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Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

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2 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 


A RAND study the AF commissioned said $72k/yr was required to retain what the AF wants. The AF asked for $60k/yr in 2016. House gave $48k/yr. McCain and cronies cut it to $35k/yr and won’t budge. I was at a briefing by a General from HAF/A3 where he gave all this info.

 

Not to worry.  With the new ADSC rule change, it makes up for it.  #FixedTheGlitch

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Dudes, there is something way better than a bonus that doesn't require you to sign anything AND you get an extra $500 a month. #StopLoss

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3 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 


A RAND study the AF commissioned said $72k/yr was required to retain what the AF wants. The AF asked for $60k/yr in 2016. House gave $48k/yr. McCain and cronies cut it to $35k/yr and won’t budge. I was at a briefing by a General from HAF/A3 where he gave all this info.

 

While Congress certainly shares blame, I call bullshit on this.  If the AF really wants to pay us more, and it’s just mean old Congress stopping them - then why in the name of God does the AF elect to pay LESS flight pay than Congress authorized them to pay?

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On 8/8/2018 at 12:10 AM, Hunter Rose said:

Curious when they will start releasing the AvB take rate percentages since last year they had them up monthly on RAW. I imagine the downward trend will continue.

This makes me think we will actually see a Professional Pay proposal in FY19 since USAF already has a net loss of 149 pilots from FY17 (about the same net loss they had the two years prior).

Clearly the bonus and other retention initiatives are having zero effect, and the downward trend continues.

 

Email sent from COMAFPC to organizations stated current take rate for initial eligible pilots was sub-27%. So there’s that...

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Email sent from COMAFPC to organizations stated current take rate for initial eligible pilots was sub-27%. So there’s that...

And I don’t see the number going up much in the remainder of the FY. With the 5 year bonus in the past, there was less of an incentive to take it early since you were probably staying til 20, so it didn’t matter if your ADSC took you to 17 years or 17 years 3 months. I imagine that the vast majority of takers will take whatever takes them to just under or just over 20, so unless they commissioned in August or September, signing late only extends their time on AD. There are probably a few still on the fence who may make an eleventh hour decision, but I don’t think there will be many.

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To HAF from the peons

38 minutes ago, war007afa said:

Email sent from COMAFPC to organizations stated current take rate for initial eligible pilots was sub-27%. So there’s that...

To HAF from the proletariat

”Where’s the money, Lebowski?”

 

07C8AF42-4D8D-41C0-94CC-B2B468E46E58.gif

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8 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

To HAF from the peons

To HAF from the proletariat

”Where’s the money, Lebowski?”

 

07C8AF42-4D8D-41C0-94CC-B2B468E46E58.gif

Obviously, you are not a golfer.

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On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 10:02 PM, ViperStud said:

Is this all rumor mill or is there a credible source on record?

Given the wild, fear mongering nature of the speculation?

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18 hours ago, war007afa said:

Email sent from COMAFPC to organizations stated current take rate for initial eligible pilots was sub-27%. So there’s that...

Sounds like the approximate percentage of dudes that get picked up for major's school (which includes an ADSC of 3 years post-school).  So... the only dudes that are staying are dudes that are staying anyway.

At least that's what I see in those numbers.

Chuck

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9 hours ago, Chuck17 said:

Sounds like the approximate percentage of dudes that get picked up for major's school (which includes an ADSC of 3 years post-school).  So... the only dudes that are staying are dudes that are staying anyway.

At least that's what I see in those numbers.

Chuck

I'd say most of those guys did the "should I go to school or not" math with the expectation of the bonus... meaning if there weren't a bonus, they wouldn't be staying anyway.

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So I spoke with an AFPC functional today.  Apparently AFPC is pretty stunned with how abysmal take rates were this last FY. He said take rates of 11X initial eligibiles for most communities was in the teens.  Some bases had less than ten percent takers.  The actual number will be higher (just under 30%).  But that number is inflated due to 12x takers and guys who renegotiated their bonus. Reality is much worse than that. 

