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Correct - overseas long tours do not reset the overseas short tour date.

Sputnik: the answer is "it has not been decided/announced yet". An implementation policy will come out to determine, among other things, a "cutoff" date. However, I'd say it is safe to assume if you are done with a short tour, your credit will stay.

If you got a short tour under the 181+ before it was rescinded will it still count or will they go back retroactively? Trying to determine my need to start hunting up a 365 before it hunts me.

I thought you short tour return date moved to the right based on the # of days TDY... So the guy that did the 365 would still be better off than the guy that did 185.

Can someone please explain the whole "short tour" vs. 365 concept? What I'm reading into it is that during a career, you're prime to accomplish one or the other. If you haven't done one, and you're "high time" you're prime to be non-vol'd. When can one "expect" to be non-vol'd?

True. See AFI 36-2110, Table 3.4. Excerpt: TDY 300 days or more in a consecutive 18 month period OR TDY 548 days in a consecutive 3 year period = Short Tour Credit

Who? answered that pretty thoroughly (much more details than I knew) and I have nothing to add to that part. However, keep in mind the flip side to the coin--the AF's side of the bargain, if you will. Once you're identified as possessing the specific skill level in a specific language, you're on the hook for any must-fill billets (long or short tour, accompanied or unaccompanied, TDY/deployment, or otherwise) that require those skills. Are there any places in the world, where Spanish is the predominant language and where we have a military presence (even a single LNO), to where you DON'T want to be tagged to go (potentially--even likely--on little or no-notice)...? How do you feel about leaving your current airframe/job/community? I've seen it happen. Your current AFSC/functional/commander/career path/personal desires/TOS/anything else won't mean a damn thing if you get tagged. I know several folks with native-speaker levels of fluency in some high-demand languages (including Arabic) who do not test for that exact reason--the risk (likelihood) of being summarily grabbed and sent to a shithole location, all other considerations be damned, is just too great. Be sure the risk is worth it to you for whatever pay amount you can potentially get....

Worked just fine for me last year in OEF; as a single billet there wasn't any oversight. No issues when I took my paid travel voucher to MPF and short tour was awarded on the spot.

Yep found the same source data. Persco is saying that because it was originally a 120, and the ULN changes at the 120 day mark (when my replacement should arrive), then they are treated as separate TDYS. Since the ULN changes overnight, the clock restarts at zero days. Their call to AFPC confirmed this. At least I found our before I extended, but this is something that should be addressed. I go to sleep and wake up in the same deployed place but the counter for a short tour resets because I "volunteered" to stay for consecutive 120s with different ULNs. At least I found our before I extended, but this is something that should be addressed. The man is always looking for a way to keep you down...

In the table referenced by nunya, Row 16 says: (If) Deployed to a hostile fire/imminent danger pay zone any time after 11 Sep 2001 until present... (For) 181 consecutive days or more... (Then) Give Airman credit for a completed short tour and award new ODSD and STRD to equal date of return from TDY. And note 5 from the table says: 5. The only source document to be used to validate OS TDY is a copy of the paid travel voucher for each TDY claimed.

The same WOM was floating around when I did my last deployment in 2008. It was scheduled for 179, but I knew guys getting tagged again inside of 12 months. My replacement was delayed and I was in theater for 200 days. Everything I have ever seen still indicates 181+ is a short tour and will reset your return from overseas date. It worked in my case. Edit: the one trick is to take your paid travel voucher over to MPF to get your overseas return date reset. It doesn't happen automatically.

Yeah - the AFCAM has been atrociously handled. Heard more stories that I ever though possible of dudes convoying and getting hit, then getting their medals denied for what amounts to little more than unspoken standards of documentation needed. In many cases they had their Army unit unofficially present Combat Action Badges with their ARCOMs at their RIP/TOA while the Air Force gave them nothing while trying to get them home a day early so that they wouldn't get short tour credit BSMs are getting awarded like crazy - but when you look back to see how the Bronze Star came to be it's not too out of place. The Bronze Star came around as the Infantryman's Air Medal and was retroactively awarded in 1947 to anyone that received a Combat Infantry/Medical Badge in WWII. So while there are undeserving people taking home some of these from cush rear bases, let's not lose perspective. After all, one of the prime criteria for the policy was the poor quality of life the men lived on the front lines. Personally I worked with a guy who was put in for a BSM by his ship Captain for his work landing the Marines during Kosovo - end result was his BSM was turned down by higher-ups, who then turned around and submitted one for his ship's Captain who hadn't put one in himself. If someone higher up wants one of their people to take home a BSM, it'll happen. Thus we see the BSM as the default leadership end of deployment decoration. Yeah - the best is when CJ1 kicks the dec back based on the rank - then in the same email says that the writeup is inappropriate for that medal and you need to water it down...

