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Promotion and PRF Information

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19 minutes ago, xaarman said:

I did it last year. Declining continuation overrides branch ADSCs. 

 

You'll fill out some paperwork saying you decline, and a DOS is established 6 month later. It's pretty rad.

Branch ADSCs? 

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I declined continuation in 2016.  I separated one month later, so there is some flexibility on DOS.  If you're looking to get out fast, follow up with your MPF to make sure that they are processing you correctly as an involuntary separation.  These go much faster.  Voluntary separations for officers have to go to the SECAF and through associated wickets along the way.  The approval authority for involuntary separations for officers is some random E-5 at AFPC.

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11 hours ago, Klepto said:

New Ned Stark article. Argues against strats and forced distribution.

However, word is AF wants to move to an Army system of top/middle/bottom third check boxes.

https://warontherocks.com/2018/11/and-miles-to-go-before-i-sleep-the-air-forces-stratification-problem

I’ve heard this as well. Also heard 2-line PRFs as early as the March 19 (I think?) O-5 board and AFSC promo boards starting CY20.

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AFSC promo boards starting CY20.


If the promotion rates stay the same, does this really help? Strats might be history, but you’re still left with the same problem of differentiating between the records of the middle ~60%.

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This top/middle/bottom bucketing doesn’t help anything other than reducing the time it takes the OG and Wing to nitpick the numbers. How is it fair to the guys in a unit full of rock stars to get stratted as a bottom third guy? That’s even worse than it is now where they just get no strat so you can’t tell if they’re 25% or 75%....or getting an alternate strat (#1/69 mop holders).


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I would think ascension into the upper ranks (O-5 and higher) should incorporate multiple means of evaluation i.e. performance reports, pedigree (as in tactical proficiency, previous leadership positions held, WIC/Whitehouse Fellow/Olmsted etc.), references from previous commanders, and an interview between you and the board.  The current promotion system is another example of how the USAF hides behind a "paper bureaucracy" without really knowing who they are selecting.  I have seen it time and time again where a "meh" officer is selected over someone genuinely deserving.  I believe by opening up the playing field regarding the person's record, we would be able to de-escalate the significance of stratification whether it is an actual number stratification or top/middle/bottom ranking.    

I do realize that my suggestions would come at an administrative/logistical cost and the only solution I can think of is to not have promo boards by AFSC, but maybe conduct them at an even more specialized level and have them by parent MAJCOM.  The con with this idea is that we might run into a situation where there are less GO's who can cross disciplines. 

  

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I've always thought we should move the Squadron Command billets down to senior O-3s/junior O-4s.  Army CGOs get real leadership opportunities early on (O-3 Company Command ~100 people).  Navy LCDRs can command a ship.  Why do we wait ~15 years before giving an officer Command (yeah I know there are exceptions depending on your AFSC)?

In theory, early Squadron Command:

1. Weeds out the d-bags early on

2. Gives the Senior Leaders better data for selecting HPOs

3. Provides more accurate/honest assessments to the stratification process and O-4/O-5 promotion boards

4. Provides O-4s/O-5s with credible/applicable leadership experience for Joint/Non-Joint staff tours

5. Provides practical/relevant/recent leadership experience for IDE learning

The O-5s can prove their worth on the staff (eliminating the CGO billets) and be pushed for SDE.  Post-SDE compete for Group+ Command.

Not a perfect solution but I think the pros outweigh the cons.  Otherwise, the OPR changes is just a shell game.

Edited by panchbarnes

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9 hours ago, 14N Guy said:

I’ve heard this as well. Also heard 2-line PRFs as early as the March 19 (I think?) O-5 board and AFSC promo boards starting CY20.

So the PRFs we're already starting to submit up the chains will have to be substantially revised before they actually go to the boards?

Seriously, Air Force...your March board date means PRFs are due to wings in early December, which means they're due to groups in November...and you still haven't decided if we're using 2-line PRFs or if I can recycle the PRF from last year with minor tweaks?

