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Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

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1 hour ago, Swizzle said:

UPT production numbers aren't where they publically stated they should be, but they've risen slightly. Don't think the former is the cause (read: luck), maybe just slightly retention influenced however

UAV production #s on the other hand seem to have spiked upwards.  To AFPC a pilot is a pilot is a UAV pilot is a # on a spreadsheet

Ya, unfortunately the UAV pilot product hitting the line was rather sub par. Basic airmanship, decision making etc, their syllabus was already lacking, it was evident they were just pushing people to meet the numbers the last year or two.  I left drones a bit ago, but sub par UPT product seems to be a complaint amongst the instructors in the manned plane b course I am currently in. Hats off to them, they been doing extra work and doing a lot of extra rides to get guys up to standard and passable for a checkride, but it backed up the course and strained resources. Lucky if I get 1 event every 10 days or so. 

Edited by viper154

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3 hours ago, pawnman said:

Is that because everyone eligible to bail already has?

People can’t leave if you never made them in the first place.

Besides, my guess is lower level Bob’s are feeding upper level Bob’s some BS

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Did anyone who signed the bonus in 2014 renegotiate in 2015 to 20 YAS?  Did that cause a delay on any of your payments after the first 5?  This will be my first payment of the "extension" I negotiated in 2015 and I can't shake the feeling that I'm about to get enrolled in the Jelly-of-the-month Club.

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10 hours ago, Homestar said:

Did anyone who signed the bonus in 2014 renegotiate in 2015 to 20 YAS?  Did that cause a delay on any of your payments after the first 5?  This will be my first payment of the "extension" I negotiated in 2015 and I can't shake the feeling that I'm about to get enrolled in the Jelly-of-the-month Club.

Same, and yes I got paid this year.  Late June I received a CMS case email that AFPC was directing DFAS to continue $25K annual payments until 2022 and a couple weeks later I was paid.  

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Did anyone who signed the bonus in 2014 renegotiate in 2015 to 20 YAS?  Did that cause a delay on any of your payments after the first 5?  This will be my first payment of the "extension" I negotiated in 2015 and I can't shake the feeling that I'm about to get enrolled in the Jelly-of-the-month Club.

Nope, but I did just get my separation date approved to depart the AD exactly at 17 years from commissioning. After what I’ve seen from AF “leadership”and personnel management, I couldn’t be more sure of this decision. No retirement, but I’m hoping the AFRC and airlines will appreciate whatever I have to offer them. No bonus is worth the abuse the USAF is dishing out these days.

Dear USAF: Now you can say my morale is pretty darn good.
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Hearing fixed-wing take-rate of 40%...

Is this sustainable?  What are we doing?!?!

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Mid 40s overall with 11R/11F/11M all in the 30s

 

Bomber, rescue, and RPA guys are all loving life with >60.  Wonder why the difference?

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15 minutes ago, brawnie said:

Mid 40s overall with 11R/11F/11M all in the 30s

 

Bomber, rescue, and RPA guys are all loving life with >60.  Wonder why the difference?

Rescue always seems to be high... but bomber and RPA? That’s surprising. RPA in this case is 18 or 11X?

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1 hour ago, brawnie said:

Mid 40s overall with 11R/11F/11M all in the 30s

 

Bomber, rescue, and RPA guys are all loving life with >60.  Wonder why the difference?

Stats are all about manipulation, really. Is it takes/eligibles? If the eligibles in Bombers were mostly not-pilots...there’s your answer. 

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On 9/26/2019 at 4:10 PM, K_O said:

Rescue always seems to be high... but bomber and RPA? That’s surprising. RPA in this case is 18 or 11X?

Not sure, but about a year ago AFPC announced that any 11 that had been in RPAs longer than 5 years was being involuntary recat to 11U. Most those dudes planned on ridding it out to 20. Also, a lot of the initial 18X guys just came up on their commitment and most of those guys/gals were prior E or crossflow that we’re planning on staying to 20. I’m guessing this is affecting the percentages. 

