gearhog Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Prozac said: My response was less directed at you personally and more at what seems to be a prevalent attitude on the right. I didn't intend to attribute those positions to you personally, but I realize my post could be construed as such. To be perfectly honest though, I meant it to be somewhat inflammatory. I think 600+K deaths makes masks and vaccinations a pretty small sacrifice for most of us. I think many of you are drawing your "line in the sand" in a completely ridiculous place. For me, that line is somewhere past mask mandates, but well before Australian style indefinite lockdown. Brother, that's fair. I obviously don't agree and wish your line was closer to mine. That's not going to happen but I don't think it needs to today. I'm glad that you have a line in the sand, but yours is going to be surpassed as well as long as you don't move it. When it happens, you're also going to have to make a decision about whether to speak out against it. Tyranny and authoritarianism is by far the default and most common form of governance. It doesn't stop until a level of resistance is met that (hopefully) places you and I on the same side. I, of couse, want you to think the same as me. "This is too far". I'm confident I won't have to wait long for that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMFA187 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 4 hours ago, Scooter14 said: It’s an unknown amount sure, but that number seems significant. My RN wife sent me this from a hospital in Eastern Maine…I wish more hospitals provided this data. I also wish they included “previously infected” with the hospitalization data, but for now this is what they have. Also…looks like there’s a lot of unvaccinated “young and healthy” people on ventilators in Idaho unfortunately…and triage decisions may be close at hand sadly. https://apnews.com/article/business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-idaho-09941b507483a5c7b0183dcbf03a8254 Would be nice if they posted ages and comorbidities under each of those persons depicted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glockenspiel Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, hockeydork said: Looks like you figured it out. Most people don't ever need their seat belt or a helmet....until their brains are on the highway. Most people wear seat belts and helmets because the large consensus is that the trade off/inconvenience is worth the gain if something goes wrong, knowing full well it likely won't. It isn't my job to feel bad if someone chooses to disregard that. Maybe most people don't need the shot....until their the one getting packed into a box because their lungs imploded. Not my job to feel sorry for the guy with his brains on the highway...or the Idaho Joe in the ICU who coughs himself to death. Seat belt ≠ covid vaccine. See openvaers. this is a thread about covid not seat belts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter14 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Would be nice if they posted ages and comorbidities under each of those persons depicted. I agree 100%. The more data we have the better informed our decision making process.And, just to clarify I am anti-mandate, pro vaccine and “pro choice” when it comes to getting the shot. I just am seeing a lot of data that would, IMHO, point to the vaccine being a better idea for folks our age than to roll the bones for natural immunity and risk hospitalization especially when the hospitals are starting to fill up and in places like Idaho they are getting close to having to triage. That sucks.You want it, go get it. You don’t want to take it, don’t take it. There’s pros and cons to both decisions. I do wonder if the vaccine cocktails we’ve been given over the years have had some sort of byproduct positive effect in preventing/lessening the effects of COVID. Somebody posted about that earlier, maybe torqued or Brabus. I would love to see more info on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter14 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Seat belt ≠ covid vaccine. See openvaers. this is a thread about covid not seat belts. There’s no parallels at all between seatbelt laws and vaccine mandates. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewGazmo Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 I do wonder if the vaccine cocktails we’ve been given over the years have had some sort of byproduct positive effect in preventing/lessening the effects of COVID. Somebody posted about that earlier, maybe torqued or Brabus. I would love to see more info on that. I think that was me. Google MMR2 vaccine and COVID. Interesting findings, but a lot evidence points to favorable protection due to cross-immunities from strong T-cell production and the fact that measles and mumps viruses share about 30% homology with SARS-COV-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LumberjackAxe Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 I don’t know who I’m supposed to quote, but if I bring COVID to my house (where I’m not wearing a mask or distancing), I’m going to cough and sneeze and spread the virus a lot more if I am unvaccinated versus being vaccinated. That right there is enough to convince me to get the vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewGazmo Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 I don’t know who I’m supposed to quote, but if I bring COVID to my house (where I’m not wearing a mask or distancing), I’m going to cough and sneeze and spread the virus a lot more if I am unvaccinated versus being vaccinated. That right there is enough to convince me to get the vaccine. I guess some of us owe a little bit to our caveman predecessors.Here's another dude I follow on YT. Things always seem a little bit easier to listen to when someone has a British accent: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 5 hours ago, Guardian said: What I have read says the vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting infected. That it just lessens the severity of the symptoms. Really? Where are those studies? Because the ones I've seen show your chances of getting Covid after the vaccine go down between 60-80%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Drinking on day off. So I’ll look for more data later. But here’s a quick anecdotal non referenced or filled with studies talk by a doc. So take it for what it’s worth. https://rumble.com/vkxexq-there-will-be-no-song-tonight....html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Powers Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 2 hours ago, pawnman said: Really? Where are those studies? Because the ones I've seen show your chances of getting Covid after the vaccine go down between 60-80%. So, where are the studies? The problem with all these "studies" is there are too many unknowns outside the control of the study and it's very