Quote

I've always thought we should move the Squadron Command billets down to senior O-3s/junior O-4s.  Army CGOs get real leadership opportunities early on (O-3 Company Command ~100 people).  Navy LCDRs can command a ship.  Why do we wait ~15 years before giving an officer Command (yeah I know there are exceptions depending on your AFSC)?

Most AFSCs don't wait that long.  The LRS, Comm, and CONS SQ/CCs, as well as almost every MXG SQ/CC at my base are all at least one year group behind me ('06 and '07 dudes).  The flying community ends up doing it because even as a pilot, you end up commanding in your MWS - not likely to see a B-1 dude commanding an F-16 squadron.  That narrows the pool of available commands since there are a limited number of squadrons in your home MWS.  Meanwhile, a comm squadron is a comm squadron anywhere in the Air Force, so there's a greater chance to command one as an O-4.

If nothing else, AFSC-specific boards would at least allow flyers to compete with other flyers instead of sitting squadron commanders in the MXG and MSG.

Edited by pawnman

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If PRFs change, they need to change starting at the 0-4 board.  For the CY11 year group and let it permeate that way.  

 

Or at a minimum let let us know before PRFs are written.    

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Yeah great points, I knew SF, MXS, and others had earlier command opportunities.  Our command track is more aligned with the flyers, which means waiting until O-5 to get on that G-series order.  Then you'll have the underrepresented AFSCs like the 6X series, that struggle to find command billets.

Regardless of the AFSC and size of community command billets, I think you should still push down SQ/CCs to the O-3s and the O-4s.  Flyers are probably looking at early O-4s due to the lengthy training timeline and the follow-on ops tours.  Better to get that leadership (management?) experience early rather than later.  You'll definitely know where you stand earlier if you don't get picked up for command.

Thanks for reminding me about the PRF...can we get rid of the justification sheet while we are at it?

Edited by panchbarnes

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As advertised. I am now on terminal leave and also got s job with a major airline. Stress level zero and never been so happy in my life.

Yes, it trumps UPT, PCS, Adv flying training ADSCs. The only thing that you need to check is the GI bill transfer of benefits eligibility. This is all from memory so please check me on this. If you decline continuation but separate at the mandatory 6 month date, you can keep your transfer benefits even if you still owe time on the ADSC. If however you try and move it up you MAY lose the transfer.

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1 hour ago, Duck said:

As advertised. I am now on terminal leave and also got s job with a major airline. Stress level zero and never been so happy in my life.

Yes, it trumps UPT, PCS, Adv flying training ADSCs. The only thing that you need to check is the GI bill transfer of benefits eligibility. This is all from memory so please check me on this. If you decline continuation but separate at the mandatory 6 month date, you can keep your transfer benefits even if you still owe time on the ADSC. If however you try and move it up you MAY lose the transfer.

Bragging 

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Bragging 

Just doing my part to free our fellow posters from the AF Stockholm Syndrome.
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5 hours ago, panchbarnes said:

I've always thought we should move the Squadron Command billets down to senior O-3s/junior O-4s.  Army CGOs get real leadership opportunities early on (O-3 Company Command ~100 people).  Navy LCDRs can command a ship.  Why do we wait ~15 years before giving an officer Command (yeah I know there are exceptions depending on your AFSC)?

In theory, early Squadron Command:

1. Weeds out the d-bags early on

2. Gives the Senior Leaders better data for selecting HPOs

3. Provides more accurate/honest assessments to the stratification process and O-4/O-5 promotion boards

4. Provides O-4s/O-5s with credible/applicable leadership experience for Joint/Non-Joint staff tours

5. Provides practical/relevant/recent leadership experience for IDE learning

The O-5s can prove their worth on the staff (eliminating the CGO billets) and be pushed for SDE.  Post-SDE compete for Group+ Command.

Not a perfect solution but I think the pros outweigh the cons.  Otherwise, the OPR changes is just a shell game.

The Army can do this because an Army O-3 will have like 2 Lts and a hundred enlisted under his command. 

Hard to do that when you have flying squadrons in the Air Force with a hundred officers (including FGOs) and like 2 Airmen. 

