I didn’t make Major rank what next

[Smaggy]

Good morning all,

Board results were just announced and I was one of the unfortunate ones that didn’t make it. Had about 24hrs to soak up this information and I think it’s time for me to start thinking about what’s going to happen next in my life. Here’s some info about my career so far.

Commissioned 2015 and went to a non-rated career field.

In 2019 I decided to apply for the Late-to-rate boards and got picked up as an early Captain.

Currently in a flying unit flying the best MAF aircraft out there (IYKYK). A basic AC with about 1000 total time (UPT/Current MWS). I had an assignment to be an instructor for UPT leaving for PIT in a couple of months, but then I got the news. 
Ive already been asking around on how to navigate through this, but being this is a pilot forum I’m thinking of taking my talents to the civilian sector. I heard that if I don’t promote next time around (or decline promotion) I can get out without finishing the rest of my ADSC (2031), is that true? Also do yall believe I will still be sent to PIT knowing that my “next look PRF” will be comprised mainly of PIT? I know I will have to talk with my CoC and probably legal for definite but I wanted to get y’all’s insight. Finally, can I still get hired by a Guard or Reserve unit and not have to finish my ADSC if I turn down promotion? Thanks yall

 

-Rick

 

[StrikeOut312]

11 minutes ago, Smaggy said:

Board results were just announced and I was one of the unfortunate ones that didn’t make it...

My dude, I'm sorry to hear that. Sometimes the AF gets it right; sometimes it gets it wrong. It's that time of year again for good/bad news depending on the dude.

I've linked you the big thread with lots of other advice. Long story short, you can potentially write a letter to the board next year, get passed over again, then punch early. If you're looking to go to the airlines, well, keep an eye on the news. I don't think the training and hiring pauses will last too long, but that's anyone's guess. Keep flying, keep logging PIC, if you can get an instructor spot get one. Staying in the cockpit is 1) fun, and 2) will keep your career going, whether that's AF or flying in general. You gotta keep getting hours.
 

Anecdotally, I've seen passed over guys in AD make rank in the ARC. Not sure if that holds for every case, just seen it happen for a few folks.

 

[gearhog]

Congrats, brother. Seriously. The Air Force itself is struggling to navigate a rapidly changing world and it doesn't appear to be doing a very good job. It thinks it doesn't want you because you haven't performed all the ridiculous requirements to make rank. We have a failing foreign policy, and at some point in the near future, you're going to be caught up in it. If you were to make Maj, you'd be eligible for more non-flying BS with more responsibility and zero ability to affect any change.

Happiness is a trajectory, not a position. Is making Maj really going to put you on an upward vector where you'll continuously find increasing satisfaction with your life? You may think so, because I did, but it's only because you've normalized and become accustomed to military life. You can now identify a point in the future where you will have near unlimited possibilities. You'll be young, have received millions of dollars in training in education, an outstanding resume, and the freedom to choose your own path. No one but you will care if you got passed over.

I left AD AF as a Captain under a VSP program. One of my best decisions. I did go back to the Guard, which I enjoyed for a while, but then felt trapped to stay in because I was close to the retirement bennies. But having the ability to determine your own future outside the AF is a gift with a bow on it. Now you can just fly and give the finger to all the other AF careerist pressures. If you do go to the Guard/Reserve, they'll pick you up once passed over no problem. Twice passed over requires a big waiver (or at least it once did).

 

 

 

[The46IsntThatBad]

Hey man, I dm'd you. As a capt I worked directly for someone who previously sat on an O-4 board, and got some career mentoring on what they look for - the good, the bad, and the ugly. It's much more in depth than this but the big ones are:

Things they like:
+IP/EP in your MWS

+Weapons Officer
+Flight Commander/Shop Chief

Doesn't look good but not a clean kill:
= No jobs outside of the squadron

=Jobs in the same function i.e. you stayed in safety or training for 4 years, etc.

Any of the following will basically put you at the bottom and you better hope someone sucks more than you do:
-Not SOS complete
-Any sort of paperwork. No LORs, UIFs, no PT failures, etc

-No strats, and dogshit push line. 

