Online classes for MBA/other Masters Program

[Kanedaa]

I recently graduated this past May with a degree in Electrical Engineering and I'm awaiting my EAD on 1 Oct. So, I've been sort of bumming it out and relaxing. The 10 hours of sleeping each day, drinking, watching showtime, working out, and gaming is getting pretty old (I know this actually sounds pretty awesome)... and I decided that while my months off have been chill, I might as well make use of the time I have left.

My UPT is set to start sometime in February, so I'll have an additional 4 months of casual down at Laughlin and I've been advised by a few buddies to start taking grad classes before/after UPT... as I will eventually need my masters to make Maj.

1. What should I be doing with my time now before I EAD? I'm sure I'll get the "just keep drinking bro, enjoy the time you have off" answers... but I actually get stressed when I have nothing to do as ridiculous as that sounds. I figure, start studying for my GMAT as an MBA seems like a good option and corporate management has always been something I've wanted to do some day.

2. What other advanced degrees are good options? The only two that really come to mind are getting my MS in some engineering which I'd rather stay away from (my BS was painful enough) and an MBA.

3. Say I strap down and get my GMAT out of the way by 1 Oct, do I then just apply to online-only MBA colleges once I'm AD?

4. Ultimately I'm just bored and feel guilty throwing my time away. Any recommendations and or personal experiences would be awesome. Right now, taking my GMAT > EAD > some classes during casual > UPT > flying/more classes sounds like my best bet?

Cheers guys.

[ThreeHoler]

You do not need an AAD or even a BAC+ to make Maj, however it does not hurt your chances.

Your first focus should always be your primary duty, whatever it is...then any additional duties you're assigned. If you are able to do that and still wish to do more, then by all means start on your AAD.

As the AF doesn't give a shit about what your AAD is, you could get an MA, MBA, or MS...most flyers go the route of ERAU, TUI (which I guess has renamed themselves yet again???), or the newly created AU OLMP. None of these three are really stellar programs...they just let you get the job done.

[guineapigfury]

ThreeHoler's right. But since you don't have a primary duty right now, I'd look into knocking out a class or three. I'm still kicking myself for not grinding out a Master's during my 9 months of casual. Look into whether or not you're eligible for tuition assistance in your current situation.

[Kanedaa]

You do not need an AAD or even a BAC+ to make Maj, however it does not hurt your chances.

Your first focus should always be your primary duty, whatever it is...then any additional duties you're assigned. If you are able to do that and still wish to do more, then by all means start on your AAD.

As the AF doesn't give a shit about what your AAD is, you could get an MA, MBA, or MS...most flyers go the route of ERAU, TUI (which I guess has renamed themselves yet again???), or the newly created AU OLMP. None of these three are really stellar programs...they just let you get the job done.

Thanks for your response but I honestly don't recognize any of your acronyms. Can someone help me out?

Edited July 14, 2011 by Kaneda215

[Learjetter]

AAD=advanced academic degree (masters), BAC+=bachelors plus (indicates 15 or more credit hours towards AAD); ERAU=embry riddle aero univ, TUI=trident univ..

I knocked out a masters in a little over a year, via correspondence from aju.edu, and used my TA=tuition assistance, which paid 100% of the tuition, and I paid for books. If you can get er done now, before UPT, or get a bunch of it done now, it's not a bad idea. Do not recommend doing masters while in UPT, or in primary training for whatever aircraft you get after UPT. So, start it today, with the goal of finishing/getting real close before UPT, then taking 2+ year delay to finish while in UPT/primary, or wait until after primary. Your call. Good luck.

[Smokin]

If you're looking to get an MBA online from a college people will recognize, it will take longer than a year or two, so start TODAY. Taking two or three classes now while you have nothing else to do is a great idea, then you can take one at a time and be done with plenty of time to spare. You won't regret starting now, but if you wait you will kick yourself when you are working 69 hrs per week and have a wife and kids. As for schools, there is another thread talking about it, but Oklahoma State University offers a top tier program online and I think they still drop tuition down to $250/credit hour for military.

[KingGuy]

Having done an undergrad in engineering, I feel your pain on not wanting to continue to a masters. If you decide MBA is the route you want to go, decide if you want one from a real school or an easy online MBA. If you want the more difficult option, I recommend taking the GMAT - as mentioned above, most schools that anybody has heard of require it - and applying for the semester you start active duty. That way, you will be active duty when it comes time to pay for the classes and will be able to use TA.

