Leadership at the 'Deid

[BQZip01]

Since I made a special trip over there for these pics I'll post them. Good thing is that my PT-wearin' captain ass only had to salute 4 senior officers on the 200 yard walk there and back.

I mis-typed on my post about the grammar. I guess there is a colon in there, but no comma in the "no reflective belt no service" sentence.

Nicely done...

[Disco_Nav963]

Anyone hear about the Marine O-6 that commissioned a legal revue that found AUAB is in the wrong in denying people food over disco belt wear? Supposedly an e-mail went out to everyone at the CAOC and general officers got involved.

[pawnman]

Anyone hear about the Marine O-6 that commissioned a legal revue that found AUAB is in the wrong in denying people food over disco belt wear? Supposedly an e-mail went out to everyone at the CAOC and general officers got involved.

Go Marines...while we're all complaining about it, they're actively pursuing solutions to the problem.

[JS]

Anyone hear about the Marine O-6 that commissioned a legal revue that found AUAB is in the wrong in denying people food over disco belt wear? Supposedly an e-mail went out to everyone at the CAOC and general officers got involved.

Yeah, in post # 1460 when I said "Rumor has it that denying food and/or forcing TCN's to enforce the faux indoor reflective belt policy is not quite legal and is being investigated," I meant to say that it was not quite legal and was being investigated.

Let me tell you, the Marines here are not fucking around. I saw said O-6 having a nice chat with the girls trying to enforce the policy at the chow hall the other night (he was actually being nice, and had them laughing - after all, it is not their fault that their commander is setting them up for failure). I also couldn't help but notice that all 8 Marines who came in several separate groups did not have reflective belts on. I am no Marine, but young Marines just don't take it upon themselves to disobey rules like that - especially the "coincidence" that each and every Marine I have ever seen in the chow hall was not wearing their fag belt indoors. Obviously, something came from Marine Corps high above about not wearing the fag belts here. Good on them.

[JarheadBoom]

About time someone with a set of testicles (and enough rank to make a difference) showed up to that fight...

[JS]

Anyone hear about the Marine O-6 that commissioned a legal revue that found AUAB is in the wrong in denying people food over disco belt wear? Supposedly an e-mail went out to everyone at the CAOC and general officers got involved.

Along those lines, it has been interesting seeing how the denial of food has receded over the past week. About 8 days ago, there were two signs threatening "no belt, no service" and people had trays ripped out of their hands. Two days later, only one sign of "no belt, no service." Two days after that, that sign is gone, and a new, tiny sign inside says "you must have a reflective belt during hours of darkness" (emphasis mine), and not actually wear it indoors. Two days after that, no signs at all anywhere in the chow hall. No roving patrols, no tray grabbings, no hassles about getting food without a reflective belt. It seems that things have calmed down and the "rebellion" is having some effect.

I am no conspiracy theorist, but unfortunately I think (have written proof) that the so-called leadership is taking a lesson from the Taliban and simply pulling back to regroup and hit the base with an even fiercer attack of stupidity in the very near future. They are simply licking their wounds about the legality thing and have already devised plans to further the attack of the REMF's. They will probably have their legal ducks in a row this time and will make an even harder stand. What else would the management here have to do? I guess attending the multiple Fallen Warrior ceremonies and having to process 30 caskets in 24 hours really gave them the initiative to help "fight the war" with more rules. After having seen all those caskets, one can't help but wonder how the managemnt here can think about anything else but reflective belts and other ways to win the war.

More to follow as details become available.

[Vertigo]

Along those lines, it has been interesting seeing how the denial of food has receded over the past week. About 8 days ago, there were two signs threatening "no belt, no service" and people had trays ripped out of their hands. Two days later, only one sign of "no belt, no service." Two days after that, that sign is gone, and a new, tiny sign inside says "you must have a reflective belt during hours of darkness" (emphasis mine), and not actually wear it indoors. Two days after that, no signs at all anywhere in the chow hall. No roving patrols, no tray grabbings, no hassles about getting food without a reflective belt. It seems that things have calmed down and the "rebellion" is having some effect.

