Promotion and PRF Information

[ThreeHoler 814]

It isn’t an ADSC, bro. You can leave any time after you complete other ADSCs or even transfer ADSCs. If you decline...ADSCs don’t matter you’re out 6 months after the board stuff IAW the AFI.


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[jrizzell 150]

It isn’t an ADSC, bro. You can leave any time after you complete other ADSCs or even transfer ADSCs. If you decline...ADSCs don’t matter you’re out 6 months after the board stuff IAW the AFI.


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If 24 years works for you and your life situation, then sign the paperwork. ThreeHoler is correct, it’s not an ADSC, you can leave whenever you want. The purpose of Continuation is it provides you a path to obtain a full military retirement, once you fail to get promoted, that’s all. No one will be forcing you to stay the full 24, but it’s there if you want.

[17D_guy 894]

Yep, not continued but my ADSC was up in Nov '19.  Everyday past that was because I wanted to be there.  Felt like a weight off my shoulders (doubly so since I hit 20yrs in Jun '19).

Come PCS time got Stratcom as  LNO (basically) from 16AF...hard pass.

[bennynova 120]

Absolutely no one should be staying in past 20 years.  (aDSC aside).   
 

we can all make more doing the same thing as a ctr, or go find a new career.    It’s fiscally irresponsible to pas up immediate pension!     You will NEVER make it back up, even by increasing rank and %Pay

[panchbarnes 290]

So whatever happened with that innovative program to promote officers only focused on the flying track and not command track? Has it yielded in any meaningful results?

Edited October 30, 2020 by panchbarnes

[jazzdude 431]

So whatever happened with that innovative program to promote officers only focused on the flying track and not command track? Has it yielded in any meaningful results?

I think they already closed that experiment. Not sure what happened with the handful of people that went down that path

[ThreeHoler 814]

So whatever happened with that innovative program to promote officers only focused on the flying track and not command track? Has it yielded in any meaningful results?

They designed it to fail...so it failed.

[Homestar 881]

2 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

They designed it to fail...so it failed.

 

Also everyone realized they didn’t want to fly like a Lt when they were a 40 y/o passed over Major (deployments, triple turning, etc). 
 

[Bigred 158]

1 hour ago, Homestar said:

Also everyone realized they didn’t want to fly like a Lt when they were a 40 y/o passed over Major (deployments, triple turning, etc). 
 

The irony is I want to fly like that and it’s like pulling teeth to get on the schedule more. 🤷‍♂️

[StoleIt 372]

On 10/30/2020 at 11:12 AM, Homestar said:

Also everyone realized they didn’t want to fly like a Lt when they were a 40 y/o passed over Major (deployments, triple turning, etc). 
 

More so they added non-flying deployments to the list because they are "flying related."

[spike 6]

Any update on O-5 list?  Maybe Senate voice vote today if they are back in session.

[FLEA 692]

Hey just curious, was IDE selection for the FY20 board released yet? I thought it was but noticed in myvector that the board is still showing not public. 

[DuckHunter 13]

Yep, the list is out.  Check the PSDMs.

[MyCS 12]

My Wg/CC who isn't rated is holding my continuation paperwork hostage. I have no QFIs and received continuation from the board. 

The sticking point is the fact my training squadron is double billeting me in a non-flying role. I was going to be here until October 2021 for a 3 year tour if I didn't request to be placed on the VML after 2 years of being here anyway.

Sounds like the wing king  wants me off his books and to move over to a rated desk job or a flying position before signing the paperwork. I recently turned down a T-1 assignment because the plan was to send me to C-12s. Only flown herks and C-12s. Due to COVID-19, AFPC was like all we have are T-1s. I tried to work a PCA out of this place, but my functional was like that's a no go. 

I've read through the AFI and I can't recall where it says the Wg/CC can just not sign your continuation paperwork or negate to give it to you at all. I didn't receive a letter of non-selection for promotion and I didn't receive the continuation paperwork.

Seems like his staff are working an assignment, 365, or a PCA. I could use some old school advice from some of the old schoolers. Thanks.

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by MyCS

[jazzdude 431]

My Wg/CC who isn't rated is holding my continuation paperwork hostage. I have no QFIs and received continuation from the board. 
The sticking point is the fact my training squadron is double billeting me in a non-flying role. I was going to be here until October 2021 for a 3 year tour if I didn't request to be placed on the VML after 2 years of being here anyway.
Sounds like the wing king  wants me off his books and to move over to a rated desk job or a flying position before signing the paperwork. I recently turned down a T-1 assignment because the plan was to send me to C-12s. Only flown herks and C-12s. Due to COVID-19, AFPC was like all we have are T-1s. I tried to work a PCA out of this place, but my functional was like that's a no go. 
I've read through the AFI and I can't recall where it says the Wg/CC can just not sign your continuation paperwork or negate to give it to you at all. I didn't receive a letter of non-selection for promotion and I didn't receive the continuation paperwork.
Seems like his staff are working an assignment, 365, or a PCA. I could use some old school advice from some of the old schoolers. Thanks.
 

