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Promotion and PRF Information

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On 6/2/2018 at 9:52 AM, Duck said:

Meh, make fun all you want. I am expecting to get picked up at this point. I am now just curious as to what kind of BS the AF has concocted to “make the spreadsheet green”. As soon as I get word back, I am throwing in a Palace Chase app.

If not, you'll likely be promoted to Major ASAP after transferring into the ANG.  This can depend on the state as some states make all their Captains ROPMA, which I will never understand...talk about fucking your people over.  

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1 hour ago, The_Vandall said:

Wild speculation here, but this is an opportunity for the AF to separate non-deployable and ALC-C coded folks without MEB'ing or re-MEB'ing them.  To separate someone solely based upon their medical status requires an MEB, but it's certainly possible to not promote someone based upon their medical status.  If a service twice non-selects someone, they can then force them to separate through Title 10, Section 632.  Typically, medical status is not directly considered during the promotion board (though it could be indirectly considered if a person's medical status prevents them from deploying).  Just speculation, but the DoD's Universal Retention Policy ("Deploy or Get Out") was released roughly a week before the board results made it to the SecAF (14 Feb and 21 Feb, respectively).

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And they think they are getting sued now from HIV guy.  If the military stops promoting people based on medical status, I could see this going wrong in so many ways, it's not even funny.  And to pick a board that should've been 100% promote to test it out is beyond stupid.  

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5 minutes ago, RJ09 said:

And they think they are getting sued now from HIV guy.  If the military stops promoting people based on medical status, I could see this going wrong in so many ways, it's not even funny.  And to pick a board that should've been 100% promote to test it out is beyond stupid.  

Agreed!  As far as I know though, the military is freely able to discriminate based upon medical status.  For instance, someone with asthma is essentially banned from any potential physically stressful military career (pilot, SOF, TACP, etc).  Again, it's just my wild speculation.  It's just doesn't make much sense as to why an supposedly easy promotion board is being tied up for so long.

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6 minutes ago, The_Vandall said:

Agreed!  As far as I know though, the military is freely able to discriminate based upon medical status.  For instance, someone with asthma is essentially banned from any potential physically stressful military career (pilot, SOF, TACP, etc).  

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To an extent permitted by law, which is why they have experts who adjudicate these matters through the MEB process and not the promotion board process.

The reason it is taking so long is upon review at HAF, it was noticed that someone people who received a P from their commanders probably should not have when their record contained several QFIs that would otherwise make them not qualified to serve in the next higher grade.  Instead of attaching a PRF and/or sending a PRF, commanders just used this "new" process to slip them in.  As such, HAF went through every record to make sure those who were promoted actually "deserved it" based on members' OPRs, medals, TRs, and the OSB.  

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4 minutes ago, RJ09 said:

To an extent permitted by law, which is why they have experts who adjudicate these matters through the MEB process and not the promotion board process.

The reason it is taking so long is upon review at HAF, it was noticed that someone people who received a P from their commanders probably should not have when their record contained several QFIs that would otherwise make them not qualified to serve in the next higher grade.  Instead of attaching a PRF and/or sending a PRF, commanders just used this "new" process to slip them in.  As such, HAF went through every record to make sure those who were promoted actually "deserved it" based on members' OPRs, medals, TRs, and the OSB.  

Whoa!  That's way more info than the Air Force has been offering up.  They've been comms silent on CY17D board.  On AF Portal they're just pushing the blame on OSD for the current reason as to why they're so late on announcing the board results.

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Wild speculation here, but this is an opportunity for the AF to separate non-deployable and ALC-C coded folks without MEB'ing or re-MEB'ing them.  To separate someone solely based upon their medical status requires an MEB, but it's certainly possible to not promote someone based upon their medical status.  If a service twice non-selects someone, they can then force them to separate through Title 10, Section 632.  Typically, medical status is not directly considered during the promotion board (though it could be indirectly considered if a person's medical status prevents them from deploying).  Just speculation, but the DoD's Universal Retention Policy ("Deploy or Get Out") was released roughly a week before the board results made it to the SecAF (14 Feb and 21 Feb, respectively).


That's messed up. There's a process to separate people for medical reasons, the MEB. The promotion board is not the place to separate people for medical reasons.
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4 minutes ago, jazzdude said:

That's messed up. There's a process to separate people for medical reasons, the MEB. The promotion board is not the place to separate people for medical reasons.