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3 hours ago, Duck said:

As advertised. I am now on terminal leave and also got s job with a major airline. Stress level zero and never been so happy in my life.

Yes, it trumps UPT, PCS, Adv flying training ADSCs. The only thing that you need to check is the GI bill transfer of benefits eligibility. This is all from memory so please check me on this. If you decline continuation but separate at the mandatory 6 month date, you can keep your transfer benefits even if you still owe time on the ADSC. If however you try and move it up you MAY lose the transfer.

Thanks for the info and congrats on the new job!  That’s killer

Good point on the GI Bill. Haven’t transferred it yet but I’ll def check into it before I do. 

How far out did you get your application submitted so that you got the job while still on terminal?  What’s a reasonable time to expect from submission to interview/ offer?  Apologies I’m not asking this in the Airline thread but...I’m being lazy and killing two birds 

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41 minutes ago, MooseClub said:

Thanks for the info and congrats on the new job!  That’s killer

Good point on the GI Bill. Haven’t transferred it yet but I’ll def check into it before I do. 

How far out did you get your application submitted so that you got the job while still on terminal?  What’s a reasonable time to expect from submission to interview/ offer?  Apologies I’m not asking this in the Airline thread but...I’m being lazy and killing two birds 

Since I knew I had a 10% chance of being promoted, I had my applications to the big 5 complete well ahead of time, hit publish the night I got my notice of second passover and guessed my date of availability. AFPC established my DOS of 31 Dec 17, got my legacy invite on October 27th, CJO was Dec 7th, and started indoc Jan 23rd.

 

That being said, everyone's timeline is different. But if you haven't started the applications yet, they're a bitch. I submitted for my Drivers License history, FOIA'd my NDR (National Drivers Registry) history, ordered all of my official college transcripts, got friends to write Letters of Recommendations, had to do the consulting/resume/application review, etc. The process took ~3 months. The applications themselves are worse than an SF-86.

 

Edited by xaarman

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49 minutes ago, xaarman said:

Since I knew I had a 10% chance of being promoted, I had my applications to the big 5 complete well ahead of time, and hit publish the night I got my notice of second passover and guessed my date of availability. AFPC established my DOS of 31 Dec 17, got my legacy invite on October 27th, CJO was Dec 7th, and started indoc Jan 23rd.

 

That being said, everyone's timeline is different. But if you haven't started the applications yet, they're a bitch. I had to submit for my Drivers License history, FOIA my NDR (National Drivers Registry), order all of my official college transcripts, get friends to write Letters of Recommendations, do the consulting/resume/application review, etc. The applications are worse than an SF-86.

That’ll be my plan...ready to hit submit soon as I get the word

Good thing I’ll have time to get my Delta TS/SCI investigation, oh I mean application ready!

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7 hours ago, pawnman said:

  Meanwhile, a comm squadron is a comm squadron anywhere in the Air Force, so there's a greater chance to command one as an O-4.

 

I agree, but want to point out this is changing as we move from a support function to mission defense and operations role.

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29 minutes ago, 17D_guy said:

I agree, but want to point out this is changing as we move from a support function to mission defense and operations role.

Do you think that will force your commanders to be chosen later/higher ranking?

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On 11/1/2018 at 6:13 AM, cragspider said:

Yes our numbers are thin. I know about half the guys from our YG that I know are already out. Most are in the Airlines already and ARC.  As for the O-5 board there where a few btz from my peers this past so we shall see. I know if I wasn’t a “late” rated pilot I’d be out in the airlines by now. It’s not that I’m not paitrotic but the miss management is so bad now I’d rather go we’re we are valued more than a number. QOL you name it once you have a family changes a lot of things. The next round of CC’s could be interesting for sure. 

You write like you went to state school on a short bus...and I went to a state school.

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8 hours ago, pawnman said:

Do you think that will force your commanders to be chosen later/higher ranking?

I know an SFS O-5 that's on their 2nd SQ/CC tour (one before IDE/Staff). 

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