I think most who deserve medals generally would shrug their shoulders either way, but still, sometimes the medal process is simply a bunch of BS designed to inflate some people's egos. Take for example my experience in the AOR during my short tour...there were Captains who were getting the mission done daily...flying with Iraqis that barely knew how to fly, writing AFIs for the IqAF...basically putting all the REAL parts and pieces of the IqAF together. The staff has their place, and certainly some of the staff guys deserved their medals, but I knew of several that got BSMs for doing nothing, and the only reason they got BSMs was because of the O-5 rank on their uniform. Take one guy...he spent the year mostly sitting in his office reviewing OPR/EPRs, medal packages and arranging the powerpoint slides for the O-6. I never saw him actively advising an Iraqi, rarely saw him actually on the Iraqi base, and he spent (my guess) 80% of his working time over there in an air conditioned office doing paperwork. Yet he got a BSM automatically, simply because he was an O-5. We had a captain who wrote several regs for the ENTIRE IqAF, helped set up their instrument training program, worked a number of FMS cases, actively flew and advised the Iraqis and did a number of other things that Captains rarely do, and we had to FIGHT to get that guy an MSM. The staff guys kept sending it back wanting to give him an AFCM, but we finally succeeded in getting him an MSM. While I don't think he cared too much, it would have been a nice gesture to just approve the MSM automatically given all he'd done. Instead it was if the staff said "we don't care what he actually did, the bottom line is he's a Captain, which means he gets decoration ______."

In the F-15E world, its only really possible to homestead at Seymour because it has the FTU. A pretty typical career for a Seymour homesteader is Ops at Seymour, FTU instructor, short tour/365 while the fam stays in Goldsboro, then return to SJ for another flying assignment. I'd imagine that flow is similar for Bone dudes wanting to stay in Abeline or some AFSOC types wishing to stay at Hurby.

Is there a non-concurrent amount of overseas TDY days that can add up to a short tour? If so, is there a cumulative timeframe limit for said TDYs?

Wasn't sure the best place to put this but the discussion thread seemed to be the best after using the search function.... Just thought it was worth the discussion--I know not everyone in the Air Force is in the ops world, but take a look at her ribbon stack--not one short tour or any type of deployment ribbon (that I can tell). We're promoting people to 3 stars who have no clue what it is like to actually be where the war is happening. So the Air Force wants me to be a more 'well rounded' officer, so in addition to all my flying, currencies, checkrides, additional duties, TDY's/Deployments, the Air Force also wants me to get a masters degree, complete all my PME in correspondence and then later compete for residence, and oh, if I can learn a language and do 500 hours of community service a year that would be great too. Here's also a link to her bio: http://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=8209 Anyone think this has anything to do with our current administration? I'm just sayin...

What entitlements are associated with a 365 Extended Deployment Household goods move, BAH, Family Sep Allowance, Hardship Duty pay, Imminent Danger pay, member per diem, combat zone tax exclusion, Family per diem, dislocation allowance, OPR/EPR, and short tour credit. Refer to 8106 Message entitled: INDETERMINATE TDY ENTITLEMENTS" ; DTG: 301218Z MAY 06. Questions on JFTR dependent entitlements should be referred to the Base Transportation Management Office (TMO) or base Financial Services Office (FSO). Indeterminate_TDY_Entitlements.pdf

A 365 TDY, is by every other definition, a short tour PCS. Calling it a TDY is crap. Thus my "felony" connotation.

Thanks for the words, everyone. Hopefully it will be comparable to my Diego experience in '03, although that was only around five months. It's nice to get the truth instead of the "365s are great" propaganda out of Airman magazine. For a POD, a 365 is not a good deal 95% of the time, but we're the usual suspects getting hit with them (non-vols). It's just a fact. I won't have the retainability for a follow-on of choice, won't fly afterwards, and might not get to move my family closer to home while I'm gone. The less-than-30 days to get my shit done doesn't help, either. Deferring an outbound assignment for me (twice) until I was hit with this really pisses me off, too. I'd rather have gone to Red Cloud than the Deid, and received 30 days home instead of 15 (if they feel like giving it to me). Enough venting... One other word of advice: check your overseas duty return date. Mine was off by 144 days, and it took my personnel office an hour pouring through their database to realize it. For the LDHD platforms, watch for the 300 days in 18 months rule for a short tour credit. I missed mine by 34 days in 1998. To the Deid in April...

I pretty much got the official word today for me. NO STAFF EXTENSIONS ANYWHERE! My bosses were so confident they could play the nuke card that it left me hanging in the wind until the matches were done. By the time the music was over, I'm left standing as #1 to the Deid for 365. My only hope (if any) is to try to play the short tour credit with the ass-load of TDY I did in AWACS years ago. They didn't update your OSDR date automatically back then, so a lot of us let it slip. On the other hand, they may have already locked on to me and won't be fooled by chaff. Even better, I only have about a month to prepare my family for my leaving, and I have to finish up a lot of nuke crap before I go since no one else knows shit about checklists. If anyone's out there permanent party, I'd really appreciate a PM on what it's really like on the ground out there.

