Surprise!

Sorry, I guess I was confusing you with someone else.

Surprise!

Sorry, I guess I was confusing you with someone else.

I think that happened to Nsplyr.

Gents,

Anyone press to test on the 36-2107 Note 1b vs 1c? 

I am PCSing with an expected RNLTD (~Aug '16) which is 34 months from my UPT expiration (Jun '19). As I am understanding this, I have to accept the PCS - but the 36 month requal ADSC does not apply because of note 1b - a position I was already Form 8 qualified in. Ergo, my ADSC will remain at Jun '19 regardless of when I finish FTU requal.

 

Separately, all this will be moot if I get passed over for Major, because it will be a mandatory separation 6 months past my ABZ look regardless of all other ADSCs correct?

 

Hoping for the best, but prepping for a shoe clerk battle royale.

Thanks!

 

 

I'd have to go look. IIRC, if it's requal you should be correct. If it's a new MDS then you're SOL. I know lots (ok several) Herk guys who fought and lost the ADSC for J transition.

I did.  AFPC replied with I had to accept the ADSC for Advanced Fly Training but that it would only go out to my UPT ADSC date.  Meaning they revised the form that I signed to show the correct date.   

Any chance you can post that email trail if you still have it? I can PM you my .mil address if you want.

 

 

If it's a new MDS then you're SOL.

If it's a new MDS you can 7 day (3 day?) option out of taking the assignment.  AFPC can't force you to accept an ADSC for a new MDS qual that will take you beyond your current UPT ADSC. 

Of course, they can just adjust the ADSC to match whatever UPT ADSC you have remaining.  Which reeks of desperation, but this is AD Air Force we're talking about. 

I'd have to go look. IIRC, if it's requal you should be correct. If it's a new MDS then you're SOL. I know lots (ok several) Herk guys who fought and lost the ADSC for J transition.

False. I called AFPC and informed them of rule 16, note 1b, and within 5 minutes it was confirmed that I didn't have to sign the ADSC nor was I 7-day opting. J model here I come.

Xaarman, you are requaling in a MWS, which is advanced flying training. Call the Total Force Service Center and inform them of note 1b. You'll still get the PCS ADSC, but that's it.

False. I called AFPC and informed them of rule 16, note 1b, and within 5 minutes it was confirmed that I didn't have to sign the ADSC nor was I 7-day opting. J model here I come.

Xaarman, you are requaling in a MWS, which is advanced flying training. Call the Total Force Service Center and inform them of note 1b. You'll still get the PCS ADSC, but that's it.

I'm glad that worked for you. Seriously.

I went back and forth with AFPC arguing the same point, trying to get them to read the same note. The minion who I was dealing with didn't agree with your and my interpretation of the English language. Ymmv

It is a requal - sounds like there has been some good luck getting them to adhere to the obvious rules.

And just to double check, getting passed over for Major makes all other ADSCs moot right?

 

That's why I don't trust personnelists; I've only met one my entire career who knew what he was doing and how to interpret AFIs.

Xaarman, if you get passed over twice, and not offered continuation, ADSCs will not mean a thing.

It is a requal - sounds like there has been some good luck getting them to adhere to the obvious rules.

And just to double check, getting passed over for Major makes all other ADSCs moot right?

 

If you're 2x passed over and not offered continuation, you get out 6 months after the board date and get invol sep pay. If offered continuation and you elect to get out, you lose invol sep pay.

Can you get out earlier than 6 months? Also if you get passed over due to sending a Do Not Promote letter to the board you forfeit the invol sep pay, correct?

One way employment contracts are illegal everywhere but the military. The only AFI hope is the "financial hardship" clause depending upon interpretation.

At some point you have to say: it is time to go. You then have to ask yourself: is it that time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

4 hours ago, fox two said:

...was offered a contract that was lucrative enough to cover reimbursing the government for breaking the ADSC and punching out.  

If you're unaware if there is even a process, how would you know what those reimbursement costs would be?

3 hours ago, Huggyu2 said:

If you're unaware if there is even a process, how would you know what those reimbursement costs would be?

 

Dug into AFI 36-2107,  ACTIVE DUTY SERVICE COMMITMENTS,  which says:

 

Quote

2.19. Failure to Complete the ADSC for Education, Bonus, or Similar Benefit, Title 37, U. S.C., Section 303a(e) or Section 373.

2.19.1. Members incurring an ADSC on or after 1 April 2006 who fail to complete their ADSC are subject to recoupment, unless waived by the Secretary, of a prorated portion of the cost of educational assistance, financial bonus, or benefit (see AFI 36-3207, Separating Commissioned Officers and AFI 36-3203, Service Retirements)

 

 

I don't know if UPT falls under that but I have yet to find something else in writing.

$1 mil is thrown around as the estimated cost of putting a student through UPT.  So, with 4 out of 10 years remaining, 40% of that would be ~$400k? Anything around that would be worth it.

Edited December 28, 20159 yr by fox two

8 hours ago, fox two said:

 

Dug into AFI 36-2107,  ACTIVE DUTY SERVICE COMMITMENTS,  which says:

 

 

I don't know if UPT falls under that but I have yet to find something else in writing.

$1 mil is thrown around as the estimated cost of putting a student through UPT.  So, with 4 out of 10 years remaining, 40% of that would be ~$400k? Anything around that would be worth it.

Nope.  UPT's not "education, bonus, or similar benefit."  It's training.  Also $1M is completely bogus for many reasons, and certainly wouldn't meet accounting criteria for some sort of payback.  Either palace chase, serve out your commitment, or resign your commission IAW AFI 36-3207.  

There are other options such as writing the Do Not Promote Me letter or failing multiple PT tests.  But those options are going to take time.

One way employment contracts are illegal everywhere but the military. The only AFI hope is the "financial hardship" clause depending upon interpretation.

Because... SERVICE!

Nope.  UPT's not "education, bonus, or similar benefit."  It's training.  Also $1M is completely bogus for many reasons, and certainly wouldn't meet accounting criteria for some sort of payback.  Either palace chase, serve out your commitment, or resign your commission IAW AFI 36-3207.  

I don't entirely disagree with you, but I don't think it's a moot argument either.

One way employment contracts are illegal everywhere but the military. The only AFI hope is the "financial hardship" clause depending upon interpretation.

Because... SERVICE!

Nope.  UPT's not "education, bonus, or similar benefit."  It's training.  Also $1M is completely bogus for many reasons, and certainly wouldn't meet accounting criteria for some sort of payback.  Either palace chase, serve out your commitment, or resign your commission IAW AFI 36-3207.  

I don't entirely disagree with you, but I don't think it's a moot argument either.

I can tell you from experience that, as of about five years ago, that the AF did not have a way to recoup the costs of UPT from a member being kicked out. And I know that an AMC GO tried to figure out a way to do it.

I have 3 years left on my ADSC and have an opportunity to fly T-6s.  I flew T-34's in UPT.  Is there an ADSC associated with the new aircraft or just the 2yr PCS ADSC.  I've read the reg and the thread and am still thoroughly confused.  Anyone in my situation?      

I was a T-6 guy in UPT and I still picked up a 3 year ADSC at PIT when I went to be a T-6 IP.

Check out AFI-36-2107 pg 7 block 16. There is a note about no breaks between mws and aetc pit that should mean you dont have to take the adsc. Put your lawyer shoes on and press to test. 

Edited March 11, 20169 yr by Craftsman

Interesting. I don't understand why they have to make the jargon in regs so hard to read. I need to look up who I need to call to get this taken off my ADSC list. Thanks Craftsman.