C17Driver Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Nov28/0,4...ceCrash,00.html Air Force Jets Collide, but Crews Safe SHUQUALAK, Miss. — Two Air Force jets collided Wednesday during training flights over eastern Mississippi and crashed, but all four crew members ejected safely, an Air Force spokesman said. The T-6 Texan 2 primary trainers collided around midday and crashed near a Columbus Air Force Base auxiliary airfield in Shuqualak, a wooded area about 10 miles from the Alabama line, said 2nd Lt. Craig Rasley, a base spokesman. Air Force investigators are probing the cause of the crash, Rasley said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcflyboy Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 It's been a while since Columbus has had an incident like this. It's amazing how more of these accidents DON'T happen, especially with all the training going on. I went to UPT there, and I know the Aux field that they crashed at. Yes, it is VERY wooded there! Glad to see all four punched out and landed safely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Nov28/0,4...ceCrash,00.html Air Force Jets Collide, but Crews Safe SHUQUALAK, Miss. — Two Air Force jets collided Wednesday during training flights over eastern Mississippi and crashed, but all four crew members ejected safely, an Air Force spokesman said. The T-6 Texan 2 primary trainers collided around midday and crashed near a Columbus Air Force Base auxiliary airfield in Shuqualak, a wooded area about 10 miles from the Alabama line, said 2nd Lt. Craig Rasley, a base spokesman. Air Force investigators are probing the cause of the crash, Rasley said. Jets?? Max nix, glad everyone got back to the bar! Cheers! M2 p.s. I now see they corrected the article. Good on 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcola Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Jets?? Technically speaking, the T6 has a jet engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torch169 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Yeah, technically a jet engine... If I had to guess...belly-up at VFR entry? Maybe I'll watch Fox News to hear about a Democratic party sabotage plan hatched from deep inside the Mississippi woods. Either way, it's good to hear they punched and are good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Herk CP Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I was a Tweet guy at CBM, so pardon my ignorance. Just wondering if the T-6 has TCAS or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Technically speaking, the T6 has a jet engine. Yes, it is powered by a jet engine and it does drink jet fuel, but I would not call a Herk a jet. Nor a T-6 for that matter. Good to see all four got out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitman Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I was a Tweet guy at CBM, so pardon my ignorance. Just wondering if the T-6 has TCAS or not? AF was too broke for TCAS originally so settled for the Navy's "premier collision avoidance system", NACWS. From what I understand the AF is slowly swapping out the NACWS for TCAS but I don't think all the Texans are TCAS equipped just yet. FWIW, BF Goodrich makes NACWS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robes Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 No formation at the Shy... I would agree that it VFR entry is the likely culprit. If I remember correct, VFR entry was really close to outside downwind and not very well defined... at CBM you went to 6 DME max in the turn but the Shy was always "just make it happen" plus there was no low breakout. Glad everyone is safe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerkDerka Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Technically speaking, the T6 has a jet engine. A jet engine that uses it's power to turn a prop. Don't get caught up in semantics, it'll give you cancer. HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Container STS Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I was a Tweet guy at CBM, so pardon my ignorance. Just wondering if the T-6 has TCAS or not? It has NACWS, which warns you like TCAS. It registers the TXPDr's of A/C squawking based on the 6's antennae, unlike Mode- S which uses a terminal radar feed or on board radar (from my understanding). I came into RADAR and VFR entry many times with another T6 danger-close and it never registered due to how I rx'd the signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Spike Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 It has NACWS, which warns you like TCAS. It registers the TXPDr's of A/C squawking based on the 6's antennae, unlike Mode- S which uses a terminal radar feed or on board radar (from my understanding). I came into RADAR and VFR entry many times with another T6 danger-close and it never registered due to how I rx'd the signal. Mode S uses TIS (traffic information service). It's a datalink to a ground based Mode-S radar beacon sensor that computes the relative location of all traffic (intruders) in proximity to the client aircraft based on the Mode S surveillance data. IIRC, the T-6 has a Mode S transponder also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thefranchise Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 AF was too broke for TCAS originally so settled for the Navy's "premier collision avoidance system", NACWS. From what I understand the AF is slowly swapping out the NACWS for TCAS but I don't think all the Texans are TCAS equipped just yet. FWIW, BF Goodrich makes NACWS New models (780 tails and higher) all have TAS which is basically watterd down TCAS. I havent seen a plane come back from the factory moddded yet from NACWS to TAS. sadly it was probably 2 brand new 100hr birds that crashed in CB since they got the newest T6s before the factory line output was suspended. Vance is sending 3 or 4 planes this week to loan to CB, guess theyll need another spare as well. Glad to hear all 4 are ok; those seats should make nice bar pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 these must be the first T-6 ejections, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mjk5401 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Two words: NACWS SUCKS! Anyone from Columbus have the details? Were they doing formation or were they in the pattern? Were the planes recoverable or did the student pull the handle and both eject because of it? I would have been pissed if I was the IP and it was recoverable, but the student pulled the handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thefranchise Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 these must be the first T-6 ejections, correct? nope. 5th and 6th if i recall correctly. first midair though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thefranchise Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I would have been pissed if I was the IP and it was recoverable, but the student pulled the handle. i could see the writeup now for that sortie... P: Patterns - MOA O: Sortie was graded UNSAT overall due to student failing to analyze situation and applying improper boldface resulting in loss of multi-million dollar aircraft. N: C4006(2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 these must be the first T-6 ejections, correct? Let's see...outside of the one at Randolph on 13 Aug 2000 and the one in Savannah on 3 April 2004...yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stract Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 agreed. NACWS sucks. I flew the T-34, and there were many times when NACWS never responded when it should have (one time we were both belly up turning for initial into an aux field...). Then there were the times when NACWS went off and marked the location of the other aircraft in the incorrect quadrant. Always awesome. Surprised there haven't been more midairs at CC and Pcola, seeing as how the Navy does "alert areas" and it's all see-and-avoid, none of this cube-of-space in a MOA stuff like the AF does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman04 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 NACWS Sucks!!! It is a piece of crap system. I got to fly one of the newer planes with TAS before I finished phase II. It is ten times better. NACWS operates off the PFM concept and only then occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Surprised there haven't been more midairs at CC and Pcola, seeing as how the Navy does "alert areas" and it's all see-and-avoid, none of this cube-of-space in a MOA stuff like the AF does. If only there were this thing called "visual lookout" and this technique called "see and avoid" that could supplant the NACWS as a method of keeping airplanes from having a midair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torch169 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I'm confused about this see and avoid thing... does that mean you actually look outside in a VFR pattern?! Now they tell me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stract Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 If only there were this thing called "visual lookout" and this technique called "see and avoid" that could supplant the NACWS as a method of keeping airplanes from having a midair. my point being (since I already mentioned see-and-avoid, thank you very much) that they throw so many aircraft up into a limited amount of airspace and they're all doing different things (solo stud on a PA ride being the most fun/scary) that it's a wonder someone hasn't hit someone else. If you ever happen to be flying through Pensacola, avoid Alert Area 292 at all costs. Stay down on the coastline and you'll be the safest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergman Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 So at $4.3M per copy (USAF fact sheet pricing there!) that's $8,600,000 down the shitter. If it had been mighty tweet jets playing bumper cars, we'd be looking at $330,000 for BOTH. I wonder how much Tweet maintenance and jet fuel you could pay for with the spare change from just this one mishap. Glad to hear everyone made it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 since they got the newest T6s before the factory line output was suspended. Maybe I missed this story somewhere....why was the line suspended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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