SERE/Land survival info

[brabus]

but it seems to me they may be a hindrance during the July/August session I'm planning on going to...or are they...?

I went in the winter and they were so nice to have. I don't know about summer, but my guess is you'll have a good chance of getting rained on, in which case I think the pants would be worth it. They just go right over your flightsuit, so they're not a hindrance at all.

dry, well-fitting socks prevent blisters, so having moleskin or an equivalent kind of sock seem to be a must. Thoughts?

High quality socks are a must for a good outdoor experience, SERE or otherwise. Get Smartwool...they may be $15-20/pair, but they are well worth the money. I've had several pairs of different types for years and they've been awesome through every backpacking, hunting, snowboarding, etc. trip I've used them on.

Sneaking food/having authorized food seems to be a must if you can get away with it, but I have no desire to get kicked out or repeat the experience. Thoughts?

They search all of your shit on morning one. If you get caught, they take away your MRE. You DON'T want that. Suck it up like most people do. You'll be hungry, but you'll survive. Also, most people do sneak food into the RT portion, but they pretty much expect that and ask you to declare it. Sounds like generally they'll let you keep 1/2 or something like that if you fess up. The douche next to me didn't fess up, the guy found it, so as punishment he took all his food and took the beef jerkey he let me keep when I declared it. That fucker costs me 3 beef jerkey sticks!

Any other things?

Have fun. I actually had a great time in the field, but I am an outdoors oriented guy. RT blows, no getting around it. Go downtown every night you're not in the field or at RT...Spokane has decent bars and restaurants. I was ready to get home by the end, but overall I actually had a pretty good time, despite RT and some long boring days of academics.

[KWings06j]

I don't have info on when I'm going yet but I expect it to be during the winter months (sometime between Nov and Feb most likely). Currently I have BDU's and the BDU gortex jacket (courtesy of my casual assignment) and I have flight suit and the summer/winter flight suit jackets. I see a lot of talk here about getting gortex pants. Should I get a BDU style gortex pants to wear over the flight suit knowing that will probably be the only time in my career I'll use em (thanks to going to ABU's, not that i'll ever wear those)? Should I get a set of ABU's (or two) and associated gortex to wear (or just the ABU gortex for over the flight suit)? Should I just go to a hiking/camping type store and get some really good sets of thermals and skip the gortex? Thanks.

[afthunderchief16]

Most of the stuff here seems to refer to wearing goretex pants. God bless my former career field where I was issued a full set, but it seems to me they may be a hindrance during the July/August session I'm planning on going to...or are they...?

Head lamps (recommended by several people who attended SERE previously) also seem to be a useful item.

dry, well-fitting socks prevent blisters, so having moleskin or an equivalent kind of sock seem to be a must. Thoughts?

Sneaking food/having authorized food seems to be a must if you can get away with it, but I have no desire to get kicked out or repeat the experience. Thoughts?

Any other things?

I just got back from the field two days ago, so here is my $.02

Goretex would have been awesome. It rained on us 4/6 days in the field and on travel day I would have killed for it. I brought my goretex BDU jacket but they still required that we brought our shitty issued field jacket. By the time I got everything packed in my ruck, there simply wasn't enough room for the extra jacket. The issued ponchos do their job but you sweat your ass off under them when you are rucking around. The wx was pretty decent but temps drop quickly as soon as the clouds move in. Nights actually got surprisingly cold when it rained but the sleeping bags did their job and you have a goretex bivy (sp?) sack that keeps you plenty dry.

For socks, I brought a few pairs of under Armor socks and a few good Thorlos. I would recommend the Thorlos hands down or smartwool will keep you happy.

The headlamps are definitely worth the $$ as well. You can get them for under $20 for a decent one at the shopette by the rooms that will do the trick.

The food thing I didn't even try to mess with. You actually get more food than you think. We left for the field with a pocket full of gatorade packets and 5 or 6 gatorade protein bars. On top of that, we got at least one MRE every day (even the good Kosher ones) or the bunny stew or bunny/chicken bakes. Sure, you were hungry during the long days but it wasn't a huge deal. Just take a few cans of dip and you will get through just fine.