So basically the O5 was wrong for putting out this mandate, was called out on it and was forced to retract it. I'm sure AF leadership will reward this DB with O6 in the near future.

[Pitt4401]

Anyone hear about the Marine O-6 that commissioned a legal revue that found AUAB is in the wrong in denying people food over disco belt wear? Supposedly an e-mail went out to everyone at the CAOC and general officers got involved.

Dude PM me, I think I know who you are talking about. This O-6 has salty written all over him, in fact I told him that if the commandant wanted to come in and take over the base, that he should go for it.

I for one welcome our Marine overlords

[BQZip01]

Yeah, in post # 1460 when I said "Rumor has it that denying food and/or forcing TCN's to enforce the faux indoor reflective belt policy is not quite legal and is being investigated," I meant to say that it was not quite legal and was being investigated.

Let me tell you, the Marines here are not fucking around. I saw said O-6 having a nice chat with the girls trying to enforce the policy at the chow hall the other night (he was actually being nice, and had them laughing - after all, it is not their fault that their commander is setting them up for failure). I also couldn't help but notice that all 8 Marines who came in several separate groups did not have reflective belts on. I am no Marine, but young Marines just don't take it upon themselves to disobey rules like that - especially the "coincidence" that each and every Marine I have ever seen in the chow hall was not wearing their fag belt indoors. Obviously, something came from Marine Corps high above about not wearing the fag belts here. Good on them.

Actually, the Marines have never been permitted to wear the reflective belts (by their regulations). If boneheads in the Air Force think they can make someone violate the rules of their chain of command or they don't eat, they are sorely mistaken. Even the guys at Gitmo eat better than that...

...some to think of it, why aren't the prisoners wearing any reflective clothing?...

Edited October 29, 2009 by BQZip01

[Murph]

Did I say revue? That sounds like the old Dancing Itos skit. I obviously meant review, but the mistake is humorous enough I'll leave it.

I thought of trying to join the Marines somehow for the first time today.

Good stuff. Here's to Colonels with balls telling REMFs get a grip . I'm really interested to see what comes of the legal review--keep us non UAB'ers informed.

[pawnman]

Dude PM me, I think I know who you are talking about. This O-6 has salty written all over him, in fact I told him that if the commandant wanted to come in and take over the base, that he should go for it.

I for one welcome our Marine overlords

2.

[slacker]

Along those lines, it has been interesting seeing how the denial of food has receded over the past week. About 8 days ago, there were two signs threatening "no belt, no service" and people had trays ripped out of their hands. Two days later, only one sign of "no belt, no service." Two days after that, that sign is gone, and a new, tiny sign inside says "you must have a reflective belt during hours of darkness" (emphasis mine), and not actually wear it indoors. Two days after that, no signs at all anywhere in the chow hall. No roving patrols, no tray grabbings, no hassles about getting food without a reflective belt. It seems that things have calmed down and the "rebellion" is having some effect.

I am no conspiracy theorist, but unfortunately I think (have written proof) that the so-called leadership is taking a lesson from the Taliban and simply pulling back to regroup and hit the base with an even fiercer attack of stupidity in the very near future. They are simply licking their wounds about the legality thing and have already devised plans to further the attack of the REMF's. They will probably have their legal ducks in a row this time and will make an even harder stand. What else would the management here have to do? I guess attending the multiple Fallen Warrior ceremonies and having to process 30 caskets in 24 hours really gave them the initiative to help "fight the war" with more rules. After having seen all those caskets, one can't help but wonder how the managemnt here can think about anything else but reflective belts and other ways to win the war.

More to follow as details become available.

JS and fellow deid kindergarteners,

JS was correct on his conspiracy theory. The REMFs have strengthened their position and now reign down on you from the highest seat in all the deid kingdom.

A birdie from the deid told me of a message, it was intercepted from the highest levels, and I’m sure will be posted here shortly. It calls for the chow-hall-like refusal of service at all locations on base for uniform/safety violations. It also request the Security Force RAMs (but for reflective belts) all over base by all management.