difficult to come to a logical conclusion based off the data presented. Last time the country was this divided over something we ended up with this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Kenny Powers said: So, where are the studies? The problem with all these "studies" is there are too many unknowns outside the control of the study and it's very difficult to come to a logical conclusion based off the data presented. Last time the country was this divided over something we ended up with this... https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0607-mrna-reduce-risks.html https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm https://www.healthline.com/health-news/getting-a-pfizer-or-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-can-drop-your-risk-for-infection-by-91 https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/english-study-finds-50-60-reduced-risk-covid-double-vaccinated-2021-08-03/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Powers Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 So, my point above isn't to be political but to prove how divided our country is over this. It's odd to me that half the people in this country are for the vaccine and half are against it. That really speaks volumes regarding the trust our citizens have in our government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Powers Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, pawnman said: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0607-mrna-reduce-risks.html https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm https://www.healthline.com/health-news/getting-a-pfizer-or-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-can-drop-your-risk-for-infection-by-91 https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/english-study-finds-50-60-reduced-risk-covid-double-vaccinated-2021-08-03/ So I'm enjoying a few cold ones on this holiday weekend but it appears all if those links reference one study that is outdated. Then your last reference, which is the most recent, shows that we've gone from a 91% chance of not getting reinfected to a 50-60% chance. Not exactly confidence building. Again, I'm not against vaccines and I don't judge the personal decision to get it or not. Just trying to find some truth in all this crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Powers Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 Just a few snips from those links. Having milder symptoms does not equal not getting infected. The second one adds one set of data in Kentucky to the study but still states that there isn't enough data to understand the effectiveness of the vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Powers Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 To be fair, I'm not spending anytime producing any studies that support my position. Bad on me. But I think, from what I've been tracking, all the studies and data are lagging reality and it appears that we really don't know wtf is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said: Just a few snips from those links. Having milder symptoms does not equal not getting infected. The second one adds one set of data in Kentucky to the study but still states that there isn't enough data to understand the effectiveness of the vaccine. "Reduces risk of infection 91%"...not risk of symptoms, infection. The Kentucky study shows that "natural immunity" isn't as good as vaccination. The UK study shows vaccines reduce the risk of asymptomatic infection by 50-60%...asymptomatic infection, not "reduces severity". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 COVID is over fuck can we move on with our lives 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUSEPLUG Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, BashiChuni said: COVID is over fuck can we move on with our lives I’ll try that line next week when they boot me out of the Guard at 17 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, BashiChuni said: COVID is over fuck can we move on with our lives Great news for the ~13k hospitalized for Covid last week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, pawnman said: Great news for the ~13k hospitalized for Covid last week. In a country of 300+ million and a 99.7% survival rate Edited September 4, 2021 by BashiChuni 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewGazmo Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 So, my point above isn't to be political but to prove how divided our country is over this. It's odd to me that half the people in this country are for the vaccine and half are against it. That really speaks volumes regarding the trust our citizens have in our government.Not sure it is so evenly divided anymore. We are up to about 62% vaccinated now and that is people older than 11 years old because children younger than that can't get it yet. Considering children 11 and younger totaled almost 50,000,000 in 2019 or roughly 15% of the total population of the US, the best we can possibly do right now is 85%. I am sure that most parents who are vaccinated right now would be all for getting their children vaccinated as well. My daughter is 13 and vaccinated, but my sons are too young right now so they are not. The unvaccinated are in the minority these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Powers Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, TheNewGazmo said: Not sure it is so evenly divided anymore. We are up to about 62% vaccinated now and that is people older than 11 years old because children younger than that can't get it yet. Considering children 11 and younger totaled almost 50,000,000 in 2019 or roughly 15% of the total population of the US, the best we can possibly do right now is 85%. I am sure that most parents who are vaccinated right now would be all for getting their children vaccinated as well. My daughter is 13 and vaccinated, but my sons are too young right now so they are not. The unvaccinated are in the minority these days. If this is true (you might be right, I'm not tracking this daily), then why does anyone care that some people are unvaccinated? @pawnmanstates that the vaccines are so good and you state that the unvaccinated are the minority, so why do we still have a problem? Again, nothing personal, just searching for the truth data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 28 minutes ago, BashiChuni said: In a country of 300+ million and a 99.7% survival rate What's the survival rate of the vaccines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Powers Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, pawnman said: What's the survival rate of the vaccines? So, even if it's 100%, is your position that we should mandate vaccines on everyone for a 0.30% increase in survival rate? Edited September 4, 2021 by Kenny Powers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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