Duck Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 It's just that they see you guys trapped in your prison and they want to help you be free brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthDriver Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) Hoss, All good points man and to each their own. Finding and maintaining a job that you thoroughly enjoy is key. Like you said, you are one of the few and for that you are making the right decision for yourself and that is admirable brother. My point on the 30yr career vs 15yr in the airlines is simply that either way, most (whether a 20 year AF Retiree going Airlines or the kid that gets out at his 10 year mark) will end up working until age 60 (on average) in the Airlines. My origional post was towards guys who plan to go Airlines one way or another or have Airlines as their primary fallback post retirement. Not meant towards guys who do not plan on going the Airline route and have a totally different post retirement plan all together. For those right now that are at their 10yr decision point and are planning on the Airline job one way or another (whether post retirement or jumping in as a young guy), it just gets tougher as we age as aviators. Our bodies get older, kids get older, more expenses will pop up, standard of living normally increases and we just can't handle what we could as a young 33-34 year old in the first few years flying the Line in the Airlines. Seniority truley is everything in the Commercial world and having the added piece of mind of arriving in a very fluid market such as the Airlines is a big deal. Airline money is a very nice benifit, but some dudes, if they showed up late after the hiring wave could spend their 10-15 years with an Airline constantly wondering if they are prime to be furlough because they got in late. Being on the tail end of that whip can seriously mess with ones pshchy. Right now and for the next couple years is just the perfect time for a dude that is on the fence and who's plan involves the Airlines one way or another. These opportunities in the Airline world come around seldomly. To catch it where it is right now (if that's your cup of tea) can be invaluable. Sure, if dudes are having an awesome time in the Air Force and you just can't see yourself doing anything else, then I say Right On! Press with the commitment of 10yrs to the Air Force and take the bonus. We need good guys to stick around. But if the Airlines are a plan 10yrs from today after retiremnt it is going to be a whole different animal and dudes just need to realize that when they take that bonus and commit. We are all smart dudes and realize this. It just so happens that these next few years are the prime time for getting the wind at one's back in the Airline game...if the Airlines were something that the individual was counting on from the beginning. If a dude is happy where he is...keep roll'en...and take the $18k per year it would be stupid not to. If not, and a dude is getting beat down, then he can always go Airlines and forgoe the Queep and get paid a lot more for it. I'll leave it at that. That's just my two cents on this whole should I take the money or punch for the Airlines when the going is real good on that side of the fence. All good posts fellas Tough crowd! ;) Edited April 24, 2015 by StealthDriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperMan Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) Lots of talk about money here, and while I recognize its importance, I feel like the drive to bail on the AF is all about how to wind up with $11M in your bank account when you die (which, BTW, when you die, your Uncle Same is going to recollect around 55% of that cash you didn't spend)...OR is all about how much you hate the AF - one feeling likely justifies the other. Not liking the way the AF is run is a separate subject and a valid one to critique, but without any knowledge of the airline industry, I guarantee, you a trading one shitty bureaucracy for another. I'm not sure how much more I would enjoy the $11M vs. $3M the AF will pay me in the long run - maybe 69% vs 68%? I'm sure some people are more creative than me out there and will immediately educate me on what I could use the extra $8M for, but I enjoy dropping bombs and shooting shit - yeah, if you're flying from A to B, then it makes sense to trade one A to B for another for cash, but in my world, flying from A to A with bombs in between is much more valuable from a QOL standpoint than sleeping in a Motel 6 (or Hyatt) 8 days a month - but to each their own. What I really don't get is the "shocked disbelief" that other people display when others choose to get paid the equivalent of 400K to 500K the last 5 years of active duty service...somehow that's "not worth it." That equivalent salary puts any "line" airline pilot's to shame no matter how senior they are. Yeah, being a pilot in this day and age is valuable, and that's what we're seeing in both the AF and in the airline world. Why complain about what decisions other people make? Edited April 24, 2015 by ViperMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vetter Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 What I really don't get is the "shocked disbelief" that other people display when others choose to get paid the equivalent of 400K to 500K the last 5 years of active duty service...somehow that's "not worth it." That equivalent salary puts any "line" airline pilot's to shame no matter how senior they are. I don't understand this. Where are the 400k to 500k numbers coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCubDriver Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 When does the clock start for ACP eligibility? Case being a former NAV turned Pilot. Would it begin with NAV wings or Pilot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqwatch Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 When does the clock start for ACP eligibility? Case being a former NAV turned Pilot. Would it begin with NAV wings or Pilot? Pilot. Check it out on AFPC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac airlifter Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Well said Hoss. I still believe my job is important to our nation and worthy of my best efforts.... And the pay is fine for my family. Why wouldn't I stay? Others have had a different career experience and reached different conclusions. No worries! Thanks for their help and good luck in the future. But airline pay carries no enticement for me over smashing terrorists, so of course I'll take extra $$ to continue doing what I planned to continue doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCubDriver Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) Pilot. Check