I am sorry, save yourselves. I hope never to visit there again. It is worse than elementary school, except in elementary school, I wasn't trusted with hundreds of millions of dollars in equipment and trusted with hundreds of lives. I cannot be trusted to walk, freaking WALK without being reflective. I am too dumb to move out of the way of the runaway forklift plowing thru the chow-hall. The walls didn’t stop him, but my reflectiveness will.

God have mercy on your souls.

[Guest Hobbit64]

Safety!

[Vertigo]

It calls for the chow-hall-like refusal of service at all locations on base for uniform/safety violations. It also request the Security Force RAMs (but for reflective belts) all over base by all management.

Please tell me you're just stirring shit and didn't really hear this. Lie to me if you have to.

[JS]

So basically the O5 was wrong for putting out this mandate, was called out on it and was forced to retract it. I'm sure AF leadership will reward this DB with O6 in the near future.

WHOOOAA. Slow down! Said douche-bag was only an O-4 when he put those signs and emails out. He was recently selected for O-5. We have to start these "junior officers" out early to keep them on the right track of leadership. Baby steps, baby steps.

On a side note, it was his boss and his bosses boss who pushed this crap.

[JS]

Please note that this email was sent out less than 24 hours after 30 of our fallen warriors transited this base and were given full military honors by hundreds of people. Quite a sobering and somber event, I must say. Names erased to protect the innocent and names XXXXX'ed out to hide those who have lost mission focus.

-----Original Message-----

From: xxxxxxxxxx Col USAF AFCENT 379 AEW/CV

Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:02 PM

To: 379 AEW Commanders; 379 AEW Group Commanders; 379 AEW Group Deputy Commander; 379 AEW Group Leadership; 379 AEW Squadron Commanders; AUAB Chiefs

Cc: 379 AEW/CCC Command Chief Master Sergeant;

[removed the names of each and every base organization with the letters "/CC" after them]

Subject: Uniform/Safety enforcement

ALCON,

The EFSS has been working diligently to enforce regulatory requirements and standards throughout the base. Although this effort was extremely successful, it is time for the rest of the leadership on this base to take some of the heat. With that, I am ordering the 379 AEW GP/CCs, GP/CDs, SQ/CCs, SQ/DOs and Chiefs to begin a random effort towards enforcement of uniform and safety standards. As this program progresses we will request that all of our base leadership, including tenant organizations help us in this effort.

Since I do not know each of your schedules, I will not micromanage this to a time and day. What I would like (expect) to see is that you work amongst yourselves to start a random effort at each of the DFACs, gyms, the DEL and the BXs (for that matter, any base facility). What this should look like is a Force Protection RAM where on different nights, at different times and at different locations we have leadership in place to enforce safety (reflective belts) and uniform standards. From the entrances of these facilities, as folks come in, simply reinforce the standards by requiring compliance (uniform or safety) before they will be allowed to use that particular base facility (i.e. "go back and get your reflective belt or go back and get into proper uniform"). We will not be denying them anything! We are simply enforcing the rules and regulations of the base before they are allowed to continue use of the facilities (i.e. "they will have full access as long as they comply with the lawful rules of the base"). This is no different than in garrison rules such as "you must be in uniform to use base finance". Compliance with these requirements is a direct order from the Installation Commander, so do not hesitate to remind violators of that if you receive push-back. With that being said, "Be Polite (xxxxxx xxxxxxxx), Be Courteous, and Be Professional, however be unwavering.

We have a "new rotation" on base that may not be fully aware of our rules and with this effort we should be able to gently educate them. Thank you in advance for all your help on this and please contact me if you run into any issues.

V/R

xxxxxxxxxxxx, Col USAF

Vice Commander, 379th Air Expeditionary Wing

I am no Mao Tse Tung, but I am open to suggestions on our next move in this "resistance" movement of ours. Letters to any newspapers??? Legal actions with regards to being denied food (you can tell how he is trying to cover his legal ass by saying they are not denying food, simply enforcing uniform rules)???

By the way, does anyone have the regulation that says a base can't deny TDY people food for any reason? I heard it exists, but I am not a reg expert.