I don't have info on when I'm going yet but I expect it to be during the winter months (sometime between Nov and Feb most likely). Currently I have BDU's and the BDU gortex jacket (courtesy of my casual assignment) and I have flight suit and the summer/winter flight suit jackets. I see a lot of talk here about getting gortex pants. Should I get a BDU style gortex pants to wear over the flight suit knowing that will probably be the only time in my career I'll use em (thanks to going to ABU's, not that i'll ever wear those)? Should I get a set of ABU's (or two) and associated gortex to wear (or just the ABU gortex for over the flight suit)? Should I just go to a hiking/camping type store and get some really good sets of thermals and skip the gortex? Thanks.

Somebody can correct me if I am wrong but I think that they give you issued cold wx gear for winter months. Either way, if they issue it you have to ruck it. Anything added would just be shitty extra weight to hike with, especially with snow on the ground.

I would imagine that a little investment for some good moisture wicking thermals would be well worth it rather than some crappy wool ones they give you

[nsplayr]

Most of the stuff here seems to refer to wearing goretex pants. God bless my former career field where I was issued a full set, but it seems to me they may be a hindrance during the July/August session I'm planning on going to...or are they...?

How did you manage to delay rather than going straight from nav school? Going in the winter blew...

I'd bring the gortex anyways b/c it keeps you dry and being wet in the field is not fun. Some will argue that it's extra weight b/c you still have to carry the sh*tty field jackets they issue you, but those things were worth their weight in gold in the deep snow when I went.

Head lamps (recommended by several people who attended SERE previously) also seem to be a useful item.

I think they should make this a required item...not sure how you carry an improvised pack and wield a flashlight while hiking through ridiculous terrain...a good, bright headlamp is clutch. Mine actually wasn't bright enough and it was harder to navigate more than 3 feet in front of me, so don't be afraid to get one that's a little heavier but is like a spotlight attached to your head.

dry, well-fitting socks prevent blisters, so having moleskin or an equivalent kind of sock seem to be a must. Thoughts?

Yes...REI brand served me well and were a little cheaper than smartwool. I used some nice silk sock liners that kept my feet drier but in the summer might not be necessary. The problem in the winter is that you have to bundle up so much to keep from freezing solid when you're standing still but you still get hot as balls hiking around so it's a constant battle to control your layers and keep heat in vs. letting it out.

Sneaking food/having authorized food seems to be a must if you can get away with it, but I have no desire to get kicked out or repeat the experience. Thoughts?

Don't sneak food into the field b/c they'll bust your balls for it and take away more food. I was never that hungry but then again I was explosively sick for two days (not very stealthy when you're trying to evade...) so that may have contributed to not wanting to eat much...

Any other things?

For winter I'd say a balaclava b/c it keeps your face warm but again, NA for summer probably. I brought a better knife (benchmade) b/c the ones they issue you aren't the best. I used the benchmade for finer work and used the bolt knife for chopping down trees and other stuff that I wouldn't want to risk damaging my own tool. Hand warmers were nice.

...we got at least one MRE every day (even the good Kosher ones) or the bunny stew or bunny/chicken bakes.

Holy crap...am I reading this right??? I went in the winter and we got one MRE and 1 kosher meal with the snack supplement total, and they told us we only got the kosher meal b/c you need more food to keep your body warm in the winter. One MRE every day would have been gucci...

Somebody can correct me if I am wrong but I think that they give you issued cold wx gear for winter months. Either way, if they issue it you have to ruck it. Anything added would just be shitty extra weight to hike with, especially with snow on the ground.

The things they issued us were a crappy old field jacket and some wool mittens. The field jacket stayed in my ruck the entire time and I wore the gortex...well worth the weight in my opinion since there was about 4-6 feet of snow on the ground at the time. The mittens on the other hand were absolutely awesome! I was very skeptical because they were really scratchy and felt cheap but man were they warm! Being a mitten helped but that wool really did it's job too. I kept those after the fact for skiing.

I would imagine that a little investment for some good moisture wicking thermals would be well worth it rather than some crappy wool ones they give you

I bought some expensive wool ones and a backup pair of the ones they sell at just about every uniform shop for like 6 bucks. The ones from the uniform shop were actually warmer and performed just as well if not better than my $60 set. So that was $12 bucks well spent (they're green, have a hunter on the package, and are at the uniform shop...don't remember exact brand).

Edited July 12, 2009 by nsplayr

[brabus]

Should I just go to a hiking/camping type store and get some really good sets of thermals and skip the gortex? Thanks.

