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Promotion and PRF Information

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2 hours ago, jrizzell said:

Unfortunately those of us APZ types are at the mercy of their SRs “personal preference” when it comes to how you PRF is presented. It always bothered me having to complete one, then seeing it leave blank

That's the second SR that's done this, with their policy being "I won't send a filled in PRF for any 2+ APZ."  For those smarter than me, is that a policy thing or an unwritten rule somewhere?  Is it really too much to ask for a board to spend all of three minutes reviewing my package (STS)?  I understand the calculus about odds and all that but it feels like a slap to the face when an organization believes you’re not worth two lines and three minutes, no matter your contribution.

Thanks for letting me vent.  These are crazy times and there are more important things but this time of year usually gets me riled up for a couple of weeks until I accept my standing  in this place again.  Stay safe out there 

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13 hours ago, soupafly06 said:

That's the second SR that's done this, with their policy being "I won't send a filled in PRF for any 2+ APZ."  For those smarter than me, is that a policy thing or an unwritten rule somewhere?  Is it really too much to ask for a board to spend all of three minutes reviewing my package (STS)?  I understand the calculus about odds and all that but it feels like a slap to the face when an organization believes you’re not worth two lines and three minutes, no matter your contribution.

Thanks for letting me vent.  These are crazy times and there are more important things but this time of year usually gets me riled up for a couple of weeks until I accept my standing  in this place again.  Stay safe out there 

I wonder if it is not a holdover from the old PRF; I recall that MAJCOMs allowed SRs to leave BPZ and 2+ APZ blank when PRFs were nine lines. Leaving them blank now does seem to run counter to the idea that the AF has built more "on-ramps" for officers who were late bloomers, made early mistakes, were trapped in assignments due to manning policy, etc. It is not as though writing two lines requires a significant time commitment; the great American novel it is not. Moreover, the two-line PRF intended to force a full records review. 


Ultimately, I never thought the corporate AF would begin to care about individuals, but I did and still do expect leaders to mentor those below them (whether shiny pennies or not). It is a responsibility of command. At a minimum, the SR owes the officer an explanation for the blank PRF; but then again, I have never received direct feedback when receiving my signed PRF. The one time I received feedback, it was from my Wg/CC, not the SR (for O-5 and above). That particular Wg/CC is not the norm, unfortunately. He held one-on-one feedback sessions with each officer whose PRF he signed much as the AFI requires. I do not think I am in the minority in my experience, and I wish there were more officers who took mentoring and feedback seriously.

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20 hours ago, soupafly06 said:

Any other 2+ APZ types here get blank PRFs back from their SRs (despite it being only two lines) or am I just that good?  I get that the odds probably didn’t change significantly for APZ  because we haven’t moved to the five year window yet but just curious if other SRs didn’t think it worth their time to bother with even a two liner for their previously passed over guys as well.  

Dick move.  It costs absolutely zero fucking effort to write two lines (which are already handed to you and scrubbed by about 8 different layers of the Bobs in between!) and give a chance to a record to succeed.  In fact, it takes MORE effort to go in and delete everything after it's gone up.  Such a waste of manpower in the end.  Sorry this is your situation, brother...

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9 hours ago, war007afa said:

Dick move.  It costs absolutely zero ing effort to write two lines (which are already handed to you and scrubbed by about 8 different layers of the Bobs in between!) and give a chance to a record to succeed.  In fact, it takes MORE effort to go in and delete everything after it's gone up.  Such a waste of manpower in the end.  Sorry this is your situation, brother...

This x1000.  When my PRF went up for the O-4 board my SR at the time tracked me down (I had since PCS’d and did a feedback session with me over the phone.  He was an O-7 and even then promotion to O-4 was pretty much a given but he took the time to go over the PRF, explain his rating, and ask about my concerns.  I had no idea that this was going to be the exception and not the norm.  Ever since, for all my O-5 PRFs I got the PRF back from the SR in an envelope with a canned MFR and a “If you have any questions let me know within (usually 48 hours) or else we’re sending it to AFPC.” 

Ultimately it’s on me.  I should have had the courage to call them out on this type of BS but I never did.  Maybe someone can learn from this and understand that you can never assume leadership 2-3 levels up from you knows who you are and has your interests at heart.  Also know if you’re APZ, you’ll probably never break out of the bottom of your org’s strat pile, no matter what mountains you move.

I hate sounding so bitter, on the bright side I’m still getting paid in these crazy times, haven’t caught Kung Flu (yet) and already have my next assignment in hand (1st choice on the ADP and back to flying the line).  One of the benefits of being passed over is the man doesn’t really care where you go so you’re essentially a free agent!  

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https://www.afpc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2137211/air-force-postpones-boards-due-to-covid-19-restrictions/
 

Boards scheduled for 8 June have been postponed, but 4 May board (LAF LtCol) still on schedule.

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I’m surprised the LAF Lt Col board is still a go. Is it mission essential to turn LAF O-4s into O-5s, but not nurses/chaplains/whatever?

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2 hours ago, mcbush said:

I’m surprised the LAF Lt Col board is still a go. Is it mission essential to turn LAF O-4s into O-5s, but not nurses/chaplains/whatever?

You're thinking too far ahead.  It'll be moved, but not until something like the last week of April.

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Fingers crossed...my last acsc course finishes a week before the original board date. If it slips, maybe I can actually get “complete” on my SURF/OPB...

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Seems like something that could be done virtually over the internets.

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6 hours ago, mcbush said:

I’m surprised the LAF Lt Col board is still a go. Is it mission essential to turn LAF O-4s into O-5s, but not nurses/chaplains/whatever?

Yes

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11 hours ago, mcbush said:

I’m surprised the LAF Lt Col board is still a go. Is it mission essential to turn LAF O-4s into O-5s, but not nurses/chaplains/whatever?