[discus]

Since I do not know each of your schedules, I will not micromanage this

to a time and day. What I would like (expect) to see is that you work

amongst yourselves to start a random effort at each of the DFACs, gyms,

the DEL and the BXs (for that matter, any base facility). What this

should look like is a Force Protection RAM where on different nights, at

different times and at different locations we have leadership in place

to enforce safety (reflective belts) and uniform standards. From the

entrances of these facilities, as folks come in, simply reinforce the

standards by requiring compliance (uniform or safety) before they will

be allowed to use that particular base facility (i.e. "go back and get

your reflective belt or go back and get into proper uniform"). We will

not be denying them anything! We are simply enforcing the rules and

regulations of the base before they are allowed to continue use of the

facilities (i.e. "they will have full access as long as they comply with

the lawful rules of the base"). This is no different than in garrison

rules such as "you must be in uniform to use base finance". Compliance

with these requirements is a direct order from the Installation

Commander, so do not hesitate to remind violators of that if you receive

push-back. With that being said, "Be Polite (xxxxxx xxxxxxxx), Be

Courteous, and Be Professional, however be unwavering.

Now wait just a god-damned second here. What I am seeing is an order (From what I assume is a full-bull Colonel) to his squadron commanders that they MUST take time out of their busy days to go enforce a f'ing REFLECTIVE belt policy?!?! Really?!?! So, my commander or DO, who already work 14-18 hour shifts have to take time out of their day to stand around the gym pointing out violators?? Are we, or are we not trying to fight a war here. These ass clowns are acting like there is nothing else going on. To them there are no 18 year old kids being returned to their parents in a body bag. There is no war, and this is a peace-time deployment. Have they total lost focus? Is everyone really this insane? What has happened to my Air Force??? The USAF I joined in 1995 was still coming off of a high from kicking ass in desert storm. It was a proud force, where if I saw a 1LT come into my shop, I wondered who the hell was in trouble because someone THAT high ranking wouldn't be there unless someone screwed up. Now we have a MSgt ripping a tray out of an officers hands because he does not have his reflective belt on. This is pure madness!! I thought that in becoming an officer I would be able to make a difference. That I could help revert this great fighting force back to at least where it was when I joined.

If anyone in leadership is reading this, do you not understand?!?!??! Your CGO's and mid-level NCO's who are hacking the mission are screaming at you. THERE ARE PEOPLE DYING OUT THERE. THEY ARE OUR KIDS. THEY ARE OUR FUTURE, AND YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT A ######ING REFLECTIVE BELT!!!! Leadership, get your heads screwed on straight, let's get out there and kick some ass!! Stop being a bunch of pussies who are scared of their own shadow and let's either do this, or let's go home. Don't half ass things either way. Jumping Jesus on a bicycle.

//Rant Sorry about that, it's 2:41 in the morning and I did just wake up out of a restless sleep to get this off my chest.

OUT.

Edited October 30, 2009 by discus

[Vertigo]

Please note that this email was sent out less than 24 hours after 30 of our fallen warriors transited this base and were given full military honors by hundreds of people. Quite a sobering and somber event, I must say. Names erased to protect the innocent and names XXXXX'ed out to hide those who have lost mission focus.

Apparently you missed the part where I said "lie to me if you have to".

I've decided that if I have to go to or transit the deid anytime in the next 6 months I'm going to take one set of PT gear and fully cover them with reflective material. I have about 12 disco belts that I will cut up and glue to my shorts/pants and tshirt so that I have 100% coverage on all clothing above the shoes in reflective material.

[pawnman]

Apparently you missed the part where I said "lie to me if you have to".

I've decided that if I have to go to or transit the deid anytime in the next 6 months I'm going to take one set of PT gear and fully cover them with reflective material. I have about 12 disco belts that I will cut up and glue to my shorts/pants and tshirt so that I have 100% coverage on all clothing above the shoes in reflective material.

And you'll still be accused of not wearing an actual belt.

My SQ/CC has drunk the kool-aid. We got an email today directing us that, if we "forget" our reflective belts, turn around and get them. Don't make any intermediate stops to the chow hall, BX, or DEL, go back to your room and get your reflective belt.