I don't remember if they gave us thermals, but I just wore my Under Armour Cold Gear thermals. I've had those things for years and they are the best. You can pick them up at any sporting goods store. I would still try to pick up a pair of the gortex pants, but they MUST be the no shit BDU/ABU pants. A buddy of mine bought some gortex pants at Sportsman's Warehouse and figured it wouldn't be a big deal since they were an olive color...they made him take them off, so he was left with just his flightsuit, in 6 ft of snow. You'll spend a lot of time hiking through shitloads of snow, laying in snow, etc. It would suck to not have the gortex not so much for warmth, but for the waterproof property.

[JeepGuyC17]

The goretex was awesome to have, especially in the winter months and during evasion days when you'll be lying in the snow for extended periods of time. The headlamp was also extremely useful, I would recommend one with an LED lamp, and a few sets of lithium batteries- they last longer and will stand up to the cold MUCH better than alkaline batteries. Some guys out there with incandescent lamps and alkaline batteries had their lamps die before the end of the first night.

[JarheadBoom]

Head lamps (recommended by several people who attended SERE previously) also seem to be a useful item.

I ended up using my Inova Microlight (the one you see on many a flightsuit zipper) way more than my headlamp. The Microlight's strobe setting came in very handy a couple times.

Be sure to ask the instructors early on about headlamps, Camelbaks, personal knives, etc. for the field. The most recent boom in my SQ to go through SERE was not allowed to use a Camelbak, but was allowed to use a headlamp. The boom before him was the opposite. I was allowed to use both headlamp (with red lens) and Camelbak when I went, but personal knives were a no-go.

The policy re: non-issue gear seems to be pretty flexible dependent on your element's instructors. We actually used other elements' instructors against ours in order to use Camelbaks - our instructors initially said NO, we countered with "Well, SrA Billybadass is letting Element 7 use theirs, and A1C Hikesalot is letting Element 12 use theirs, so why can't we?" Ours relented.

edit: gramer an speelin

Edited July 13, 2009 by JarheadBoom

[BQZip01]

Thanks for all the insight guys. I know some of it is "playing the game", so thanks for all the basic tips.

Does anyone know where I can get a list of the required items (a.k.a. "the packing list") for SERE? Links on the previous pages don't seem to be working.

Would it be a good idea or a bad idea to bring an extra set of Goretex pants that are DCU pattern? I figured someone might be able to use them.

I realize you have to have an ABU/BDU hat for the survival portions, but does the rank have to be pinned on, sewn on, or no rank at all? Is it a problem if it is sewn on?

Brown vs black T-shirts. Do they really care (it is authorized under AFI 36-2903). Do they care if it is Under Armour? Do they care if it is a compression shirt? Am I overanalyzing this? Has anyone tried wearing compression shorts during the survival portion? Good/Bad results?

[ChkHandleDn]

Thanks for all the insight guys. I know some of it is "playing the game", so thanks for all the basic tips.

Does anyone know where I can get a list of the required items (a.k.a. "the packing list") for SERE? Links on the previous pages don't seem to be working.

Would it be a good idea or a bad idea to bring an extra set of Goretex pants that are DCU pattern? I figured someone might be able to use them.

I realize you have to have an ABU/BDU hat for the survival portions, but does the rank have to be pinned on, sewn on, or no rank at all? Is it a problem if it is sewn on?

Brown vs black T-shirts. Do they really care (it is authorized under AFI 36-2903). Do they care if it is Under Armour? Do they care if it is a compression shirt? Am I overanalyzing this? Has anyone tried wearing compression shorts during the survival portion? Good/Bad results?

Packing list can be found under AF PORTAL if you search SV80. Here is also the student handout: SV80 Handout. It hasn't been updated since August, but it should give you a start.

Gortex is Gortex. Bring it and help a bro out. If no one wants them, you can leave them in your room before you leave.

No rank in the field/RTL. They don't allow you to wear metal rank, so don't bother buying it. I was promoted a few days before I left ,so I kept my old rank on my BDUs in the field and new rank on my flight suit during RTL. They don't care. You just have to be in proper uniform during academics.

Doesn't matter on the shirts, just make them comfortable. Our instructor didn't care about Under Armour either. And you are definitely overanalyzing.

