February 25, 201213 yr If someone is doing their best, why do you care about the source of their motivation? I don't care as long as I believe it won't effect their judgement but this isn't about that. The rule is no God at work. It is that simple.
February 25, 201213 yr Nope. But I do own property near an airport that I'm trying to persuade to move somewhere else... How can I build a house there with all that airplane noise...[/sarcasm] Someone can't tell the difference between a choice and a mandate.
February 25, 201213 yr If your belief system is so weak you can't stand someone talking about theirs, it's probably time to abandon your belief system. I'm pretty much an atheist, but I have the ability to sit quietly and bow my head respectfully when the chaplain starts his invocation. I also have the ability to listen to really religious superiors make references to God in their briefings without getting bent out of shape. We take this stuff WAY to seriously. Unless your boss is giving you a worse rating for not going to the same church, or sending people who don't agree with his religion to terrible assignments, or in some way forcing the squadron to follow his religious beliefs, then let it go...like an adult.
February 25, 201213 yr If someone is doing their best, why do you care about the source of their motivation? Because we had a gunner who wouldn't load the guns over Afghanistan because "thou shall not kill".
February 25, 201213 yr Because we had a gunner who wouldn't load the guns over Afghanistan because "thou shall not kill". YGBFSM. What the hell did that guy think he would be doing after his training was complete? Please tell me my sarcasm detector is inop.
February 25, 201213 yr YGBFSM. What the hell did that guy think he would be doing after his training was complete? Please tell me my sarcasm detector is inop. No, he was discharged for being a CO, shortly after.
February 25, 201213 yr Did he ever explain himself? I mean, seriously, what did he think he'd be shooting at?
February 25, 201213 yr If your belief system is so weak you can't stand someone talking about theirs, it's probably time to abandon your belief system. I'm pretty much an atheist, but I have the ability to sit quietly and bow my head respectfully when the chaplain starts his invocation. I also have the ability to listen to really religious superiors make references to God in their briefings without getting bent out of shape. We take this stuff WAY to seriously. Unless your boss is giving you a worse rating for not going to the same church, or sending people who don't agree with his religion to terrible assignments, or in some way forcing the squadron to follow his religious beliefs, then let it go...like an adult. Someone talking about their beliefs is one thing. A commander listing his "priorities" and "rules" is another. One is personal, the other gives the impression of expectations.
February 25, 201213 yr Unless your boss is giving you a worse rating for not going to the same church, or sending people who don't agree with his religion to terrible assignments, or in some way forcing the squadron to follow his religious beliefs, then let it go...like an adult. That's fine, but how do you know? You don't. That's why it should be left out of the workplace altogether. The rule should be expanded to forbid any percieved endorsement, even in casual conversation, of any position on politics, foreign policies, social issues, supreme court rulings, guns, speed limits, office temperatures, pets, and favorite colors. For commanders or everyone?
February 25, 201213 yr So if you had only known religion dictated his behavior and motivations, this event could have been avoided, right? Is this an argument for or against religious zealots keeping a lid on their beliefs at work? My point is when religion extends too far into our line of work, it never works for anyone.
February 25, 201213 yr Someone talking about their beliefs is one thing. A commander listing his "priorities" and "rules" is another. One is personal, the other gives the impression of expectations. The big problem with this CC call is he tried to be cutesy and use alliteration in his title.
February 25, 201213 yr We should squelch any workplace communication that isn't based purely on facts and pretend we're all the same and life is fair. Too far is too vague. Let's draw the line at absolutes. I was asking a serious question because my sarcasm chip detector is flickering here...
February 25, 201213 yr Someone can't tell the difference between a choice and a mandate. Nice assumption. You obviously missed my point. PM me if you want to discuss it further. No sense flaming out over this one - my popcorn machine is broken. Edited February 25, 201213 yr by Carpetbagger
February 25, 201213 yr Both. In addition to religion, there are numerous other opinions, beliefs, moral reasonings that can be used as a descriminator in the workplace. People shouldn't have to serve while coping with another's differing belief or fearing a supervisor or coworker may form a negtive opinion of them based on expressions of creative thought. All moral persuations and divergent thinking should be squashed. I shouldn't have to see a Bible in the deployment line or be subjected to a suggestion that I go see the Chaplain after last Friday night's events. That's bullshit. One can't be expected to simply deal with the reality people think differently. We should squelch any workplace communication that isn't based purely on facts and pretend we're all the same and life is fair. Too far is too vague. Let's draw the line at absolutes. We should probably go ahead an eliminate chaplains entirely, right? I mean, separation of church and state being what it is, how can we employ religious leaders? If you really have that much of a problem with bibles being available for people who want them on the deployment line, it might be time to find a better outlet for your problems. Spiritual health is one of the DoDs stated priorities, although they are very clear about not endorsing any single path to spiritual well-being. You are now crossing the same line, going in the opposite direction...hammering people for showing any sign of belief, which is just as bad as hammering someone for believing differently than you do. I can't believe that as college-educated, professional military officers, we can't fucking live and let live with regards to other people's personal beliefs.
February 25, 201213 yr Exactly. How can we ask a General to stop expressing his beliefs in conjunction with an official event when we've all attended AF events where an invocation was given such as a Change of Command ceremony? The AF has always employed Chaplains to attend the "spiritual needs" of airmen and act in an official capacity during certain events. If the General can't express a belief, there is no place for Chaplains, either. But we shouldn't stop there, any questionable opinion or belief should be strictly verboten. I can't tell...is this sarcasm, or do you really think we need an anti-religious crusade?
February 26, 201213 yr ....dude, really? You can't tell? Holy shit man. Don't say "holy" shit, Hoss...that's religious and offensive.
February 26, 201213 yr Speaking as a very religious person in a very irreverent Air Force, I know there is a time and place for religion. My own beliefs about God and mankind are what justify, to me, bringing a world of hurt on bad people on the ground. However, that is MY belief, and while I would love to share it with people, I only do it when they ASK, not at a mandatory briefing. My 2 Cents. On the other topic about letting people know you are religious, I may not be the best TDY partyer there is, but my buddy on a TDY in Thailand was very grateful I wasn't drunk--did a strategic save to keep him from the clutches of a Ladyboy.
February 26, 201213 yr Don't confuse being religious with being a busybody...plenty of Mormons and Baptists in the squadron who have fun hanging out (and DDing).
February 26, 201213 yr Author Personally, I'm pretty weary of people who justify doing their job to their best ability, and generally being a good person because they are trying to keep on good terms with their god. Why not just try and leave the place better than it was when you got here with not an ulterior motivation. Seems pretty selfish if you ask me.
February 26, 201213 yr Personally, I'm pretty weary of people who justify doing their job to their best ability, and generally being a good person because they are trying to keep on good terms with their god. Why not just try and leave the place better than it was when you got here with not an ulterior motivation. Seems pretty selfish if you ask me. Wow. You just don't get it. Maybe you should go talk to a chaplain, if for no other reason so that you can at least be mad about legit stuff, not inaccurate assumptions. We have plenty of stuff you can disagree with that would be legit, but this...it's just so inaccurate that it's not even worth more than this post.
February 26, 201213 yr did a strategic save to keep him from the clutches of a Ladyboy. Guy can't even get some hot Thai action without the God squad getting all judgmental.
February 26, 201213 yr The AF has always employed Chaplains to attend the "spiritual needs" of airmen and act in an official capacity during certain events. The AF has never employed Chaplains to command people in combat.
February 26, 201213 yr Guy can't even get some hot Thai action without the God squad getting all judgmental. Yeah man, live and let live.
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