Indeed.  It's highly unlikely that it'd happen.  Also, RJ09 above noted that the reason for the board delay was due to some senior raters trying to squeeze people with QFI through the board.

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Were PRFs mandated for people with negative indicators?  Maybe if we're short Majors and the Wing CC says a guy with some marks on his record is deserving of promotion to that grade anyway ... just give him the damn oak leaves.

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50 minutes ago, guineapigfury said:

Were PRFs mandated for people with negative indicators?  Maybe if we're short Majors and the Wing CC says a guy with some marks on his record is deserving of promotion to that grade anyway ... just give him the damn oak leaves.

Yup.  I believe the guidance required PRF narratives in two instances- 1.) if the member was being marked as "Do Not Promote",  and 2.) if the member was being marked as "Promote" and they had negative QFI (UIF, Art 15, etc). 

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Yup.  I believe the guidance required PRF narratives in two instances- 1.) if the member was being marked as "Do Not Promote",  and 2.) if the member was being marked as "Promote" and they had negative QFI (UIF, Art 15, etc). 

Yep. This is the guidance. Talked my Wg/CC into writing me one, but AFPC wouldn’t accept it due to no negative indicators. Ugh.
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Were PRFs mandated for people with negative indicators?  Maybe if we're short Majors and the Wing CC says a guy with some marks on his record is deserving of promotion to that grade anyway ... just give him the damn oak leaves.


Spot on.

Is there a manning issue, or not?

The USAF has a hard time distinguishing between mistakes and crimes.

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Totally unfounded speculation

I am 99.69% certain that promotion boards are not given any access to any aspect of your medical records. Check PRDA for your selection folder, that’s what the board sees, and there is no way your medical records are included.

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I am 99.69% certain that promotion boards are not given any access to any aspect of your medical records. Check PRDA for your selection folder, that’s what the board sees, and there is no way your medical records are included.

 

That would be all well and good, however, they never put out an “as met” package in PRDA. More shady work from this board.

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50 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:


I am 99.69% certain that promotion boards are not given any access to any aspect of your medical records. Check PRDA for your selection folder, that’s what the board sees, and there is no way your medical records are included.

Correct.  The board has no access to medical status.  The board results though, still need to go to through the HAF, SecAF, and OSD filters.  And yup, just wild speculation/conspiracy theory on my part. 

41 minutes ago, B.L said:

That would be all well and good, however, they never put out an “as met” package in PRDA. More shady work from this board.

Indeed.  I've never seen PRDA used as they specify in the promo board PSDM.  I usually don't see my promo board folder uploaded until after the board meets, and they've never posted an "as met" folder in my PRDA. 

Edited by The_Vandall

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11 hours ago, RJ09 said:

The reason it is taking so long is upon review at HAF, it was noticed that someone people who received a P from their commanders probably should not have when their record contained several QFIs that would otherwise make them not qualified to serve in the next higher grade.  Instead of attaching a PRF and/or sending a PRF, commanders just used this "new" process to slip them in.  As such, HAF went through every record to make sure those who were promoted actually "deserved it" based on members' OPRs, medals, TRs, and the OSB.  

Then why the F did the AF give WG/CCs discretion?  Maybe a WG/CC could be in a better place to analyze an individual with negative indicators and make a more informed decision about their potential to perform at the next rank.

I ask again.... just why in hell did we get rid of PRFs if they are going to go though everyone’s records more thoroughly?

Good hell, who is running this clown show?

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Then why the F did the AF give WG/CCs discretion?  Maybe a WG/CC could be in a better place to analyze an individual with negative indicators and make a more informed decision about their potential to perform at the next rank.
I ask again.... just why in hell did we get rid of PRFs if they are going to go though everyone’s records more thoroughly?
Good hell, who is running this clown show?

Not the AF anymore I’m guessing. Seems like this just got the attention of the SECDEF. Great work big blue.

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8 minutes ago, Duck said:


Not the AF anymore I’m guessing. Seems like this just got the attention of the SECDEF. Great work big blue.

That would be absolutely hilarious if this did get Mad Dog’s attention and he un f’s this thing much to the dismay of the HAF, or get to the bottom of all this. 