O-7 by 24 years bro!  Can't fall behind in the joint rat race!

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, drewpey said:

O-7 by 24 years 

We skipped the O-4 board for an entire year in 2014 or 15. Command selections may have to be rethought, but we've already set the precedent to delay a pole-year milestone.

Also...I think it's now at 28 years

Edited by GKinnear

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On 4/7/2020 at 12:26 AM, drewpey said:

O-7 by 24 years bro!  Can't fall behind in the joint rat race!

Thankfully that’s no longer a thing, now 0-6s have three looks for 0-7 as opposed to that stupid 1 look / pole year concept. 

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Late last year, the AF implemented a program to allow senior Colonels to stay on an extra three years beyond the mandatory retirement time of thirty years TAFCS. The increased promotion opportunity and attempts to retain senior Colonels suggests the AF does not have enough for the out years. 

 

Six years ago, a retired two-star told a group of us he believed the AF would eventually get to a point where if you hung around, you would be promoted. It seems like we’re almost at that point. 

 

Apparently there’s some truth..? I’m a “well north of 2xAPZ” iron Maj that was surprised to see a “Definitely Promote!” At the end of line 2 and the DP box marked. From a 2-star SR to boot. Come onnnnnnnn 90+%! Ha

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Apparently there’s some truth..? I’m a “well north of 2xAPZ” iron Maj that was surprised to see a “Definitely Promote!” At the end of line 2 and the DP box marked. From a 2-star SR to boot. Come onnnnnnnn 90+%! Ha

For all the smoke and mirrors and “changes” to the system, this is really what it always boils down to. If you’re able to get that DP as an APZ major, looking at past statistics, you’ll be extremely competitive. May the odds be ever in your favor!
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On 4/17/2020 at 11:37 PM, VariEze said:

 

Apparently there’s some truth..? I’m a “well north of 2xAPZ” iron Maj that was surprised to see a “Definitely Promote!” At the end of line 2 and the DP box marked. From a 2-star SR to boot. Come onnnnnnnn 90+%! Ha

You will absolutely get picked up.

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Just got my PRF. Anyone know where “Promote now” ranks in the hierarchy of pushes?  Obviously, “If I had one more DP,” or “Definitely Promote” with a P would have been better. On the E side, Promote Now beats Must Promote, is the same true for Os in the eyes of the board?

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Posted (edited)
On 4/22/2020 at 10:52 PM, CaptainMorgan said:

Just got my PRF. Anyone know where “Promote now” ranks in the hierarchy of pushes?  Obviously, “If I had one more DP,” or “Definitely Promote” with a P would have been better. On the E side, Promote Now beats Must Promote, is the same true for Os in the eyes of the board?

From my limited time working these, honestly very average but better than not having it. On the O side you want the definitely promote or the if I had one more line. Yours basically says if your records are good enough, promote him, but he isn’t my top. Not having the promote now however would be a message that they don’t think you are ready. We just switched to a whole new system though so who knows what normal is now.

Edited by MCO
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Just got my PRF. Anyone know where “Promote now” ranks in the hierarchy of pushes?  Obviously, “If I had one more DP,” or “Definitely Promote” with a P would have been better. On the E side, Promote Now beats Must Promote, is the same true for Os in the eyes of the board?


You have a 99% chance of being passed over.
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10 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 


You have a 99% chance of being passed over.

 

This is the BS I hate about the Air Force promotion system, why is there a secret language? For instance, the wording on when you’re ready for Sq/CC on the push line can be really stellar or killer for promotion.  Why not just give people honest feedback instead of mincing words on an OPR?

As a young exec I saw a SQ/CC OPR come through that said “staff blah blah..WG/CV next,” I thought to my self at the time, that’s pretty good! Then someone explained to me that if you don’t have a Wing/CC push as a Sq/CC you’re pretty much garbage ..

I would like to see us move to more of an Army / Marine evaluation system.  I’d rather be told I’m 19/20 FGOs like you would in the Marines and be given honest feedback then the uncertain BS push line language we have now. 

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10 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 


You have a 99% chance of being passed over.

 

I got passed over with "if I had one more DP" on my bottom line.

Not optimistic about my chances with "promote now" and #5/10 eligibles as 1 APZ.  Buy I can stop doing any kind of careerist stuff and focus on QOL.  I'll never have to take about job or volunteer for another project "because it will be good for your OPR".

There's a certain freedom in that.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, dream big said:

This is the BS I hate about the Air Force promotion system, why is there a secret language? For instance, the wording on when you’re ready for Sq/CC on the push line can be really stellar or killer for promotion.  Why not just give people honest feedback instead of mincing words on an OPR?

Because the A1 and AFPC cohort believe they have to keep the blinders on the middle 80% to retain sufficient numbers of eligibles for senior positions.  Everybody knows who #1 is, and most people know who #2 is.  We all also know who the bottom 10% are.  The trick is making #3 thru #75 all believe they’re #3 and that they have a chance. That way, they’re all willing to do the things that are expected of #3 and if #3 thru #25 all punch, we can pretend #26 was #3 all along, and he’ll believe it.  If the middle thinks they’re, out of the running, A1 and AFPC will lose their denominator. 

Edited by HU&W
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Unfortunately meeting your O-5 board with anything other than a DP checked PRF essentially boils down to a coin flip; probably less, but I haven’t looked at AFPC stats recently. It’s a kick to the junk when you thought you “checked” all the boxes, but still end up in the P bucket. Just remember promotions don’t define you, they just open up different career paths. 

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1 hour ago, jrizzell said:

Just remember promotions don’t define you, they just open up different career paths. 

Very true. A lot of guys get so institutionalized into this life of assignments, OPR bullets and promotions, that they become utterly lost when it doesn't pan out.

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