In the 80's he did a short tour at Homestead AFB. I was a SSgt, USAF ATC in the tower. We'd see him running along the flightline and carrying the infamous "brick" from the old school days (this denoted importance in the USAF). One Sunday I was working the day shift and we get a call from Command Post. Evidently we left the rotating beacon on, and Doc saw this as he was running...feverishly calling the CP and having them tell us that it was a waste of USAF resources to have the beacon on one hour after sunrise. It wasn't as though they called and said "Hey tower, you left the beacon on", they had to demean us and make the point that Doc had called and we better comply immediately. As they are on the phone with my flight data troop, I scan the entire base, lo and behold the bomb dump had about 300 huge lights on, the flightline lights were still blazing and the fire department was lit up like Xmas. Now Doc was running along the flightline, so he had to see these lights. I asked the CP if they were advised by him to call the bomb dump, FD and the folks responsible for the ramp lights, to which they replied NO. First thing I did was turn the beacon off, then told the CP to professionally advise the Doc that tower advises the ramp lights, fire department and bomb dump are still lit. As he's running underneath the ramp lamps, shining down on a ramp full of F-4's and F-16's, he puts the brick to his ear, then looks up over his head, and sees the lights......stares at them, in disbelief. He ran the entire length of the flightline towards the tower and never saw those lights, but from afar witnessed the green/white beacon on the tower. Doc had some situational awareness.

To tell you the truth there is no absolute answer to any of these questions. I have seen the AF really screw some people over in my time and I have seen them really bend over backwards to help... I am AD married to traditional AFRC that works for Boeing. I have been at McChord for three years, so to prevent being handed another three year assignment to somewhere else I have volunteered for a short tour with a return to McChord. Not the best option in the world but it gets us back living in the same zip code quicker than any other option. So, here is what I can tell you from my experience.. 1. If you are not married the AF does not care! 2. If you get married after you have PCSed, don't hold your breath thinking they will let you go early... However, I have seen it happen in rare cases. 3. If your Reserve or Guard unit it at or near an AD base you may be in luck... for 3-4 years. 4. Depending on you AFRC unit you may be able to move to another AFRC unit when your spouse PSCs. 5. Good luck!

My wife and I had orders to Germany when she was very pregnant. She would have had to stay behind to have the kid by herself. Turns out my orders were switched to Omaha and we came up here three months early to take advantage of "modern medicine". If they can spot any problems with the kid in utero, it could kill your orders if they won't have treatment available for your child. It could also turn your 2-year long into a short tour. I'm sure you can probably get an extension, but the sympathy vote has dramatically declined in value since OIF. A lot of guys are not around to see their kids born anymore. Good advice from the above posts.

USAF JAGs report to first assignment as 1/LT and after six months pin on 0-3 according to their website (similar to other services AFAIK and certain medical specialities as an incentive to help redress pay disparity with civilian counterparts). So he could have been a Captain by age 24 depending on when his birthday falls (early or late and if he graduated at age 20 or 21). Doing back of envelope math (best case for him): Out of College at age 20 with 3 years of hitting books at law School = 23 (or maybe 24). I suspect he'd have to do some initial JAG work before flight school (best case = 1 year). So that puts him at 24 (or maybe even 25) when he puts on flight school and agree that it's at least 2 years to get to a squadron so now he's already 25 (or 26) before he can even deploy. If he's completed that assignment and now working as a JAG, that would be a pretty short tour to have accured 750 hours in a Viper even counting hours from RTU. So the warning flags to me are how can all this happen by age 26 and being a major select after only 2 years in grade of which most was in training status. That defies belief. If there is a Flying JAG program, first I've heard of it and you'd think the USAF JAG website would make mention of it as it would be a powerful recruiting incentive. Otherwise, it wouldn't be career enhancing as a JAG or a rated pilot to try and do both careers concurrently. I think you might be on to something Mr Bunk. Where is this forum where the real life flying JAG making such claims?

Last year on my short tour to Bagram, for the first time in my career, I held a staff position. We had a weapons clearing barrel next to our TOC close to the flight line at Camp Cunningham. Your quote about "not carrying a weapon" brought back some hilarious (and somewhat sad) observations about USAF troops and weapons handling. Rather than list them all in excruciating detail, just imagine how much beer (I mean sodas) was bought for all of the times I witnessed folks drop their magazines out of M-9's and immediately pull the trigger! I was also on the dreaded Senior NCO e-mail list and got to see all of the daily reports reference "Be On The Lookout for USAF M-16 #34267781B0M998M, last seen at the Falcon Dining Facility......"