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Not sure if it is on his radar yet, but that’s the only reason I can think of it getting stopped at the Deputy SecDef level. Not a good look for the AF.

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11 hours ago, flyusaf83 said:

Then why the F did the AF give WG/CCs discretion?  Maybe a WG/CC could be in a better place to analyze an individual with negative indicators and make a more informed decision about their potential to perform at the next rank.

I ask again.... just why in hell did we get rid of PRFs if they are going to go though everyone’s records more thoroughly?

Good hell, who is running this clown show?

Same reason we give them discretion in assigning the DPs and Ps in the first place, then overturn them at the board when someone else, with no personal contact, decides the records don't support what the WG/CC is seeing.

I don't know why we don't just get rid of the DPs and Ps entirely if the board isn't even going to take them into consideration.

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Same reason we give them discretion in assigning the DPs and Ps in the first place, then overturn them at the board when someone else, with no personal contact, decides the records don't support what the WG/CC is seeing.

How do you "overturn" a recommendation?

Quote

I don't know why we don't just get rid of the DPs and Ps entirely if the board isn't even going to take them into consideration.

So because a couple recent O-5 boards had a few guys with a DP get non-selected, the board now doesn't take DPs vs Ps into consideration?

Read my post on this issue from a couple weeks ago--I understand some of the frustration and agree that the promotion process can always use some improvements, but using nonsense to make your point does not add credibility to your argument.

As for what's going on with the recent O-4 board, I have no idea. I think it's poor form to not release some info as to why there is a delay but I bet SRs already know the reason.  The SRs knew well before the official release that there was going to be "100% promotion opportunity to Major" (or whatever they called it).

 

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15 hours ago, flyusaf83 said:

Then why the F did the AF give WG/CCs discretion?  Maybe a WG/CC could be in a better place to analyze an individual with negative indicators and make a more informed decision about their potential to perform at the next rank.

I ask again.... just why in hell did we get rid of PRFs if they are going to go though everyone’s records more thoroughly?

Good hell, who is running this clown show?

That's a very good question.  Never said any of this made any sense.  

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On 6/4/2018 at 5:46 AM, SocialD said:

If not, you'll likely be promoted to Major ASAP after transferring into the ANG.  This can depend on the state as some states make all their Captains ROPMA, which I will never understand...talk about fucking your people over.  

Truth, we'll hire you Duck, captains are almost free to hire in the ANG.

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On 6/4/2018 at 5:27 AM, The_Vandall said:

Wild speculation here, but this is an opportunity for the AF to separate non-deployable and ALC-C coded folks without MEB'ing or re-MEB'ing them.  To separate someone solely based upon their medical status requires an MEB, but it's certainly possible to not promote someone based upon their medical status.  If a service twice non-selects someone, they can then force them to separate through Title 10, Section 632.  Typically, medical status is not directly considered during the promotion board (though it could be indirectly considered if a person's medical status prevents them from deploying).  Just speculation, but the DoD's Universal Retention Policy ("Deploy or Get Out") was released roughly a week before the board results made it to the SecAF (14 Feb and 21 Feb, respectively).

I know how to fight this, if it happens to anyone (and I'm able) post it and I can let the correct people know.

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Did some searching on Air Force Portal and clicked on the promotion section.  If you click on the PDF that lists the promotion increments for Maj it says that the first increment for the 09 Maj group will be 213 folks.  If thats the case then that means the total promoted is ~2343 for the 09 Maj board.  The 08 Maj board only promoted 2096.   

 

 

54992395732__330F8B00-9101-4EB4-B8E3-C03F20F126C5.jpg

Edited by Chromedome

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Did some searching on Air Force Portal and clicked on the promotion section.  If you click on the PDF that lists the promotion increments for Maj it says that the first increment for the 09 Maj group will be 213 folks.  If thats the case then that means the total promoted is ~2343 for the 09 Maj board.  The 08 Maj board only promoted 2096.   
 
 
54992395732__330F8B00-9101-4EB4-B8E3-C03F20F126C5.jpg.e239f338f7c079ebfd59b3a8ddd09ee7.jpg

That’s a good thought, except I don’t think you can draw too many conclusions from that number. The ‘07 guys we’re promoting at a rate of 250ish a month if I remember correctly. Although if that’s the case, I think 2,343 would be damn near 100%.

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