Time was, squadron leadership provided topcover. This is the reason why the diamond douchebags can walk all over the CGOs...because they have the backing of the senior leadership.

I would like to throw out, to any of you who still have sane commanders, that "random" means "statistically equal chance"...so if your leadership doesn't check anyone, everyone has the same statistical chance of being checked (0%)...technically, random.

[Guest Lockjaw25]

Discus,

2

As for all of this...

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

That email needs to be forwarded to AF times

[DirkDiggler]

I don't know if I've seen a better example of the complete loss of mission focus. Our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are busy slugging it out with AQI and the Taliban while our leaders, who should be concentrating on how best to employ and coordinate our air assests to support said troops and win the f#!ckin war, are concerned with reflective belts and tucked PT shirts. I cannot understand how someone could possibly watch a body bag, a coffin, or a litter being carried off the back of one of our aircraft and then turn around and issue an email like that.

[BQZip01]

Wow...just wow...

Call me strange, but it seems to me there is a simpler solution here. Let the squadron commanders deal with their own personnel. If Johnny no-brains has the gaul to intentionally ignore the lawful orders of a full bird Colonel, then you ask him for the name of his supervisor and bring it up with them.

The problem is that this would result in confrontation by people who don't want to be confrontational and some people would slip through the cracks because they are "too cool" to follow the rules or too wimpy to confront someone. Guess what, that means you have to take responsibility for your people and do the right thing even if its difficult.

Now this entire statement is irrespective of whether or not the belt is a good or bad idea.

The problem here is that this rule and its overbearing enforcement is significantly disproportionate with the safety risk involved. More importantly, they are not providing firm guidance "I'm not going to dictate how you do it..." which will invariably lead to someone taking it too far.

Then there is the lack of common sense: why do you need a reflective belt if you aren't going anywhere near a street? From what I remember, most people can walk to the BRA, the bar, the BX, etc without crossing a road. If so, then what is the problem? Why do you need a reflective belt? It is simply impractical.

If they are really going to go this route, here's the nice-guy, simple solution. Simply have a table set up in front of the BX checking IDs and uniforms. If someone isn't in uniform and refuses to change, simply take down their name & unit and let them go on their merry way. Then send the names to the squadron commanders and let THEM deal with it.

I think this reflects poorly on the leadership if this is such a hot-button issue. I contend there are significantly more important things to do than waste so much time on this. I think this is the result of having too much down time. If people were there to do a job and do a job only, this wouldn't be a problem. Instead, unlike when I was there, guys have 5 days of work 8-10 hours a day. This leads to excessive down time in a "combat zone". Invariably, these folks are going to have too much free time and get into trouble. For some reason, leadership seems to think reflective belts are the problem.

I should also note that even General Patton made his troops wear ties into battle. The difference with him is that he told his troops to do it and they respected him enough to comply.

Edited October 30, 2009 by BQZip01

[BQZip01]

on a related topic...

[GearMonkey]

I love the way leadership assumes a "new rotation" is to blame for the resistance they are encountering. It couldn't possibly be a result of their asinine rulings. When is there not a new rotation at OTBH? I guess this dillusion helps them sleep better at night (in their Taj Mahal DV quarters).

After pondering this situation for the last several days I've decided that a little carrot-and-stick action is in order. I'll gladly wear a RB just as soon as the cadillacs are successfully replaced and transient aircrew are allocated non-tent quarters where they can get quality crew rest. Since neither of these vital issues with enormous health and safety impact are getting any attention I have to assume that leadership does not embracing a true safety culture and, therefore, doesn't give a shit if I wear my RB or not. I haven't thought of a fair trade for tucking in my PT shirt yet.

Someone mentioned that Marines aren't allowed to wear RBs. Well, if we're bending over to standardize with one service which doesn't have nearly as many personnel at OTBH as we do (the Army) why don't we standardize instead with another service which doesn't have nearly as many personnel at OTBH as we do (the Marines). It would still be stupid, because we basically own that place and people should standardize to us, but at least on the issue of RBs everyone would be a lot happier.