TreeA10 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I worked for a little while tasking units for Operation Noble Eagle, there were, and still are, scenarios that a VID at night or extended range would have been a nice capability to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2010/11/5009090#.UJWXZbtfGmo.email CAS is what I know...caveat. Strafe from a C model = ridiculousness. "But single-seat fighters like the F-16 can often be a detriment in support. Unable to relay any information to the ground commander, they will often loiter, awaiting a grid that the ground commander cannot confirm. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremiahWeed Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Do you guys have some sort of A/G gun sight/cross or do you use your A/A (RATR?)? Unless something has changed in the last few years, all we have is a depressible "iron" sight. No HUD symbology for A/G gun. Hacker, Does the E-model have the same 2-degree up-cant on the gun as the C-model? If so, doesn't that make strafe quite a bit harder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toro Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Unless something has changed in the last few years, all we have is a depressible "iron" sight. No HUD symbology for A/G gun. Hacker, Does the E-model have the same 2-degree up-cant on the gun as the C-model? If so, doesn't that make strafe quite a bit harder? Yes and yes. The symbology is the same RATR and gun cross, but a slightly different pipper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAMurai Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) So we're going to start doing AI with 20 mm strafe? Someone please enlighten us "retards"... in what scenario, other than CAS, would necessitate an Eagle shooting bullets at the ground? Granted, this question doesn't really contribute to the whole "SNIPER on F-15C" convo, still..... Well, I'm glad you're here. Make sure you call ACC and tell them they can change the Eagle RAP tasking message. Think of the OPR bullet potential! Did I say Eagles would be doing AI w/20mm? Nope. (BTW, F-15Cs doing AI? I never called you a retard, but...uh...if the shoe fits...right?) Do you think anyone in the history of fighter aviation ever stepped to the jet with their portion of the ATO saying "mission XYZ"...only to have that changed pre/post taxi/takeoff? Skillsets are just things you keep in your bag of kickass tricks, and your supposed "mission" that day does not limit you one corner of the bag. Or maybe it does in your case...I dunno. Get ahold of any F-prefix airplane's 3-1 and familiarize yourself with how the gun is employed in ONE-type scenarios. http://www.armedforc...WXZbtfGmo.email CAS is what I know...caveat. Strafe from a C model = ridiculousness. "But single-seat fighters like the F-16 can often be a detriment in support. Unable to relay any information to the ground commander, they will often loiter, awaiting a grid that the ground commander cannot confirm. " Good point. I'll hang up my g-suit tomorrow morning, because we've resigned ourselves to the fact that COIN is how we'll fight every. single. future. war. Edited November 4, 2012 by RAMurai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2010/11/5009090#.UJWXZbtfGmo.email "But single-seat fighters like the F-16 can often be a detriment in support. Unable to relay any information to the ground commander, they will often loiter, awaiting a grid that the ground commander cannot confirm. " Huh? It's no A-10 for sure, but huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Super. Another thread that started out with what what should be considered great news has executed the standard degrade to an emotional pissing contest about CAS, COIN and gun employment. I really like the new technique of adding an article from the AFJ (scoff) about CAS aircraft requirements written by an Army Guardsman and a Navy Reserve JAG. That article is so chock full of stupidity I think I had a small stroke after reading it. Although, to be fair, the stroke might've been going to happen anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 http://www.armedforc...WXZbtfGmo.email CAS is what I know...caveat. Strafe from a C model = ridiculousness. "But single-seat fighters like the F-16 can often be a detriment in support. Unable to relay any information to the ground commander, they will often loiter, awaiting a grid that the ground commander cannot confirm. " Yeah, it's a real shame we don't put radios in the F-16 so they can talk to the JTAC or the ground commander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Hey Pawnman, the article called out the B-1 as the best currently available CAS platform so you should be rubbing everyone's noses in that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Hey Pawnman, the article called out the B-1 as the best currently available CAS platform so you should be rubbing everyone's noses in that! Hell, I thought that was common knowledge. I've got nothing but respect for the single-seat dudes...I don't know how you guys run all the radios, avionics, fly the plane, and employ weapons at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Noonin Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I've got nothing but respect for the single-seat dudes...I don't know how you guys run all the radios, avionics, fly the plane, and employ weapons at the same time. HOTAS? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Yeah, it's not as hard as it looks. Don't tell anyone I said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Noonin Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 So we're going to start doing AI with 20 mm strafe? Someone please enlighten us "retards"... in what scenario, other than CAS, would necessitate an Eagle shooting bullets at the ground? Granted, this question doesn't really contribute to the whole "SNIPER on F-15C" convo, still..... I've heard a lot of generals talk about the importance of advanced degrees and how they contribute to creating better "thinkers". I always scoffed at that theory, especially given the quality of education we promote via the unthinking (ironic?) nature of the AF's education policy (i.e. treated as a square, subject matter is irrelevant and tuition assistance only pays enough for worthless degrees). But then I come on here and see posts like this and many of the previous ones where dudes simply cannot use their brains to think about problems differently at all I, for one, am quite glad to see the AF finally thinking a bit outside the container. It's been a long time since we did that on a proactive basis, rather than a reactive basis. Shit, maybe even a diploma mill degree would help some of you develop thinking skills after all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Super. Another thread that started out with what what should be considered great news has executed the standard degrade