Most of the schools are very accommodating to military, so just google "distance mba programs" or whatever program you're looking at, and you'll find all kinds of options. I've heard that some schools as heavy as Duke can be done completely online (or with a minimal in house component), but they can get pretty expensive, others drop the cost down to TA.

Beyond that, enjoy your time off, before you move to a town in the middle of nowhere and start pilot training. Travel and visit friends, enjoy free time, and spend money you don't have - you'll save a bunch in UPT.

[Karl Hungus]

Oklahoma State University offers a top tier program

LOL.

[That Guy]

Do it while you have the time. I knocked out half of my master's before starting UPT. You're probably never going to have this much free time again. If nothing else, you're saving yourself time down the road.

[Hammer]

I'll beat the horse...I sat casual for almost a year and did nothing but answer a phone 3 days a week, hang out at TBs and drink beer, play golf and cruise around Lake Amistad. I had a blast. Hindsight being 20/20 I should have finished about 4 or 5 classes. I would be finished by now enjoying the time I have at home with my Wife rather than writing bullshit papers after work and on my Sunday afternoons. Get as much done as you can before UPT starts, but enjoy the lack of responsibility.

[Fud]

TUI=trident univ.

Just looked at their website today, and their accreditation is in question by their governing body. Just an FYI.

[spaw2001]

Check out Kelley School of Business at Indiana (ranked 19 by Business Week and 23 by US News). Also UNC offers an onliner now as well but is over 80K...Kelley costs about 55K not including TA and the mil discount they offer. This is a steal for a top tier MBA.

Man, get a degree for yourself...screw the Air Forces check the box bullshit...the work place is competitive out there and you have no idea at this point if you want to stay in for sure for 20. A non-accredited degree from a for profit such as Touro or AMU will not be recognized in the work place. The key is to ensure your MBA is AACSB accredited and that the online degree is the same diploma AND transcript as in-res programs..good luck!

[Guest DASH]

I'm currently taking classes online with the University of Arkansas MS in Operations Management. It may not be a MBA, but no extra tests are required for admission and you are getting a degree from a "real" university that hopefully won't be losing accreditation any time soon. TA covers everything except $100 plus book costs. Everything is done on Blackboard and most classes have two tests online or a few papers due. They have accelerated courses that are 8 weeks long with 5 terms per year. With only 30 hours required to complete the degree this means you can finish in two years just taking one class at a time. No matter what program you choose, you will be happy that you started taking some classes prior to UPT. Playing golf and working on your beer pong skills can only take up so much of your time during casual.

[Whitman]

Get it done before UPT if you can. I've never regretted getting my MBA on casual and am glad my Dad pushed for me to get back in school so I could stay on his health insurance. Although, I wasn't a fan of having to write a paper on my last night in Vegas, while TDY, but life only gets busier so it was nice to front load the work and finish the month before UPT started. I wouldn't sweat the "real degree" pursuit. There are plenty of opportunities for that later on but the initial masters opens up those doors later on if that's what you want. GL

[Kanedaa]

Check out Kelley School of Business at Indiana (ranked 19 by Business Week and 23 by US News). Also UNC offers an onliner now as well but is over 80K...Kelley costs about 55K not including TA and the mil discount they offer. This is a steal for a top tier MBA.

Man, get a degree for yourself...screw the Air Forces check the box bullshit...the work place is competitive out there and you have no idea at this point if you want to stay in for sure for 20. A non-accredited degree from a for profit such as Touro or AMU will not be recognized in the work place. The key is to ensure your MBA is AACSB accredited and that the online degree is the same diploma AND transcript as in-res programs..good luck!

Firstly thanks to everyone for the advice. After a bunch of research I think that I would really want to tough it out and get the MBA. I was actually checking out Kelley and it's one of my top choices. Has anyone gotten their MBA from this school while on Active Duty? Actually, has anyone else gotten their MBA from a "good" school? I'd love to PM you on some information.

My next big question regards timing - if I take my GMAT sometime in August/September, am I sort of screwed out of taking classes this Fall? From the looks of it, most university's application deadlines are sometime mid July (fml) if I wanted to start sometime in the Winter.