Edited by viper154
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Sorry fellas, as part of my switch over from the Navy to 11M, I’m eligible for the bonus, so I took it. I’m sure I skewed the numbers 😂

In all seriousness, and I admittedly haven’t talked to a lot of tanker dudes yet, but I’ve yet to meet one who took the bonus. 

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38 minutes ago, Bigred said:

Sorry fellas, as part of my switch over from the Navy to 11M, I’m eligible for the bonus, so I took it. I’m sure I skewed the numbers 😂

In all seriousness, and I admittedly haven’t talked to a lot of tanker dudes yet, but I’ve yet to meet one who took the bonus. 

Everyone I know who took the bonus were prior-E’s or Prior-navs... so were committed to 20 anyway.... aka retaining no one 

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Don’t worry guys.  I’m an 11B up for the bonus this upcoming year, and I won’t be taking it.  The guys I know that took it are patches and/or have school aspirations.  So, like always, are guys that were going to stay in regardless.  Or, irregardless if you prefer.

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6 hours ago, brawnie said:

Mid 40s overall with 11R/11F/11M all in the 30s

Let's look at it this way--at least the take rate shouldn't get much worse than the mid-30s! 

- 10% = bottom of the barrel folks; they face prospects staying in than pursuing civilian employment

- 25% = in-res IDE types, and/or folks with other sweet gigs worth staying in a little longer for (USAFA faculty, C-37s in Hawaii, etc.)

-- Note: those selected for IDE likely weren't the top 25% of their year group; just the top 25% those who bothered to stay on AD

Sooo...we'll have somewhat bright and shiny types with neat ideas, but the only folks they'll have to lead will be: (1) old, bottom-dwelling knuckle draggers, (2) competent folks who are in operationally irrelevant assignments (USAFA, etc.), and (3) inexperienced younguns who can't wait to reach the ends of their respective pilot training ADSCs. 

Sounds like a winning formula to me. 

TT

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1 hour ago, BroncoEN said:

Everyone I know who took the bonus were prior-E’s or Prior-navs... so were committed to 20 anyway.... aka retaining no one 

Yup, that’s me. My transfer commitment takes me to right at 21 years so I’d be throwing money away if I didn’t take the bonus. 

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7 minutes ago, TnkrToad said:

(1) old, bottom-dwelling knuckle draggers,

Mongo but pawn in game of life. Mongo smash!

E00C8291-F194-4085-A132-6DDD1D80587C.jpeg

Edited by Bigred
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9 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

Stats are all about manipulation, really. Is it takes/eligibles? If the eligibles in Bombers were mostly not-pilots...there’s your answer. 

Yeah it was takes/eligibles, but the stats I saw were only for 11 series (11B/11U/etc).  I don’t have the numbers handy, but 12 and 18 series were relatively high - ~60-75% - and not as applicable to the rated crisis imo.  

Although I bet their corner of the AF has the exact same problems 11X folks face, those folks do not have the same economic factors - read almost a guaranteed airline job/alternate employment - that allow them to easily transition out of the AF.  Also they are much younger when they make that bonus decision because their commitment only takes them to 6-8 years, which I think means they are less jaded (have never competed for school or seen just how bleak AF opportunities can look past major).

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2 hours ago, brawnie said:

12 and 18 series were relatively high - ~60-75% - and not as applicable to the rated crisis imo.  

Although I bet their corner of the AF has the exact same problems 11X folks face, those folks do not have the same economic factors - read almost a guaranteed airline job/alternate employment - that allow them to easily transition out of the AF.

Also they are much younger when they make that bonus decision because their commitment only takes them to 6-8 years, which I think means they are less jaded (have never competed for school or seen just how bleak AF opportunities can look past major).

That makes a lot of sense... therefore the AF has chosen to not address the economic factors... easier to look the other way. 🤦‍♂️

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Actually, I think these numbers have more to do with the airlines than anything.