to an emotional pissing contest about CAS, COIN and gun employment. I really like the new technique of adding an article from the AFJ (scoff) about CAS aircraft requirements written by an Army Guardsman and a Navy Reserve JAG. That article is so chock full of stupidity I think I had a small stroke after reading it. Although, to be fair, the stroke might've been going to happen anyway.... Easy there grandpa. I put the article out there because of how ridiculous it was. Particularly the authors. The article came from an ACSC shoe clerk instructor for OLMP. Even from your ivory tower rain you know light greys shouldn't strafe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OL Patch Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) The C model bros during DS happened upon some jets on a ramp and trucks on a road. Eye opening experience for them..BTW the young wingman blew the crap outta the bad guy truck while his grizzled patch flight lead spewed 20mm all over the place and didn't hit a thing...he took some light hearted eagle std bashing for that one....I'll pitch cold outta the thread diatribe if it is good idea or not...agree with Evil though....if a chance is there to help out a fellow American(and not commit the cardinal sin of frat)...clear me in hot plz....but at my age a poopy suit may be required at all temps. Edit spelling Edited November 4, 2012 by OL Patch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I put the article out there because of how ridiculous it was. Sure you did. Even from your ivory tower rain you know light greys shouldn't strafe. Speak for yourself, not for me. I did not say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 (edited) Sure you did. So you completely missed the fact that I put the most outrageous comment in quotes under the link? Did you miss the part where i explained where i found it and who posted it for ACSC? That stroke is getting to ya. Edited November 4, 2012 by Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTAC Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Shit, maybe even a diploma mill degree would help some of you develop thinking skills after all. I resent that. I paid for this inability to think from an accredited university. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I resent that. I paid for this inability to think from an accredited university.wish I had. For real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 The C model bros during DS happened upon some jets on a ramp and trucks on a road. Eye opening experience for them..BTW the young wingman blew the crap outta the bad guy truck while his grizzled patch flight lead spewed 20mm all over the place and didn't hit a thing...he took some light hearted eagle std bashing for that one. Standby for sweet I'm SOF to roll in and ask for a published source to back this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 So you completely missed the fact that I put the most outrageous comment in quotes under the link? Did you miss the part where i explained where i found it and who posted it for ACSC? That stroke is getting to ya. That wasn't the most outrageous quote. Not even close. You made a comment about the article being stupid after I did. You certainly didn't say that originally. You now claim the most outrageous quote was about F-16s and that was after making a "worthless metal clogging up the stack" comment. You whipped out your "CAS is what I know" dick out and you continue to claim it is stupid for an Eagle to consider using the gun against any target on the ground, which I totally disagree with. Pardon me for not following your highly nuanced technique of really meaning the opposite of what you type. Selectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Pardon me for not following your highly nuanced technique of really meaning the opposite of what you type. Selectively. Hit the post button twice didja? Don't drive angry... Besides, I was looking for an excuse to post a Groundhog Day excerpt. Good call on taking Winchester to task on the posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialD Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 (edited) Hit the post button twice didja? Don't drive angry... I think he posted it twice for the retards on this thread. Clearly some people need to read it twice for things to sink in! Edited November 5, 2012 by SocialD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet I'm SOF Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Standby for sweet I'm SOF to roll in and ask for a published source to back this up. On cue. A good story from OL Patch, as was the last one about C models strafing. I've asked around - nobody seems to have heard of this except through rumint lore. A documented source would be advantageous to all. There is a documented source about an E model strafing at Robert's Ridge- it is in a guy's Silver Star citation. Not the NYT, but when that guy's buds start telling the tale, it is a bit more credible when there is something in writing to back it up. Apparently I am the first person on this forum to ask for a source other than "my buddy said" or "I said." The principle is bigger than whether or not C models strafed in DS. If you are going to make a claim, you have a couple of options. One of them is to rest on your rank/experience and hope that it carries you. You are taking a chance, because your rank and experience might not carry as much weight as you think, depending on your audience. I'm not referring to an internet audience, I'm referring to folks in your unit that you have to face the next day. Another option is to back up your claim with documentation.....especially when asked to do so. If you cannot pull that off, in this day and age of google - if you cannot back up a claim, it is likely less than gospel. Unfortunately, your rank and experience will not pull you out of that quandary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I've asked around - nobody seems to have heard of this except through rumint lore. Oh, you've "asked around" and no one you asked can confirm something that happened 20 fucking years ago? No shit? You might want to forgive a few people if they give less credibility to your connections than they do to Ol Patch's "story" based on his knowing the guys and giving his fellow weapons officer shit for getting beat on the range by his wingman. if you cannot back up a claim, it is likely less than gospel. LOL, the gospel of medal citations. You're funny. Craniums up inspector, a lot of stuff that actually happens in combat doesn't make into medal citations. Almost as much stuff as what doesn't actually happen but does make it into medal citations. Almost as much. Nothing ruins a good war story like an eye witness...and the best war stories typically don't make it into a medal citation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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