Is getting an MBA from a "good" university going to be a huge pain in the ass as opposed to getting something from ERAU?

Thanks again.

[nsplayr]

A non-accredited degree from a for profit such as Touro or AMU will not be recognized in the work place.

AMU is regionally accredited FWIW. Don't put out info that is false. Yes it is online and yes a lot of it us BS (trust me I know) but being accredited is not AMU's issue.

Is getting an MBA from a "good" university going to be a huge pain in the ass as opposed to getting something from ERAU?

Is Harvard more of a pain in the ass than Sports Management at FSU? Sure, but it can be worth it depending on what you want to do later and how much value your future employers put on a top-tier school. If you can afford a degree from a good school do it I say.

[SurelySerious]

My next big question regards timing - if I take my GMAT sometime in August/September, am I sort of screwed out of taking classes this Fall? From the looks of it, most university's application deadlines are sometime mid July (fml) if I wanted to start sometime in the Winter.

Probably, unless you can work a conditional admission whereby you can take classes, but are not granted full student status until you complete the GMAT with the required score.

[Kanedaa]

Probably, unless you can work a conditional admission whereby you can take classes, but are not granted full student status until you complete the GMAT with the required score.

So... do universities make exceptions for military? In other words, say classes start in September, but application deadline was mid June, do any universities still accept military personnel post-deadline?

[Kanedaa]

Also, is it even really possible to succeed in the flying world and still manage taking one or two online classes from a top tier MBA school? Anyone done this?

[spaw2001]

nsplayr...You are right. After typing up the response, I realized I said non-accredited. AMU is regionally accredited. I am not trying to shit on people that took that route, but I am going to shit on the school. Regional accreditation is a way of getting "accredited" when a school can't qualify for AACSB. It is smoke and mirrors because undergrad schools are often regionally accredited (including the likes of Harvard) but this doesn't fly for MBAs. Unfortunately, AACSB is the sole recognized MBA accreditation source. It depends on your goals. If you plan on checking the box and going to school again later, then fine. But, don't think you can roll up to goldman sachs after the ten year commitment and show them an AMU MBA. But, if you plan an being an airline pilot, or some job that doesn't require a MBA, who cares. We got briefed in SOS that a lot is changing and the Generals are taking a hard look at the way the Air Force views the degree. "checking the box" rules seem to change every several year, so that is why I am a proponent of getting a degree for yourself and not for the Air Force.

Also, I think these for-profit schools have warped many military folks perception of what education actually costs. We talk about how TA will cover most of the costs at certain schools and how they will start you out with a BAC+, but in reality these are main indicators that you are dealing with a for-profit. While I don't agree with education costs, and the education bubble is mostly likely going to burst, top schools cost in the neighborhood of 200K for a 2 year MBA program. This includes tuition, room and board, health insurance, etc...Many of my Army friends that are getting out and going to top schools have to come up with a huge chunk of change (and piece together GI Bill, loans, cash, etc...). These costs don't even consider the two year opportunity cost of not getting a paycheck. This is why I find it surprising when people in the Air Force scoff at 50K for a MBA or even 80K for UNCs new online MBA.

Kaneda215, I just finished my MBA through Kelley and now working on a dual degree with them. I feel strongly about this subject because my decision to go to Kelley was one of the best decisions I have ever made (not to be too melodramatic). The school and instructors were absolutely top notch and you will be surprised how smart your classmates are. You aren't relegated to the low-end instructors. You are taught by the same faculty as the in-res program. For example, Kelley hosts one of the top entrepreneurship programs in the country and my professor was the department head who wrote the text book for the class...pretty cool. My experience there literally changed many of my perspective and views for the better. As for the level of work, I would say it is challenging but not overwhelming by any stretch. The school understands you are a working professional and is very flexible. But, at the same time, don't expect to simply coast. The GMAT is definitely required but they understand that people have been away from school so the score doesn't need to be crazy high. A low 600s should do the trick. One thing is, there are 2, one week in-residencies that are waiverable for military, but I HIGHLY recommend going to them. Going to the Bloomington campus (which is beautiful btw), networking, and getting wined and dined by the B-school is quite an experience.