[nsplayr]

Uniform standards in the field consist of putting duct tape over your rank and then whatever your particular instructor says. In garrison during academics, no one gives a crap what you look like since everyone there is either a student or hairy-chested mountain man. At different times up there I wore BDU hat with pinned rank, floppy hats with no rank, flight cap, watch cap, balaclava, the crappy old field jacket they issue you, black & brown shirts, etc., hunting gloves and no one gave a crap whatsoever. And that was all on base; no one cared. It was kind of refreshing since it was a semi- break from the uptight world of AETC/Big Blue.

[BQZip01]

For those still following the thread, the latest version of the SV-80A guide is dated 7 Jun 09, so don't rely entirely on the gouge linked above and verify it with the latest information.

[skinny]

Having already completed land and water survival as an E, I'm not gonna have to repeat it once I commission am I? Are there any airframes with Navs that attend "other" survival courses?

[nsplayr]

Having already completed land and water survival as an E, I'm not gonna have to repeat it once I commission am I? Are there any airframes with Navs that attend "other" survival courses?

The only thing I can think of is if you went RC-135s you would do "advanced beatings" which is another week of RT-type academics and practice. I heard it wasn't really that bad and at that point, a few more days doesn't really matter b/c you're numb to the day-to-day schedule of life up there.

[BQZip01]

Having already completed land and water survival as an E, I'm not gonna have to repeat it once I commission am I? Are there any airframes with Navs that attend "other" survival courses?

As long as you completed the AF version, no.

[stract]

water survival is a recurring event. You have to get refresher training on a periodic basis. On top of basic water survival (yes, that's given at the Zoo), if you fly you'll get water survival that applies to your airframe (drag you through the water in a parachute, dunker, etc).

[Guest ^^^]

someone started a thread on eDodo about a rumor that in the near future, CST at USAFA won't get credit for SV-80, and those who complete CST will still have to do everything at Fairchild again, not just Top Off. Also mentioned was that Top Off will end soon, and those who already graduated from the zoo whose date for Top Off isn't soon enough may also have to go through the full thing. Anyone know of any truth to that rumor?

"First of all, thank you for your question during the Q & A with Gen Lorenz last week. I did some digging and here is what I found regarding the current status of survival 'top-off' for USAFA graduates.

Background: From 1995-2004 (USAFA classes of 1998-2007), USAFA Combat Survival Training (CST, course MT-220) gave credit for the survival and evasion portions of AETC course S-V80-A, SERE Training. Accordingly, AETC set up S-V80-A "top-off" training for USAFA graduates requiring Level-C conduct after capture training. USAFA discontinued MT-220 for classes graduating after the class of 2007. Accordingly, AETC needed to determine a point at which it would be prudent to discontinue S-V80-A "top-off" training - and decided to do that with the first class of FY10.

Several factors went into the decision. First, there was and is an ever increasing operational requirement for graduates of Fairchild's full S-V80-A training course. "Top-off" training reduces the full training potential of the program. In addition, most USAFA graduates that qualified for the "top-off" program have been through the training (by holding it for open for two full years after the last MT-220 trained class graduated USAFA). For those few caught in the transition, SERE experts determined that it would be best to provide the full course since they hadn't had SERE training since 2004 and hadn't had a refresher in the intervening five years. Realize that much has changed with the course in the last few years (addition of apprehension avoidance, enhanced escape training, urban evasion training, new radios and new signaling procedures).

FYI - USAFA has begun executing Combat Survival Training (CST) for rising three-degree cadets this summer (class of 2012). CST will give credit for AETC course S-V88-A, Evasion and Conduct after Capture (ECAC). USAFA graduates requiring Level-C SERE training (primarily aircrew and battlefield airmen) will attend S-V80-A.

Again, thank you for raising the issue. Best of luck to you in the future - let me know if you have any further questions."

[BQZip01]

Just got done with the Survival portion (still have RT to finish up before SV-80A is DUN) and here are my observations on supplies. These are all from a summer perspective, so filter this information accordingly:

A camelback is an authorized optional item (All instructors allowed it in our session without question); IMHO, it should be mandatory. This allows you to carry enough water to keep you going a good portion of the day without refills. Not having to hike an additional half mile or so just to get water is worth a little extra weight. Second, if you tie your drinking tube to your survival vest, it is far easier to drink out of. Is this realistic in a survival situation? Not really, but that isn't the reason I was issued 2 canteens and a 3-pint pouch too. In reality, you'd have sealed pouches or other options. If they are going to simulate that, might as well make it more useful, IMNSHO. They have them on sale at Fairchild's little BX if you don't want to pack it or can't find it locally.