Rated or not shouldn't matter. You should've been officially notified of your non selection NLT the public release by your commander, and it's why they get the results ahead of public release.

Just because the board continues you does not mean you have to accept continuation, and that drives a timeline for separation (I think it's 6 months after public release).

Not sure how the 5 year promotion window changes things though, it may push out all those timelines and affect how/when continuation is offered

[MyCS 12]

1 hour ago, jazzdude said:

Rated or not shouldn't matter. You should've been officially notified of your non selection NLT the public release by your commander, and it's why they get the results ahead of public release.

I pointed this out to the wing kings civilian Executive Director in the AFI. He used to be a training squadron commander. It's obvious they don't know the AFI. However, if they wanted to not continue me. They would need to notify me in writing and it must be approved by the MAJCOM/CC and SECAF. I was told this isn't the case. Yet, I still don't have any of the paperwork. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by MyCS

[Motofalcon 50]

1 hour ago, jazzdude said:

Not sure how the 5 year promotion window changes things though, it may push out all those timelines and affect how/when continuation is offered

 

Sorry, can’t help with the non-offering/holding back of continuation, but as far as the 5-year promotion window, I don’t think that will be a factor for a bit. I got an email from the WG/CC that says “the USAF is not implementing the 5-look window for officer promotions for at least the next two years.”

Which I guess means that now you only get three looks for promotion?  Your former in the zone and 1 & 2 above the zone; I’m tracking that the next O-5 board will look at 07, 06, and 05 year groups. 
 

*with the caveat that the board is not supposed to use year group/time in service/time in grade as a discriminator (ie there are no more zones, just three looks) but who knows if the board really follows that. 

[jazzdude 431]

I pointed this out to the wing kings civilian Executive Director in the AFI. He used to be a training squadron commander. It's obvious they don't know the AFI. However, if they wanted to not continue me. They would need to notify me in writing and it must be approved by the MAJCOM/CC and SECAF. I was told this isn't the case. Yet, I still don't have any of the paperwork. 

Next stop is to get on the Wg/CC’s calendar to discuss. Barring that, it's off to the IG.

If your plan is to separate, knock out TAPS ASAP to get your ducks in a row for your exit.

If you plan to stay in, you need to ensure that continuation is accepted by you and filled appropriately so the AF doesn't fix the glitch and stop paying you in six months because you didn't accept continuation.

And remember, declining continuation takes precedence over any ADSC (though you could lose the GI Bill benefit transfer if you didn't complete the associated ADSC). My WAG is your leadership doesn't realize this, and thinks no action needs to be taken on continuation until your ADSC expires.

[MyCS 12]

5 hours ago, jazzdude said:

Next stop is to get on the Wg/CC’s calendar to discuss. Barring that, it's off to the IG.

If your plan is to separate, knock out TAPS ASAP to get your ducks in a row for your exit.

If you plan to stay in, you need to ensure that continuation is accepted by you and filled appropriately so the AF doesn't fix the glitch and stop paying you in six months because you didn't accept continuation.

And remember, declining continuation takes precedence over any ADSC (though you could lose the GI Bill benefit transfer if you didn't complete the associated ADSC). My WAG is your leadership doesn't realize this, and thinks no action needs to be taken on continuation until your ADSC expires.

I set up an appointment on Thursday morning with the wing king.

A retired AF officer approached me in a parking lot when I was wearing my bag a few weeks ago. He knows a certain NAF/CC. I $#@t you guys not. That NAF/CC hit me up via text and then he called me. He told me the NAF/CC for my Wg/CC will be receiving a phone call about my paperwork. Then he chewed me out for not doing PME...LOL

I feel so lucky. Thanks for assisting on this one guys.

What do you think might happen to me because a NAF/CC stepped in?

Me sitting outside the wing kings office and waiting for him to receive the call:

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by MyCS

[ThreeHoler 814]

You have a timeline to keep. They were supposed to give you the continuation paperwork when you got your 2nd non-select counseling MFR. If you don’t sign by (30 days I think) it is automatic non-continuation. I could be wrong I haven’t read that reg in a while.