You could also consider yourself blessed based on your career goals. You got multi million dollar training for free, likely have an impeccable resume, and a guard/reserve unit will pick you up no problem as long as you're a good dude, so hopefully you haven't burned many bridges. There's a dude in my unit that purposely didn't try and make it for this exact reason. His PRF basically said he turns O2 to CO2 and once in awhile drives a jet. Don't let the air force's ridiculous, ever increasing careerist requirements define you. Your worth does not amount to a push line or a SURF. 

[Lord Ratner]

Your Air Force dreams are dead statistically. You have three priorities now:

• Rack up hours for your airline application (fill the app out now and keep it updated every month). Start learning about the airline application process. 
• Make damn sure you don't get promoted on the second look. You are forever a second class officer now. Some escape the gravity of a late promotion, most do not. Going to PIT should be a great way to not get promoted. Failing a PT test will guarantee it 😅
• Prepare yourself mentally, financially, and logistically for a life outside of the AF. Where do you want to live? Do you know how civilian investing works? Are you ready to live lean for a while until your next career starts paying well?

If you don't want to be an airline pilot, then you need to start networking aggressively. Spend the next year finding people who work in the field you're interested in and learn everything you can from them. We have people here who can speak to that world, I only know the airlines. 

As for airline hiring, I think we are possibly in a phase where the people hired today will be furloughed in a year or two. Maybe. Doesn't matter. Being furloughed means no airline apps to maintain and most importantly, no flying currency to worry about while you work outside of the industry. When hiring restarts, you get called back, no questions asked. Your airline will pay for your training and re-currency, which will put you in a spot to change airlines if you desire. This is part of the reason why you always take the first airline job you're offered. 

Good luck, and feel free to ask questions. 

[HeloDude]

9 hours ago, Smaggy said:

Also do yall believe I will still be sent to PIT knowing that my “next look PRF” will be comprised mainly of PIT?

If you have been selected to be a UPT IP for your next assignment, then yes, you will still go to PIT.

As for your recommendations:

1) Do your best in your current assignment and at PIT

2) Talk to your current commander about his/her opinions regarding the board results—be honest (but professional) with your thoughts and feelings on the matter, and ask for advice.

3) I wouldn’t be surprised if you get picked up above the zone, depending on your record (assuming you don’t have a UIF).  So do your best when you get to your UPT base, make your desires known to your next commander.

4) If you get picked up above the zone, continue as you would have, if you get passed over again, decline continuation if you want to get out (I recommend having a solid plan first), or accept continuation and see what life brings you.  The last few years I’ve seen guys get picked up for the next rank after being passed over multiple times…so you never know.

Either way, try to stay positive, seek out some good mentors, work hard, and good things will still happen to you.  Good luck!

[Ebony zer]

I concur with everything Lord Ratner said. Getting promoted in the Guard or Reserve is pretty easy as long as you check the boxes and don't have any derogatory information in your record. Hell, you probably could have paperwork and still get promoted. Know of a guy that just made O-5 with a DUI in 2020.

Fly as much as possible to get to 1500 hours before you have to separate. If you do go to PIT and instruct at UPT, I would look to join the Guard or Reserve unit at that base as that will be your easiest transition when getting out. If after getting hired at an airline you can always try and go back to your previous MWS. 

[08Dawg]

If I can offer you one word… Skillbridge, my dude…there aren’t a shit ton of pilot focused Skillbridge opportunities out there, but there are some. Seems like most are in the 135 world. I did it, and it almost felt like cheating…almost…to be making AD pay for four months while going to a job where I literally just had to fly. 

[Sua Sponte]

1 hour ago, 08Dawg said:

If I can offer you one word… Skillbridge, my dude…there aren’t a shit ton of pilot focused Skillbridge opportunities out there, but there are some. Seems like most are in the 135 world. I did it, and it almost felt like cheating…almost…to be making AD pay for four months while going to a job where I literally just had to fly. 

FlightSafety just got approved for Skillbridge and that includes our sim IPs. 