Sunglasses: not so useful in the summer months. I found them more of a hindrance than an asset. Bring 'em if you want to, but make 'em a cheap set.

Hat: get the boony hat (a.k.a. jungle hat). I served me quite well and will protect your neck in the sun, whereas the normal BDU hat won't. If you can't get one locally, they have them here in the little BX

Flightsuit vs. BDUs: What are you going to parachute out in/what are you going to be wearing when your plane goes down? Just wear it. Wearing BDUs gives you options you do/don't have in your flightsuit and vice versa. Get used to how you would wear it and use it. The biggest problem I heard was about chaffing. I highly recommend wearing compression shorts underneath your flightsuit; this will prevent chaffing. Under Armour seem to work the best, but they are pricey at $25 a pop; knock-offs go for about $8 at Walmart (shop where you please).

Goretex pants: didn't bring them to the field, but it was extremely dry (to include a fire ban). I saw no need for them. Given what others said, I brought them to be sure. I would advise to bring them to SERE and then see what you need for your training.

Headlamp: I didn't ever use my headlamp and I just had some of those clip lights from Inova that you see in the BX for about 6 bucks. Figuring I might need a backup (what if I drop one? What if one doesn't work? What if...) I bought three. You don't move around much in the darkness, after all this is an AETC course..safety first, so the only time I used it outside of about an hour of night instruction was to take a leak at night. You can buy these at the little BX by the Survival Inn.

Socks & boots: Dry socks are a MUST during the summer (as I would assume during the winter). Foot powder (like Gold Bond) helps as well. I changed my socks every day (on the "travel day" I changed 'em twice) and put powder on each time I put socks on and let the tootsies air out at night. Thorlos seemed to work fine, but make sure you wear a pair of shoes that are something you don't mind getting messed up, but are broken in; bring a second pair, if needed, for academics; again this is an AETC course and we are talking uniform regs that just won't quit... The last day, we got stuck with going over a 200 foot climb over a ridge or going through a swampy area. We chose the significantly lesser of two evils and got VERY muddy. My ruck was literally pouring out water by the end of that day; thank goodness for waterproof bags. Socks always seem to be short in supply, so get 'em before you leave home station.

Shirts: Some of the folks complained about their cotton shirts. I wore a HEATGEAT underarmour compression shirt with a normal HEATGEAT shirt over it. Felt fine the whole time despite temperatures 95+. When we stopped, any small breeze made me feel quite cool. At night, I was even somewhat cold once we were done hiking. I HIGHLY recommend them, but you can't get them here and they are sometimes hard to find in military colors.

Baby wipes: They allow these for hygiene purposes and I used them to wipe off my camouflage facepaint at the end of the day. Again, this is more of a hygiene thing than anything. Sure, you'd leave it on in the field, but then you wouldn't care too much about getting it on your bedding either. They'll also let you use them for going to the bathroom, but I never dropped a deuce while out there, so you'll have to ask someone else about those messy details. You can just get those here.

Camo paint: the tubes go on REALLY well, but smear off easily. The little compacts seemed to work pretty well once you get the initial dry layer off of it. Don't use the stick they issue you; it doesn't work worth a crap.

Interesting things I did: caught a rabbit before the sun went down the first day (our instructor said that no one he's been in charge of managed that in the time he's been here), climbed some freakishly steep hilly terrain while avoiding paths, evading people trying to find you while, at the same time, avoiding a helicopter looking for you and scaling a 300 foot rockface with a 30-lb pack and no ropes (bite me AETC safety regs!), nearly diving into a creek backfirst with a 60-lb pack...getting stuck and covering myself with ferns to avoid getting caught.

HAVE FUN!

[contraildash]

Baby wipes are worth their weight in gold....

My group used our headlamps every night, there was always something going on well past dark. And they, like baby wipes, are worth their weight in gold when it comes to a 3am crap.

[aspec]

For anyone that has been there recently, can you verify this is correct for the required items? It's from the latest S-V80A & B Student Handout (9 Oct 09) I could find.

• ABUs, BDUs or flight suits (2 pair). Wear one, carry one.

• No Orange colored items unless issued

• Combat boots (no zippers or steel toes). Jungle boots are only authorized 1 May-30 Sep. See additional description above in Section #5, General School Information.

