SERE/Land survival info

[Champ Kind]

I know a lot of it is probably classified, but I do not know a whole lot about SERE other than what I've seen portrayed in Hollywood.

Is it really as much of a haze as I've heard that it is? Is there a high attrition rate?

Just generally trying to get some information and ask for other resources that any of you may have.

Thanks a lot!

[C17Driver]

There are some "interesting" (for lack of a better word) things that happen at SERE. However, the attrition rate is not really that high. When I went through, no body quit in the group of over 80 and only one individual didn't make it to the end(due to physical problems). It should also be noted that she had already attempted the course on two previous occassions.

The best advice I would give is to go in with an open mind and ready to learn.

[HerkDerka]

SERE is not an attrition-oriented course. Remember, the Air Force spent a cool million to train a new pilot and its a waste of money to lose them at SERE.

Don't go into SERE with a "Make or Break" attitude. It's just training. Just pay attention and learn and you'll do just fine.

Hazing? No. That's what UPT is for. Yes, RT sucks, but it's not a haze. Like I said, it's just training.

Also, don't believe what you see in movies. Demi Moore knows absolutely dick about survival. LOL

HD

[Riddller]

Out of curiosity, I went to SERE for the Navy while I was in the Marine Corps, so IF I get a flying slot, will I have to go to AF SERE? I swore when I finished SERE the first time that I would rather go back through Marine Boot Camp twice than go through another 2 weeks of SERE school (I was in Brunswick, Maine in February). You better believe I got my completion certificate laminated and stored in a safety-deposit box!!!

[C17Driver]

Some of the guys in my SERE classes had to do the AF SERE even though they had completed a different course (Navy).

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

I'm leaving for combat survival in about a week. I was wondering if anyone had any insight on what/ what not to bring? Any advice would be appreciated!

[ 02. May 2006, 05:34: Message edited by: Toro ]

[Guest 130Nav]

Definitely take a camelback if you already have one also lots of good, warm socks and shirts for layering. This time of year it will be freezing cold and you will definitely want to be layered up.

The best thing to do is take everything you can think of...you can always leave it in your billeting room while you are in the field. A lot of people get there and end up spending tons at the bx.

They do have a shoppette attached to billeting so you can get stuff there if you need it.

Also if your instructor lets you take extra food then do...not that they don't give you plenty. But take extra power bars bc you just wont have a lot of time, during the day, to mess with the MREs.

[Guest Js95SL2R]

I went through Combat Survival Training at the USAFA last summer. Its basically SERE, just without the resistence and escape field part (though we got the academics). Here's some things off the top of my head to bring in the field:

- a notebook and pencil. Not just to take notes, but also to write your thoughts, etc down when you're bored in some concealment position and can't talk to anyone. It gets very dreary out there, so you are going to want to keep your mind active.

- moleskin for blisters. I'm sure most of us have boots that fit, but you'll be in and out of water most likely and all that walking doesn't help. The best thing to use is a product called Compeed. You can find it at an local drug store.

- a bible. Even if you aren't religous, chances are this will be the only book you can bring to read. Like the notepad, it will give you something to keep your mind occupied - even if you don't agree with the storyline. I don't consider myself a religous person, but I brought one anyway just so I'd have something to read. This is definetely a personal preference issue though.

- a ton of those elastic BDU blousing straps with the velcro. These things have a ton of uses, and you'll find they come in handy.

That's what I can remember off the top of my head. If I think of more I'll post them later. The main thing with SERE is apply the training you receive, and get friendly with your classmates - they are all you have in the field.

[Baseops.Net]

A couple of things to add:

I concur - a Headlamp light comes in handy - keeps your hands free (LED if possible).

Also, a couple of caribiners (locking d-rings) are excellent to latch on your gear to your pack.

Lastly, I concur - splurge and buy yourself a couple of those $15-a-pair of socks (i.e. SmartWool, Wigwam, etc.) - they make a HUGE difference out in the woods!

[Guest Pilot135]

Sure, I'll add my 2 cents...I recommend the Polypro socks and glove liners - they keep your skin dry under the thick warm layers. Powerbars, if you can, and for the extra moralle boost , save an MRE for the last night in the field BEFORE you get "captured to go to the RT camp. You'll know when that is. Most people eat their MREs the first couple of days and are dying by the end. Ration and when you are one of the few who still has something substantial on the last night when you can rest...you'll be smiling.