[Sim]

1 hour ago, 08Dawg said:

AD pay for four months while going to a job where I literally just had to fly. 

Go on.... please. 

[08Dawg]

7 hours ago, Sim said:

Go on.... please. 

You can Skillbridge for up to six months. I chose to do four. On Skillbridge you’re essentially PTDY still making all your AD pay and benefits while working as an unpaid intern at whatever company you’re Skillbridging with. I got my ATP out of it, paid for by the company I was working with, and I’m working full time for them now after leaving AD. 
 

https://skillbridge.osd.mil

[Sim]

1 hour ago, 08Dawg said:

You can Skillbridge for up to six months.

Sorry, should have used more words. What company? 

Answer will not help me since terminal is right around the corner, but others may benefit.  

[Chida]

Assuming you will be twice failed of selection:

1. You can request an earlier DOS than the one they give you via Form 780. I'd recommend no less than 2 mos to give you time to outprocess.

2. If you are interested in ARC service, you must request a waiver in conjunction with getting a unit to hire you. The waiver (at least in the past) has to be signed off by the losing & gaining WG/CCs, then goes to NGB for ANG or AFRC HQ for AFRES. It can take a couple months, so you should lay the groundwork now with a unit and your ANG or Reserve ISR (in-service recruiter). When you obtain your DOS, have the recruiter immediately put you on the scroll to obtain a reserve commission as that process can take a while.

2a. There's a gotcha here. If you have a break in service between Reg and ARC, you will be ineligible for promotion until 365 days has elapsed as a reserve. You should do the "Palace Front" program. The ISR should know all about it, but the bottom line is that until you get a reserve commission via scroll, do not leave RegAF.

3. If you write a letter to the board which causes your 2nd non-selection, you will not get separation pay. If you eventually get a reserve retirement pension or VA disability payment, you would need to pay back separation pay anyway, so this may not be a big deal unless you need the money now.

4. Speaking of VA disability, if there are any issues you don't have adequately documented with the medical folks, now is the time to get it done.

5. Prepare for a civilian job. Charm school, suit, lose weight, resume, applications, logbook, mil to civilian certs, ATP, 1st class med, etc. All this takes loads of time.

Edited April 12 by Chida

[HeloDude]

5 minutes ago, Chida said:

3. If you write a letter to the board which causes your 2nd non-selection, you will not get separation pay. If you eventually get a reserve retirement pension or VA disability payment, you would need to pay back separation pay anyway, so this may not be a big deal unless you need the money now.

My bet is that if he is passed over again, he will be offered continuation as a pilot, which means no separation pay.

[Chida]

True, I didn't think of that. So in that event, I'd recommend probably write the letter to get the 2nd FOS to a 99.9% certainty.

[ViperMan]

I know plenty of guys in the guard who were passed over (not sure about twice, or if there are implications there) and have gone on to become Lt Cols in the guard. It ain't necessarily over, and this could wind up working in your favor. I'm not saying don't prep for a civilian career, but if you want a future in the military, all doors are not necessarily closed to you.

[TreeA10]

Okay, I've been there, done that although it was a while ago in 1994.  Got hosed by what passed for DEI back in the day but that's another story.

So, got hosed as the A-10 Division Chief of Stan/Eval for the Wing and my AF career is pretty much over.  Not much I can do to fix that.  "Should I stay or should I go now..." was an appropriate song lyric and I chose to go.  However, I wasn't prepared to go with no airline apps but airlines weren't hiring, no Guard/Reserve contacts, nothing.  So, I had to get those done before I cut the income lifeline and I ended up sticking around for about a year and a half before I separated from Active Duty and left with a $52K separation bonus.

Got a GS-13 job as an IP at Barksdale but I was looking at the job as a place holder until I could get hired at an airline.  I did get promoted to Major.  After 2 years, I got hired by American so I switched to the traditional Reservist role.  Somewhere in there I hung up the G-suit and got a staff job at 10AF.  Got promoted to Lt. Col.  I retired with 28 years total service although I wanted to retire earlier but 9/11, a faux bankruptcy, age 65 retirement, and a real bankruptcy made me not want to give up that lifeline until I had to.  I'm currently paying back the $52K.