• Leather gloves (inserts required 1 Oct - 30 Apr)

• Wool or cushion sole socks (5 pairs)

• ABU/BDU cap. No organizational caps will be worn

• Thermal underwear, 2 sets (1 Oct - 30 Apr). Synthetic fabric is preferred. Get it issued from your home base/losing base.

• Watch or clock

• Blousing straps

• ID card or CAC

• Stocking or watch cap (knit, navy blue or black)

• 2 flashlight batteries, size D

• Prescription eyeglasses with strap

• Female students: hygiene items, moist towelettes, Ziploc bags, and birth control pills

What I gather from this thread, the two recommended optional items to bring are a camelbak and some sort of light that attaches to your dome. The student handout also recommends bringing a bunch of other crap but one item that's interesting is tobacco. Is this just for smokers or will they have other uses, like slangin' them for food?

[nsplayr]

I recommend the brightest damn headlamp you can find...mine was small, light, and dim as sh*t which didn't help when it was dark for 12 hours out of every day in January with 10% moon illum...

Balaclava was the best thing I brought...allows you dial down the temperature by just putting it around your neck but then when you stop moving and it gets cold you can cover your whole face and stay warm off of your breath.

Obviously that advice is more important for the winter vs. summer SERE. Have fun man.

[IHTFP]

Just got back from SERE this week- here's my $0.02-

We had alot of snow in the mountains, definitely take a gortex jacket and gortex pants. They may be expensive but are a lifesaver. The shoppette in the hotel sells the jackets but to get the pants you have to go to the main BX. You can buy just about everything else you need in the shoppette. Definitely invest in some good wool socks because after falling down and rolling around in the snow your feet will get soaked. One guy in our class got frostbite on his toes and had to leave. Only take what you absolutely have to to the field- follow the equipment list they send out because all that stuff will just barely fit in the rucksacks and you have to fit everything in them and hike around with them on during the day. They also gave us an extra pair of heavy rubber "bunny boots" and a pair of snowshoes we either had to wear or carry. Take 2 cans of dip or a pack of cigarettes. Some of the instructors will trade for food, and if nothing else the dudes in your element who dip will need it. During the winter a camelbak is useless because the water will just stay frozen anyways. They give you 2 2-quart canteens and it's hard enough to keep those from being frozen solid throughout the day. Instant hand warmers are a lifesaver. Take your PT scores with you (they waive the requirement for pipeliners and UPT studs) or else you'll have to take the test there. A leatherman might come in handy if you have one, but for the most part the crappy knives they issue to you will work for what you're doing. You won't need the size D batteries- the only flashlight you'll use is the headlamp they issue. Make sure to take some aluminum foil (rolled up, not folded) for cooking. I hear people talking about baby wipes- I took some but they were frozen and useless the entire time. I got by with a half a roll of TP.

The Stars and Stripes shuttle is the only taxi I saw anyone use- the 30 day pass was $107.00 which allowed you to travel anywhere on base and to/from the airport for free and if you had a group of 4 or 5 people you could go downtown or to the Rusty Moose for free. We waited anywhere from 10 minutes to 1 hour for them to come pick us up, but it seemed to be the best option around. The last day there we were done by 2pm even though they make a big deal out of not booking flights before 8pm or whatever..... AETC...

Any questions, lemme know.

[nsplayr]

Baby wipes were the #1 thing I was glad I brought. Went during 8 feet of snow, temps at ~0 degrees, etc., but you'll be glad you had them when you're explosively shitting all over eastern washington 4-5x per day. YMMV on that problem but it's better safe than sorry. Keep em on your body and GTG.

Edited December 21, 2010 by nsplayr

[Dubs]

I didn't crap the entire time we were out in the field. I thought SERE had f*cked up my body, haha... but when we got back to the Inn I made up for the week (sorry again to my roommate) with the added bonus of not having to worry about freezing my nuts off.

The only thing I was REALLY glad I brought was Gortex. Holy crap was that stuff (especially the jacket) a life saver.

[tcf5566]

Also, when I went through they didn't really hold you to the posted limit on dip. I think it depends on who your SERE dude is. I wish I'd have known that, I was out pretty quickly with the rationed amount. I think I have a problem.

[osulax05]

The only reason I would recommend Stars and Stripes is that it is totally reimbursable. The shortest wait I had to get back to base was an hour and a half. Some people had better experiences but most people in my class agreed that the wait times were ridiculous.