[Guest ruckerstud]

Everyone who is aircrew gets SERE at Fairchild, which is 17 days, if you are a helo guy, you get to add on the dunker which is another day, pretty much everyone gets either parachute or non-parachute water survival either at Fairchild or pcola, which is another day I think. This is all in addition to the survival training you get at UPT during academics. And as to which planes have chutes, most or all fighter/bombers have ejection seats. The C-130 has chutes which are hung neatly in the cargo bay. Most other heavies lack chutes. However, unless you are flying a Viper, you can still fly with one engine out, it might suck, but you can do it sts.

[Guest curious21]

What does a person bring with them to Survival School? Just BDUs? Any other equip?

[Guest Milamber]

I wore the issued Aramid socks (the thick, off white ones) with silk liners for winter. I had a full set of silk liners so I wore them all... Of course I owned them prior to, I wouldn't have bought them just for that.

I wouldn't go buy anything- except MAYBE a Camleback- and even then, find the cheapest, no frills model so it will fit under your ALICE pack.

A lot of people say headlamps, but pop on your BDU cap and see if your little issued maglight will fit in there with your enormous mellon- if it does that will work just as well. Having said that, a lamp is only like $5, not exactly breaking the bank.

They will give you knives, matches, rabbits, tent makin stuff, MREs, etc... I wouldn't buy anything crazy, and even though there are lots of things you COULD take, remember you'll be humping it all out and back and REPACKING it every morning. Takes time if you've got a lot of crap.

On flight suits. I wore BDUs in the field and a FS to prison. Many people did just fine with a FS the whole time, but I'm glad I didn't for one reason. Every camp site had a SH*Thole. Not a privy or crapper or anything else, just a hole in the ground full of sh:t (one exception was filled just shy of overflowing with a 50/50 mix of water and sh:t). I liked being able to remove my top and only have to worry about keeping my balance over the hole, not wheather or not I was dragging my sleeves...

Hope this helps.

[Flare]

http://public.fairchild.amc.af.mil/336trg/main/index.htm

Here's the official website for school.....it tells you all you need to bring.

[Gas Man]

I went into an outdoor store and the guy hooked me up with some poly socks to go under my wool socks. They are paper thin and it is like having mole skin over your whole foot. I was the only one in my squad without blisters. Also I bought one of those little LED lights that attach to a key chain or ziper. They work great, unless you lose them like I did on the second night. Jolly Ranchers are good, so are sunflower seeds. Don't bring them though unless your instructor says it's OK. You wouldn't want to have to come back and start all over because of something stupid like bringing food you wern't authorized. The most important thing to bring in my opinion is baby wipes. Let me tell you, you don't want a major case of chaffage walking around all week. Other than that, have fun. I didn't, but you might be able to.

[Ryder1587]

For Survival, does everyone split up and say good luck, don't get caught? Or does everyone travel together most of the time? And everyone does eventually get caught right? I've heard some crazy stories from guys going through it back in like the 70's and 80's, with one including being thrown from a moving truck blindfolded and handtied. I def ain't looking forward to that, if it's still that bad.

[AFCS_Actuator]

Originally posted by Ryder1587:

For Survival, does everyone split up and say good luck, don't get caught? Or does everyone travel together most of the time? And everyone does eventually get caught right? I've heard some crazy stories from guys going through it back in like the 70's and 80's, with one including being thrown from a moving truck blindfolded and handtied. I def ain't looking forward to that, if it's still that bad.

As a SERE instructor put it to me, the AF just spent a buttload of cash putting you through UPT. They're not going to do anything to you that will damage you to the point of not being able to fly.

[Guest kpheinemann]

just got back from AMS. I have a UPT start 1 february 06 at columbus. Was wondering if I can request the survival training (fairchild and pensacola) prior to leaving for that. I'm wondering who to talk to at my ANG base and if it's realistic to do this.

[BONE Co-driver]

I know a couple of guys from Laughlin about 2 years ago that completed SERE before UPT. Actually, I think there may be another guy there now that did that.

It doesn't hurt to ask.

[Champ Kind]

I was on casual for eight months before UPT and tried to see if there was any way I could do that. They told me no, and the first I've ever heard (for the reason flyerpapa stated above) of having accomplishing it before UPT are the people that BONE co-driver just talked about.

But, if you don't ask, the answer is automatically no.... Why not give it a shot.

[Guest copenhagen]

My unit put me through both survival schools before going to UPT. I know of one other student at columbus that had this happen as well. I don't know about any polocies regarding this matter - I would suggest talking to your unit's training manager about it.

FYI - there were folks who got hurt while I was there at Fairchild as well and I can also verify that it is damn cold up there in Feb.

[Flare]

If you are guard, or maybe reserves, then there is a possibility. If you are AD, the answer is NO.

