DeHavilland Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Crash pilot who paused to pray is convicted Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:36pm EDT PALERMO (Reuters) - A Tunisian pilot who paused to pray instead of taking emergency measures before crash-landing his plane, killing 16 people, has been sentenced to 10 years in jail by an Italian court along with his co-pilot. The 2005 crash at sea off Sicily left survivors swimming for their lives, some clinging to a piece of the fuselage that remained floating after the ATR turbo-prop aircraft splintered upon impact. A fuel-gauge malfunction was partly to blame but prosecutors also said the pilot succumbed to panic, praying out loud instead of following emergency procedures and then opting to crash-land the plane instead trying to reach a nearby airport. Another five employees of Tuninter, a subsidiary of Tunisair, were sentenced to between eight and nine years in jail by the court, in a verdict handed down Monday. The seven accused, who were not in court, will not spend time in jail until the appeals process has been exhausted. (Writing by Phil Stewart) While taking criminal action against a flight crew after an accident is not the best way to get things done, based only on this article, the crews actions in this accident don't paint the best picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cell Dweller Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Here is the full breakdown of parties held guilty for the crash, but it does not mention the praying portion of the incident, rather that the pilots did not follow proper emergency procedures: From Aviation Week: Seven Tuninter pilots, technicians and managers have been convicted by an Italian tribunal for a crash in which 23 passengers survived and 16 were killed in August 2005. The crash involved an ATR-72 that took off from Bari, Italy, and was headed to Djerba, Tunisia, and was forced to ditch in the sea just along the Sicilian coast. The incident was caused because the aircraft fuel gauges and indicators had been incorrectly replaced by the maintenance personnel with those of the ATR-42. The instruments indicated there was enough fuel on board when the aircraft took off, while there was not actually enough fuel to carry out the intended flight. The two pilots have been charged with multiple counts of manslaughter and air disaster, and sentenced to a term of 10 years because, in theory, they had the opportunity to reach the Palermo Airport for an emergency landing if they had followed proper procedure. Another five technicians and managers have been found guilty, with the chief operating officer and the maintenance chief sentenced to nine years each, while three technicians have been sentenced eight years each. Two others defendants were not found guilty. None of those indicted were present at the tribunal, and Tuninter lawyers have announced they will appeal the verdict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Pray-viate, navigate, communicate, right? Or is praying part of the communicate? Either way, the Italians take this shiite really seriously over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoleIt Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Glad to see someone takes it seriously. I can't imagine the kind of shit storm would accompany that verdict here. ACLU would be all over that case like a fat kid on a cupcake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60 driver Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Pray-viate, navigate, communicate, right? Or is praying part of the communicate? Dude, it's in the checklist. http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cvr040103.htm Also reminds me of the UPT stories about the Saudi studs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toro Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Apparently nobody here has flown with Saudis. "Hey - you've got an engine fire!" "Allah Akbar....." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 ^ "...inshallah..." Heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kayla Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I am not a pilot/pilot-trainee, therefore I know jack about the act of piloting.... That being said: The two pilots have been charged with multiple counts of manslaughter and air disaster, and sentenced to a term of 10 years because, in theory, they had the opportunity to reach the Palermo Airport for an emergency landing if they had followed proper procedure. Another five technicians and managers have been found guilty, with the chief operating officer and the maintenance chief sentenced to nine years each, while three technicians have been sentenced eight years each. Two others defendants were not found guilty. None of those indicted were present at the tribunal, and Tuninter lawyers have announced they will appeal the verdict. Why is the whole crew being punished? If the pilot(s) had the means to land the plane, and for whatever reason chose not to, why punish the WHOLE crew? The whole crew wasn't flying the plane, just the pilot(s). Now, if the pilot(s) had "saved the day" something just tells me that only the pilot(s) would be given the credit.. and the rest of the crew would be going about their day... Anyone have any possible insight to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) i'm guessing it has to do with the faulty fuel gage, probably ignored signs to repair/replace or something... Edited March 26, 2009 by day