As much as getting passed over was a huge insult, I think I'm better off for it.  I wasn't worried about the next promotion, I wasn't worried about the next school, and I wasn't worried about the next job.  I flew T-38s and A-10s for 21 years.  I got into a more lucrative career and approaching my airline retirement, I have financial stability I'd never thought I'd see.  That $52K that I'm paying back was basically a 30 year interest free loan for a house now approaching $1M in value.  The military retirement also includes medical which helps.

So, you have skills that are marketable and there are companies out there that value them.  Even after getting hosed for promotion, I did do Air War College, I did an Electronic Warfare School and a few other odds and ends.  Making yourself more valuable is always a good idea and don't burn bridges that you might need to cross back over.  Your life isn't over but it is going down a different path than planned.  Best of luck to you!

 

[elliotpiano]

If you were to decline continuation, would it put you at risk of losing dependent transferability of your GI bill? Since that ADSC tends to end around the 10 years total mark. Or would you make up the money going to the airlines early?

Edited April 18 by elliotpiano

[illusive]

On 4/12/2024 at 12:40 PM, Chida said:

Assuming you will be twice failed of selection:

1. You can request an earlier DOS than the one they give you via Form 780. I'd recommend no less than 2 mos to give you time to outprocess.

2. If you are interested in ARC service, you must request a waiver in conjunction with getting a unit to hire you. The waiver (at least in the past) has to be signed off by the losing & gaining WG/CCs, then goes to NGB for ANG or AFRC HQ for AFRES. It can take a couple months, so you should lay the groundwork now with a unit and your ANG or Reserve ISR (in-service recruiter). When you obtain your DOS, have the recruiter immediately put you on the scroll to obtain a reserve commission as that process can take a while.

2a. There's a gotcha here. If you have a break in service between Reg and ARC, you will be ineligible for promotion until 365 days has elapsed as a reserve. You should do the "Palace Front" program. The ISR should know all about it, but the bottom line is that until you get a reserve commission via scroll, do not leave RegAF.

3. If you write a letter to the board which causes your 2nd non-selection, you will not get separation pay. If you eventually get a reserve retirement pension or VA disability payment, you would need to pay back separation pay anyway, so this may not be a big deal unless you need the money now.

4. Speaking of VA disability, if there are any issues you don't have adequately documented with the medical folks, now is the time to get it done.

5. Prepare for a civilian job. Charm school, suit, lose weight, resume, applications, logbook, mil to civilian certs, ATP, 1st class med, etc. All this takes loads of time.

Have you ever heard of a WG/CC not signing a waiver?  Should you request to be scrolled as a captain after being passed over the first time?

[Swizzle]

1 hour ago, illusive said:

Have you ever heard of a WG/CC not signing a waiver?  Should you request to be scrolled as a captain after being passed over the first time?

Scroll early and often

[illusive]

7 minutes ago, Swizzle said:

Scroll early and often

So I can scroll right now if I needed to then

[Swizzle]

5 minutes ago, illusive said:

So I can scroll right now if I needed to then

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157283917915330

[Chida]

I had to “convince” my Wing commander to sign the waiver using my network. I didn’t know him, he didn’t know me so others (sq/cc, chief pilot, his execs) had to vouch for me. I haven’t heard one way or the other about others getting denied. The point of the waiver is to screen those that really shouldn’t serve anymore due to whatever (hard to work with, lazy, poor piloting skills, etc). The scroll and waiver are 2 independent processes. 

[Shadow2]

@Smaggy I too am a 2015 Late to Rate guy who got passed over (no negative files either). I got picked up for CSO in Oct 2019 as a fresh Capt and took 3 years to compete UCT and IQT/MQT for my mds. I showed up to my first ops squadron in March 23 just a few months before the PRF was due. 
 

Honestly, it was a gut punch but sort of a blessing in disguise because now my family has an opportunity to choose our path forward. Im looking at Guard/Reserve units for CSOs and possibly trying to get picked up for UPT. Unfortunately, airlines don’t need CSOs 😂