With regards to flexibility, in order to finish the MBA in 2 years, you will pretty much have to take 2 classes per term. I was able to drop down to one class per term a couple of times and still finish in 2 years. Like I said before, 2 classes is a challenging work load but not overwhelming if you stay ahead of the game. But, taking 2 classes in UPT would be unsustainable. Also, you can put the MBA on hold. You have 5 years to finish it.

Kelley has 2 admissions cycles. One in March and one in Sept. You have to look up the website, but I think the March entrance has a Jan application deadline, and the Sept entrance has an app deadline in the summer some time.

Feel free to PM me with questions. Spaw

Edited July 15, 2011 by spaw2001

[nsplayr]

nsplayr...You are right. After typing up the response, I realized I said non-accredited. AMU is regionally accredited. I am not trying to shit on people that took that route, but I am going to shit on the school. Regional accreditation is a way of getting "accredited" when a school can't qualify for AACSB. It is smoke and mirrors because undergrad schools are often regionally accredited (including the likes of Harvard) but this doesn't fly for MBAs. Unfortunately, AACSB is the sole recognized MBA accreditation source.

You're right as well...I didn't realize you were speaking strictly in terms of the MBA they offer. Since many other AMU programs are in different fields where regional accreditation is the standard, the "legitimacy" of the school it's not a problem. Some of it's professors, their grading system, and the insane level of dumbness of quite a few of your classmates are all bigger problems and make me with I had chosen differently when I started my studies there. Tried to educational delay out of ROTC and pay for a good school 100% on my own dime in exchange for a 2-year delay with no pay or benefits, but of course that was denied (bad luck/timing)...yea, the AF really values a good education...don't ever believe that for a second. Like I said before and others have reinforced, go to the best school you can afford (in both time and money) because I've never met someone who went to a good school and in hindsight regretted "working to hard" or having a degree with "too much credibility."

I didn't know anything about MBA accreditation so thanks for the learningz. From what I briefly read it seems like AACSB is the standard and what all the major school have, but that ACBSP, which accredits AMU's MBA, is a legitimate if second-tier accreditation. Like you said, know your goals and if there is clearly a higher standard out there you're much safer going to a school that lives up to that.

[sky_king]

Just looked at their website today, and their accreditation is in question by their governing body. Just an FYI.

Not surprising.

[Gravedigger]

If you are not in the military, the school you attend means a lot more, in fact it is usually what lands you an interview. If you are in the military that is absolutely not the case. Don't worry about going to a "top-tier" school unless your pride just wont allow you to have a degree from an online school. In the Air Force, honestly nobody gives a shit where your degree is from.

My wife's undergrad degree is in Aerospace Engineering from Georgia Tech, and it took her a long time to understand that the Air Force looks more favorably on a person with an undergrad theater degree and online MBA from TUI than someone with just an undergrad in Aerospace. Fair or not, that is the system in place. Just check the box with the least ass pain possible and move on.

[spaw2001]

So when circumstances change and you decide to get out after 10 years, what happens then? To say, no big deal I'll go get a real masters degree at age 33-35 and go from 80K a year to zero seems a bit of an unrealistic proposal. Why not just knock out a decent one now..there are plenty of good schools out there with online degrees..while not perfect and it would be nice to go to a college country club for a couple of years, unfortunately that is not the cards us aviators were dealt. You're right, the Air Force doesn't care about strength of curriculum but one day, 20 yrs or not, we will be out and a real masters will help. In the business world (unless you are an entrepreneur) people are literally capped out at a certain point without a MBA. The Air Force sends mixed messages about education, and my argument is to ignore it. Some people don't care about getting a good degree and that's fine..But I don't think it is good advice to say "check the box" and move on...that is based on a myopic Air Force world view. There are tons of good schools with online degrees. Yes, it takes some time and money but hey anything good takes sacrifice if it's what you want to do. Here is a list of some

Engineering

Columbia

Stanford

Georgia Tech

Auburn

MBA

Duke

Indiana

UNC

Penn State

Florida State

Dartmouth (healthcare)

Poli Sci

George Washington

Northwestern (public policy)

Johns Hopkins (communications)

NYU (human relations)

Northwestern, Hopkins and NYU are through there advanced studies school which some argue is not the "real" school

Systems Engineering

Cornell

[joe1234]

All I can say to anyone reading this thread, is to be wary of taking advice about the civilian job market from people in the military. It's like asking a guy who's been married for 20+ years how to pick up girls.