BULLSHIT!

I call a MINIMUM of 15 minutes prior to landing. Given that I am on a B-52, we'll have another 5-10 minutes of taxiing plus another 10 of postflight at minimum. When we have time to download all our bags, pubs, FLIP, lunches, coolers, etc. and the bus still hasn't arrived while it is well below zero (our sq bros call; we don't leave it up to the CP...truly, they have better stuff to do than call a bus), it's your squadron's fault and we are rightly pissed. I don't care if the driver was on a smoke break, or the dispatcher forgot, or you just don't like your job, it is your squadron's fault collectively.

We have a good relationship with our Trans folks. We treat them well and they help us out.

sad you cant do your job without the people with the "uncool" jobs. if it was up to me, all ya'll would walk your @$$es to your jets. we dont expect a handshake or a pat on the head, but a "thanks for the ride" is alot better than, "we called 10 minutes ago". blame base ops or command post, not the people who get out there within 5 minutes of getting the call to pick you up.

I ALWAYS thank the driver (I repeat, always). So do most of my bros. Most of us are also understanding when people don't arrive because a simple miscommunication. It would be literally impossible for me to walk to my jet (especially in the winter: 3+ miles, 20 below, windchill putting it near 35 below, and icy with no sidewalks), so don't throw that crap out here. We do not have the personnel to take crews to their jet just because you have decided your job isn't worth doing.

Suck it up and (collectively) do your f***ing jobs! Quit bitching about it.

One last story:

When I was flying C-130Es at the schoolhouse, we had to do an ERO for student training. Our ERO block was on the back end of our line, so it made sense to just do it in parking prior to shutting down. We had even gotten an overfly, so when we taxied to park, we were the only Herk with engines still running. When the Nav made the 30 minute out call, he had requested ATOC support for the ERO.

We pulled into parking and the loads stated there was no K-loader in sight, so we called CP again and asked if ATOC was on the way. They said they made the initial call but would check. A few minutes later, CP called back and stated that ATOC was "MOG'd out". My reply was "What's their MOG? Zero?" CP stated "sorry sir, they said they are swamped and too busy to support". Amazing. We're the only airplane with engines running...everyone else had shut down and gone home for the night, and we were the only aircraft in our ERO block to be scheduled with ATOC for an ERO...yet they were "MOG'd out". Interesting.

Too many acronyms to make any sense to a non-AMC guy.

[JarheadBoom]

Too many acronyms to make any sense to a non-AMC guy.

Translation:

Yet another example of a supporting agency not doing their job.

[Whitty]

Man. This thread has had some serious shifts.

[Chuck17]

1. I haven't been in the flying world THAT long, so there are bound to be a few (read: "a lot") of acronyms I don't know, so don't judge the entire CAF on me.

2. You read WAY too much into my reaction. I never said it was unimportant or to be ignored only that I didn't understand what was being said. I left it up to others to either clarify or ignore.

3. I don't know how many personnel the ATOC had on hand, other events for the day, any personnel who were sick/injured, any sudden events that caused them to be short-staffed, etc, but I would certainly follow up and find out why scheduled training was cancelled. Perhaps there was a good reason.

I didnt say it was a bad thing bro. Just an observation. It's one of the hardest things to get past in Integration - the different languages each community uses. I dont read to much into your post. It was spot on. And an opportunity to learn for dudes cross-community. Sorry if I came off as a dick - it was a feeble attempt to prove a point. Offense was not my intent at all...

And yes, it was an effort to back this thread away from the abyss...

Chuck

[Toro]

Man. This thread has had some serious shifts.

Agreed...moved.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

On a positive note, we did a mass airborne insertion with the 82nd Airborne the other night. It was nice to see the entire base pretty much motivated to actually getting the mission done. To anyone at LRF that was involved, aircrew, mx or otherwise, great job getting all the aircraft in the air! All 26 C-130s got down there and did what they were supposed to do...

[Hercster]

Haha, heard about that. Something about a Dyess bird stacking 200' high the whole time and shenanigans with the high speed downwind?

/derailment

[Guest Crew Report]

On a positive note, we did a mass airborne insertion with the 82nd Airborne the other night. It was nice to see the entire base pretty much motivated to actually getting the mission done. To anyone at LRF that was involved, aircrew, mx or otherwise, great job getting all the aircraft in the air! All 26 C-130s got down there and did what they were supposed to do...

I guess that makes up for the troop drop into the trees. The 82nd did the same thing back in 2006 at the air show when I was stationed there.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Haha, heard about that. Something about a Dyess bird stacking 200' high the whole time and shenanigans with the high speed downwind?

/derailment

I wasn't in the legacy formation...as usual, the J's were awesome. I didn't get to see any legacy bufoonery. I got all my jumpers out except three...apparently the RL (Red Light) came on and the last three dudes stopped (as they should), and then the jump masters said "peace out" and dove out the door...I guess they didn't hear during the jump master brief that we had planned a re-attack for any alibis...either that or they really needed that jump pay this month.

The high speed downwind for us got modified on the fly...lead called a speed change to 150 and configure on downwind and some of the TEC aircraft didn't get the memo, given that all the radios were understandably busy...I'm guessing that made for an interesting moment when the last few aircraft realized the formation was no longer flying 200 knots...

[BQZip01]

<pokes Toro in the left eye>

Glad we got this thread back on track...

[Toro]

<pokes Toro in the left eye>

Glad we got this thread back on track...

Yeah, I give up.

[HU&W]

Shoe clerk buffoonery today. So the base we're at has a room at the gym with a play area for kids and workout stuff for their parents. My wife took our kids to the gym to play while she worked on the equipment. Our youngest slept in her carseat by my wife while the others played in the play area.

Partway through my wife's workout, a female in a services shirt confronted her. She told my wife that kids have to be one year old and walking to be allowed on the premises of the gym. My wife was told to collect the children and leave immediately. When she asked about it, the shoe gave the classic answer "It's in the AFI, do I need to show you?" At this point, my wife walked away and left quietly.

Not sure if we're going to take this anywhere, but it sucks to be denied access to excellent facilities due to some presumed rule (or interpretation) when she was the only one working out in the kids room and there was zero safety threat.

Edited October 27, 2010 by HU&W