man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertigo Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 i'm guessing it has to do with the faulty fuel gage, probably ignored signs to repair/replace or something... Failing to follow TOs in regards to the install, etc. Many possible scenarios. Most likely it was found that the maintainers weren't following directives and that management had failed to correct this prior to an incident. Just speculating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kayla Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Do you, experienced pilots, think that they whole crew should be charged? If the pilot had the oppertunity to land the plane on land... and decided to "pray" or whatever he did.. and crashed into the ocean... shouldn't that fall on his shoulders? I, again, do not know the ins and outs of planes.. but cant a gauge be faulty? and start acting faulty after a few times of use? Or in the middle of being used? Yes, living with me can be quite fun since I ask all these "why? When? Where? How?" questions :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jollygreen Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Based strictly on the limited information provided in this thread. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Form 8 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Do you, experienced pilots, think that they whole crew should be charged? If the pilot had the oppertunity to land the plane on land... and decided to "pray" or whatever he did.. and crashed into the ocean... shouldn't that fall on his shoulders? I, again, do not know the ins and outs of planes.. but cant a gauge be faulty? and start acting faulty after a few times of use? Or in the middle of being used? Yes, living with me can be quite fun since I ask all these "why? When? Where? How?" questions :-) It's a crew aircraft. Yes. Which is why the Air Force is big on having good CRM as a crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kayla Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 (edited) It's a crew aircraft. Yes. Which is why the Air Force is big on having good CRM as a crew. CRM? Crew Resource Mgt? Edited March 27, 2009 by The Kayla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Form 8 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 CRM? Crew Resource Mgt? Crew Resource Management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I, again, do not know the ins and outs of planes.. but cant a gauge be faulty? and start acting faulty after a few times of use? Or in the middle of being used? Yes, living with me can be quite fun since I ask all these "why? When? Where? How?" questions :-) Yes, it can. If it randomly acts up in flight, you get in the checklist and fix the problem, all while maintaining aircraft control...it doesn't do any good to fix a fuel problem if you drive into a mountain. If the maintenance crews, etc. are being drug into this, it doesn't sound so random though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coasta Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Wow. There is a time a place to pray. It's definitely not while you should be following procrdure (maybe the second before you kiss your ass goodbye) or troubleshooting a problem that isn't written in an all-encompassing checklist. I had an IP (on my AC rec ride years ago) start the crew brief with prayer. I about walked out of the room, but decided to recheck the nonfactor NOTAMS. Now before all the god-squatteres jump all over me, read the 2nd sentence. Coasta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BQZip01 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Wow. There is a time a place to pray. It's definitely not while you should be following procrdure (maybe the second before you kiss your ass goodbye) or troubleshooting a problem that isn't written in an all-encompassing checklist. I had an IP (on my AC rec ride years ago) start the crew brief with prayer. I about walked out of the room, but decided to recheck the nonfactor NOTAMS. Now before all the god-squatteres jump all over me, read the 2nd sentence. Coasta I personally think it would be a good idea to start a crew brief with a prayer. That said, I also would not be offended if someone opted to sit out. Freedom is the freedom not to participate as much as it is to participate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jice Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 (edited) I personally think it would be a good idea to start a crew brief with a prayer. That said, I also would not be offended if someone opted to sit out. Freedom is the freedom not to participate as much as it is to participate. In the civilian world I know many people who like to start their flights/briefs with a prayer. That's great, provided you know the people you're flying with, their beliefs etc.; however, while we're sort of still on the subject of CRM, it seems to me that this would be the easiest and most effective of all possible ways to isolate members of a crew. After all, when one prays he/she is commenting on the entire freakin' universe. Excluding a crew member like this ruins crew climate, results in that crew member being less likely to be assertive (think United 173), and in extreme cases breeds anger and frustration. Prayer has a place on a flight deck only if you are 100% certain of its result; otherwise, thank God that he's forgotten men aren't supposed to fly on your own time. Edited March 27, 2009 by jice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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