Most former RPA dudes in my community don't have the TT or PIC time required to be competitive at a major, so a lot of them are planning on sticking around for that reason alone.  I also know a couple Bone dudes that are in the same boat due to them getting something like 2 hours a month for the past year.  I don't know how the Buff and B-2 dudes do with respect to flying hours, but I bet the Bone dudes alone are enough to skew the numbers. 

Or I could be completely wrong on all this.

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2 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

Actually, I think these numbers have more to do with the airlines than anything.

Most former RPA dudes in my community don't have the TT or PIC time required to be competitive at a major, so a lot of them are planning on sticking around for that reason alone.  I also know a couple Bone dudes that are in the same boat due to them getting something like 2 hours a month for the past year.  I don't know how the Buff and B-2 dudes do with respect to flying hours, but I bet the Bone dudes alone are enough to skew the numbers. 

Or I could be completely wrong on all this.

Planning on sticking around to get a few more hours, or taking the bonus? Taking the bonus because you’re somewhat short on hours and therefore losing the flexibility to punch to a regional if the AF tries something super stupid is a sheepish plan. But that’s one man’s opinion. 

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Really the 11B numbers are the only weird ones.  Everyone else that is immediately eligible for the airlines has a take rate in the 30s or 40s.  

And big AF will continue saying the money doesn’t matter and they won’t budge because “it isn’t fair” to pay people that can make more money a compensatory amount.  Give me a break.

You don’t see the family medicine physician complaining that his Air Force bonus is less than the heart surgeon’s.  Make it competitive based on earning potential or lose out.

Edited by brawnie
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On 9/26/2019 at 10:35 PM, TnkrToad said:

- 25% = in-res IDE types, and/or folks with other sweet gigs worth staying in a little longer for (USAFA faculty, C-37s in Hawaii, etc.)

OSA is bleeding talent like crazy too. Only two guys in my Sq are staying and they wanted (and got) school. Then there are fours Lt Col's just waiting to get 20. Otherwise, had one school select say fuck it and is Palace Fronting. 3 other guys (me included) are Palace Chasing. Not gonna have a single active duty AC in the squadron come March...just co pilots and two IPs.

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Just curious how Tricare has affected the calculus whether to stay in for people you’ve known? Coming into my eligibility year, free medical care to EFMP dependents >> bonus money, but that’s my $0.02.

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OSA is bleeding talent like crazy too. Only two guys in my Sq are staying and they wanted (and got) school. Then there are fours Lt Col's just waiting to get 20. Otherwise, had one school select say  it and is Palace Fronting. 3 other guys (me included) are Palace Chasing. Not gonna have a single active duty AC in the squadron come March...just co pilots and two IPs.


So....I take it they’re not letting heavy MWS folks go to OSA on their second or third flying assignments now?

The number of hours required for prior MWS folks to upgrade to AC in OSA is minimal (at least it was in the C-21, way back when I flew it); how is it possible to have no ACs? Only way I can figure is if nobody’s getting released to OSA assignments.

If the option of going to OSA for a few years to at least briefly get away from the airlift/tanker grind disappears, retention will get even tougher in the heavy MWS communities.

TT





Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

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4 hours ago, MechGov said:

Just curious how Tricare has affected the calculus whether to stay in for people you’ve known? Coming into my eligibility year, free medical care to EFMP dependents >> bonus money, but that’s my $0.02.

Tricare for life is my main concern, but it’s not a binary decision. Stay in - you’ve got it

Get out and end up in an AFRES or ANG AGR billet (easy to do these days) - same as being on AD: same pension, same health coverage. 

Another status in AFRES or ANG: tricare at age 60, other coverage (depending on your job) in the meantime. Many technicians on BCBS swear by it. All the part-timers I know love Tricare Reserve Select - it’s like tricare with a small (compared to ACA) monthly premium. 

Bottom line - unless you’re considering a clean cut, separating with zero ties to AFRES or ANG, you’ll likely have that Tricare in one way or another. Educate yourself on all of this. Fear of the unknown is what keeps a lot of fence-sitters on AD. 

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