[Guest NCaviator]

If you are Guard you can definitely go to SERE(SV-80) and Water Survival before UPT. I went 3 weeks after finishing AMS and I would suggest it if your unit will send you. A new class starts at Fairchild every Monday and the course is 17 days straight. The POC for this is probably your training manager at your unit,but the person that issues the dates is (or used to be) Sgt. Rico? at the Guard Bureau. One reason that they might not send you to SERE before UPT is if you washout of UPT then they have wasted even more money on you...and it happens more times than you would think.

[Guest Bullmastiff]

Quick question.. I am a former Enlsited ABM on AWACS, so I have already taken survival school. Now, I have taken a spot in the Army Reserves(dont laugh ;)flying AH-64's. They have said I will not have to take the SERE course at IERW school, if I have already completed SERE C What was Fairchild considered? Thanks!!!

[M2]

Instructors assigned to the Survival School teach seven different courses to approximately 6,500 students annually. Five of the seven courses are taught at Fairchild. The other two courses are conducted at Naval Air Station Pensacola, Florida and Eielson Air Force Base, Alaska.

Combat Survival Training (S-V80-A), which all Air Force aircrew members must attend, is conducted by the 22nd Training Squadron. Forty-nine classes are taught per year, with each class lasting 17 days. The majority of the course is taught at Fairchild; however, six days are spent in the mountains of the Colville and Kaniksu National Forests, approximately 70 miles north of Fairchild. Instruction at Fairchild begins with classroom training on the physical and psychological stresses of survival. This is followed by hands-on training in post ejection procedures and parachute landing falls, various life support of equipment procedures, survival medicine, and recovery device training. Students then transition to the mountains where they receive additional training including shelter construction, food procurement and preparation, day and night land navigation techniques, evasion travel and camouflage techniques, ground-to-air signals, and aircraft vectoring procedures. Finally, students are returned to Fairchild and given training in conduct after capture.

The SERE Specialist Course (S-V81-A), conducted by the 66th Training Squadron, is also taught at Fairchild. This is a five-and-one-half-month program designed to teach future survival instructors how to instruct aircrew members to survive in any environment. The course includes instruction in basic survival, medical, navigation skills, overland travel, evasion, arctic survival, teaching techniques, rough land evacuation, coastal survival, tropics/river survival, and desert survival. Basic survival, navigation skills, overland travel, evasion, and teaching techniques are taught in the Colville National Forest; arctic training is conducted on Calispell Mountain near Cusick, Wash; desert training is conducted in an arid sand dune area near George, Wash.; rough land evacuation is conducted near Tum-Tum, Wash.; tropics/rivers survival is taught in the Olympic National Park, Wash.; and coastal survival is conducted on Tillamook Bay off the Oregon coast.

The third course conducted at Fairchild is the non-ejection water survival course (S-V90-A) which trains aircrew members of nonparachute-equipped aircraft. The course lasts two days and includes instruction in signaling rescue aircraft, hazardous aquatic life, food and water procurement, medical aspects of water survival and life raft procedures. Group and personal survival are stressed throughout the course.

The fourth course is the underwater egress course (S-V84-A). The 66th Training Squadron conducts the one day course for U. S. Air Force helicopter and designated Department of Defense aircrew members. The course covers the theories and principles needed to safely egress from a ditched aircraft.

The final course conducted by Fairchild is the SERE Sepcialist, 7-level upgrade course (J3ACP1T071000)). This 19 day course, conducted annually, provides 5-level instructors with advanced survival training in barren arctic, barren desert, jungle, and open-ocean environments. Training is conducted at Eagle Summit, Alaska (arctic); Yuma Proving Grounds, Arizona (desert); Schofield Barracks Military Reservation, Oahu, Hawaii (jungle); and the Gulf of Mexico based out of Pensacola NAS, Florida (open ocean). Instructors spend three to four days in each environment learning and applying skills required for surviving with minimum gear and support.

Arctic Survival Training (S-V87-A) is taught by Detachment 1, 66th Training Squadron at Eielson AFB, Alaska. This is a five-day course conducted from October through March, and it is designed for aircrews assigned to flying duties in the northern regions. Instruction concentrates on food and water procurement, thermal shelter construction, firecraft, and various signaling techniques. This course prepares individuals to cope with the harsh arctic environment and familiarizes the student with cold weather survival equipment and procedures.

A second water survival course, parachuting (S-V86-A), offered by the Survival School is conducted by Detachment 2, 66th Training Squadron at NAS Pensacola, Florida. This course lasts four days and simulates in-flight over water emergency. The course centers its training on aircrews which utilize parachuting as the primary means of escape. Instruction includes initial academic training, parachute equipment procedures, parachute drag training, post egress and recovery training which includes a deep water landing, and a one to two hour raft familiarization exercise.

Cheers! M2