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[ThreeHoler 814]

Sorry, can’t help with the non-offering/holding back of continuation, but as far as the 5-year promotion window, I don’t think that will be a factor for a bit. I got an email from the WG/CC that says “the USAF is not implementing the 5-look window for officer promotions for at least the next two years.”
Which I guess means that now you only get three looks for promotion?  Your former in the zone and 1 & 2 above the zone; I’m tracking that the next O-5 board will look at 07, 06, and 05 year groups. 
 
*with the caveat that the board is not supposed to use year group/time in service/time in grade as a discriminator (ie there are no more zones, just three looks) but who knows if the board really follows that. 

You continue to meet the board until you are no longer allowed to stay in (24 years as a Maj).


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[MyCS 12]

31 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

You have a timeline to keep. They were supposed to give you the continuation paperwork when you got your 2nd non-select counseling MFR. If you don’t sign by (30 days I think) it is automatic non-continuation. I could be wrong I haven’t read that reg in a while.


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Sir, you were close! It's 60 days so I have until 6 December. Yes, it's automatic non-continution if you don't sign.

The pathetic part is that I had to have my local promotions office send the package to the wing a second time after I learned I was continued from the AFPC Promotions office! 

Edited November 13, 2020 by MyCS

[jazzdude 431]

I set up an appointment on Thursday morning with the wing king.
A retired AF officer approached me in a parking lot when I was wearing my bag a few weeks ago. He knows a certain NAF/CC. I $#@t you guys not. That NAF/CC hit me up via text and then he called me. He told me the NAF/CC for my Wg/CC will be receiving a phone call about my paperwork. Then he chewed me out for not doing PME...LOL
I feel so lucky. Thanks for assisting on this one guys.
What do you think might happen to me because a NAF/CC stepped in?
Me sitting outside the wing kings office and waiting for him to receive the call:
 

Sometimes those informal networks can resolve issues quickly! Pay it forward, if you know someone is having issues they can't resolve and you think you can help or have a connection that can help, offer it up.

The NAF/CC makes sure the Wg/CC is doing their job, so that call will not be a pleasant one as "taking care of airmen" is one of the CSAF's priories and the Wg/CC failed at that on what should've been a routine personnel action his office (and not a subordinate one) was directly reasonable for.

Don't go in with an "I told you so" attitude- they can still make your life difficult in the short term, same with your next assignment. Worth asking where to go career wise from him/her (though obviously they don't have a grasp on the whole continued thing) just to have something to discuss during that meeting.

Consider knocking out that PME-there's a lot of BS in there, but there is also some good stuff in there. It'll improve your chances APZ if that's what you want. Otherwise, it's a pretty clear signal that you don't care about being promoted. Though if you're good with not promoting and don't want to do it, great.

Which dovetails into the advice I got from my GP/CC when I got passed over: you don't have to play the game anymore. In a sense, you have more freedom to pursue what interests you in your career if you stay in. You don't have to check the normal career boxes of you don't want to continue advancing. Take advantage of that, and continue to improve your corner of the AF. As a pilot, you've got a highly marketable/valuable skill that is sought after-there are opportunities outside the AF as well (this was at the leasing edge of the airline hiring wave, though right now airlines probably aren't an option for a couple years at least). The AF wants you to stay, especially since we're sorry on pilots, but you need to do what's right for you and your family.

I ended up getting picked up for O-4 on my 1 APZ (though someone that board got picked up at something like 5 or 6APZ...), mainly because of the support from my Sq/CC pushing the Wg/CC to right what he saw was a mistake by the AF. I was fortunate to also get opportunities that got my career more less back on track (luck and timing). But those opportunities presented themselves because I put myself out there pursuing jobs I thought were interesting/rewarding

Best of luck to you!

[MyCS 12]

2 hours ago, jazzdude said:

Don't go in with an "I told you so" attitude- they can still make your life difficult in the short term, same with your next assignment. Worth asking where to go career wise from him/her (though obviously they don't have a grasp on the whole continued thing) just to have something to discuss during that meeting.

Best of luck to you!

 

I will probably cancel the appointment if the paperwork flows to my inbox before next Tuesday.

I have no intention of staying in an extra 3 years to retire as a Lt Col. Time to get married for the first time, retire, and spend time with my parents. 

Thanks! You gave some great nuggets of advice not just for me, but for everyone.

[Guardian 380]

Don’t cancel. Never close the door on options. And more than likely he/she will use the meeting to discuss it. Give him/her the opportunity to tell you what’s up and be an honest broker.

Chances are they are right now thinking of that meeting as that. And not going to submit till meeting you.