McCain is gone. Time for Congress to pass a real bonus.

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Some porches have posted take rates on Portal slides...ouch. Haven't seen take rates on RAW all year...hmmm.

Depressingly, NDAA FY19 locked in max AVB of $35K by just stating:overwrite 2018 with 2019 in regards to bonus pays authorization...also ouch.

333(i) of title 37, United States Code, is amended by striking ‘‘December 31, 2018’’ and inserting ‘‘December 31, 2019’’. (d) AUTHORITIES RELATING TO TITLE 37 CONSOLIDATED SPECIALPAY, INCENTIVE PAY, AND BONUS AUTHORITIES.—The following sec-tions of title 37, United States Code, are amended by striking ‘‘December 31, 2018’’ and inserting ‘‘December 31, 2019’

 

But apparently 365s will be 180s now! And flight pay is up!

😐

....and the ticker trends yet again downward (literally there are less of us, past 2k now by my calculations, even Navs are down, but wait ABM & RPA increased!)

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Take rates will always be a lagging indicator of the retention policies.  Probably by about 6 to 8 years. Welsh's retention policies still have more influence that the current administration's does.  Money is just one factor, and not the most important one.  Although if they moved the decimal point, I'd entertain the conversation. 

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Am I reading these graphs correctly? Take rates across the board for all pilots are in the low teens to high single digits? Holy crap.... who will run the squadrons in 5 years? Apparently CSOs (take rate 70%). 

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WTF? I can't see the documents, but teens and single digits? Can someone post the numbers for MAF and CAF? I'll admit I get some pleasure from seeing a bit of a lower take rate as a signal to leadership that the problems are important enough to get people to vote with their feet, but a take rate that low is more than a little scary from a national security perspective.

 

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1 hour ago, FLEA said:

Am I reading these graphs correctly? Take rates across the board for all pilots are in the low teens to high single digits? Holy crap.... who will run the squadrons in 5 years? Apparently CSOs (take rate 70%). 

That take rate is inflated because this year they offered it to almost any 12X beyond their service commitment.  So a ton of guys already at 12-16 years and already planning on a retirement were then able to take the bonus.  I don't think it'll stay that high after the initial wave of "old dudes".  I know just as many 12Bs in my community planning to get out as 11Bs.

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3 hours ago, FLEA said:

 Holy crap.... who will run the squadrons in 5 years? Apparently CSOs (take rate 70%). 

CSOs, late-rated pilots, and a handful of career pilots.

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2 hours ago, flyusaf83 said:

CSOs, late-rated pilots, and a handful of career pilots.

Pretty sure majority of late rate pilots will continue to find other avenues to retirement instead of staying AD.

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5 hours ago, torqued said:

I'll admit I get some pleasure from seeing a bit of a lower take rate as a signal to leadership that the problems are important enough to get people to vote with their feet, but a take rate that low is more than a little scary from a national security perspective.

 

My thoughts exactly. Wow. 

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1 hour ago, IDALPHA said:

Pretty sure majority of late rate pilots will continue to find other avenues to retirement instead of staying AD.

Yup, TONS of opportunities out there if you're willing to travel or leave your airframe.  Our OG seems to send out emails monthly with opportunities.  The really scary ones are the ones asking not just for IPs, but simply Flight leads to help AD squadrons.  The Guard has some pretty awesome hidden gems, one I was willing to give up flying for 2-3 years to do...before I got hired at the airlines.  

Edited by SocialD

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Maybe these abysmal take rates will actually get HAF to take an actual look at compensation, like the rumors of Professional Pay I have heard at MAJCOM.

Two years of saying "it's not about the money" and yet all the Aircrew Retention Crisis Task Force's efforts in quality of life/deployments/additional duties have done absolutely nothing to slow the loss of pilots.  We'll have the same approximately 150 pilot net loss for the year.

Everyone I know who goes to the airlines mentions two things: tons of money and free time.  So to act like money plays no role and completely ignore it has been idiotic by HAF.  

Edited by Hunter Rose
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