it out on AFPC. OK, that's a start. I was looking for a more specific reg or anyone that may have experience with this. Edited April 24, 2015 by TheCubDriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 OK, that's a start. I was looking for a more specific reg or anyone that may have experience with this. You can't get any more specific than going on AFPC mypers and checking out the recent psdm on the bonus/ARP. Everything you need to know is right there. In a nutshell, if memory serves, if you have more than 16 years of total military service by the time your original UPT commitment ends then you are not eligible. I don't have the psdm in front of me right now, so double check to make sure I'm not wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingkinetic Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Estate tax is actually 40%, and it would only apply after the 5,340,000 gift exemption. Consider that much of that $11 million could have been protected in trusts for children/grandchildren and that 11 million vs 5 million argument isn't as valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slackline Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Money in the bank when you die is wasted. My kids and grandkids can get a job and contribute to society like the rest of us. They'll be just fine without a huge inheritance... So many people preaching about being rich in retirement. Comfortable suits me just fine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Termy Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Still wrong. It is $5.4M per person. In other words, it you are married your first $10.8M of your estate is passed tax free. You have to be financially stupid to pay ANY estate tax...and most people who can accrue $11+M aren't financially stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperMan Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I don't understand this. Where are the 400k to 500k numbers coming from? Average retirement worth between 2 and 3 mil...call it 2.5 mil. 2.5 mil / 5 years of work = 500K/year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperStud Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Well since almost all airline dudes continue in the Guard or Reserves (for 30K+ per year, plus deferred pension), the actual number you're looking for is the difference between the two pensions. Remember,69% of statistics are made up on the spot - and yours are part of that 69% I ran the numbers last year with several variables (different airlines, airframes) and it is financially beneficial to go to the airlines early rather than later. The difference is not eye-watering though. Discounting cash flows for inflation it ends up being several hundred thousand, not several million. If money is the bottom line, get out. For most of us, there are other variables that make a few hundred K only another thing to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vetter Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) One thing to also remember is that while on mil leave with a seniority # at a Major, they are still putting 15-16%/month into your 401k while doing your Reserve duty. That's money in your name...not some promise from our banana republic government. Whatever your decision, it behooves you to get your seniority number as soon as possible. -Capt Obvious Edited April 24, 2015 by Vetter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) If you want to go to the airlines. Is it worth the risk of hoping to get on with a major which is no guarantee and then hope you can get AD back without pissing off the airline who invested money in you. Do what makes you happy. 30 years at an airline is going to make you unhappy either way. Edited April 25, 2015 by scoobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Why would 30 years at an airline make you miserable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap-10 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 One thing to also remember is that while on mil leave with a seniority # at a Major, they are still putting 15-16%/month into your 401k while doing your Reserve duty. That's money in your name...not some promise from our banana republic government. Whatever your decision, it behooves you to get your seniority number as soon as possible. -Capt Obvious I thought they didn't put the money in until you returned from mil leave...at least that's what I heard with Delta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Noonin Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 They don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vetter Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 They have 90 days after you return after leave to throw it in there. It's still not an insignificant chunk of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Hungus Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 If you want to go to the airlines. Is it worth the risk of hoping to get on with a major which is no guarantee and then hope you can get AD back without pissing off the airline who invested money in you. Do what makes you happy. 30 years at an airline is going to make you unhappy either way. And you know this from your experience as an airline pilot? Or from your experience trolling this site (and also APC under "gilligan13") as a weird mil-aviation fanboy? The only thing missing from your post Scoobs was a reference to how much happier people are over at "Air Warriors". Step up your game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 So if you take the bonus, are you inelgible from taking an AGR job at a later time, but before the expiration of your bonus ADSC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperStud Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) So if you take the bonus, are you inelgible from taking an AGR job at a later time, but before the expiration of your bonus ADSC? Not sure I understand the question - how would you take an AGR gig if you're still committed to AD? Are you asking if it's possible to serve out your remaining ADSC as an AGR? Not sure that is possible because in order to start as an AGR, you must first separate - which you can't do with remaining ADSC. Did I read that wrong? Edited April 25, 2015 by ViperStud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 That's exactly what I was asking--can you serve out your ADSC as an AGR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Noonin Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 That's exactly what I was asking--can you serve out your ADSC as an AGR? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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