Hacker Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 This was in his P-51? No, a Raytheon Premier bizjet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 No, a Raytheon Premier bizjet. I thought you were joking until I saw the picture for myself. At least the P-51 is still in tact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarheadBoom Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Disclaimer: I AM NOT A PILOT, NOR DO I PLAY ONE ON TV. However, I did sleep in a KC-10 last night... Tower gave him a tight left base to Rwy 18, told him to keep it south of 27/09 (you'll have to look at the airfield diagram). Rolled out on final with a departing aircraft out in front of him maybe 2000' down. Started wallowing left and right... After looking at the airfield diagram for OSH with flying the pattern in mind, does anyone else (the heavy folks, not so much the fighter folks) read the above sequence of events and think a missed approach/go-around would've been more appropriate, rather than trying to salvage what sounds like a shit sandwich of an approach, especially in a bizjet? I realize that flying into OSH during Airventure is definitely the time to "bring your A+ game", and be prepared for clearances you wouldn't normally receive anywhere else, but that looks like a pretty restrictive turn to final in a bizjet, especially with traffic on the runway... NOMEX.............ON (B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitman Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Happened right in front of us. Tower gave him a tight left base to Rwy 18, told him to keep it south of 27/09 (you'll have to look at the airfield diagram). Rolled out on final with a departing aircraft out in front of him maybe 2000' down. Started wallowing left and right, stalled, and hit rwy fairly flat. Ground looped off the right side of the strip. At least that's how I remember it. Not cool. Spoo, do you know which third of the runway he was cleared to land on? Looking at the airport diagram, it looks like runway 9/27 is only about 2,000 feet north of R-18. Sounds like he wouldn't have much time to stabilize on final if he was landing on the first part of the runway. Did it look like he overshot the centerline at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpharatz Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Some of the scariest words in aviation "Let's go visual" (not insinuating...I wasn't there...didn't burn..was he out of gas?) ..........."I got vertigo" is right up there too......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJDRVR Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 More money than skill. That would be the first impression, but Roush is well-regarded as a pilot. Thousands of hours of single-pilot jet in the system doesn't automatically make one a great stick, nor does a bunch of P-51 and T-6 time, but taken in whole? Not Thurman Munson by any stretch of the imagination. Jack's done a lot for aviation and has shared his airplanes - I hope he make a quick recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 Spoo, do you know which third of the runway he was cleared to land on? Looking at the airport diagram, it looks like runway 9/27 is only about 2,000 feet north of R-18. Sounds like he wouldn't have much time to stabilize on final if he was landing on the first part of the runway. Did it look like he overshot the centerline at all? You are correct... he had only about 6000' at best to roll wing level, stabilize, land, and stop on rwy 18R. I don't know anything about the Premier's abilities, but it was certainly tight. Even the other guy in the pattern supposedly questioned tower's clearance to Roush. Yes, he overshot. Very fortunate he didn't take out performer's aircraft or people. I wasn't looking when it happened, but went over to the Performers Tent the next day, and looked at the site. He crashed proably about 1000' south of the P-2 intersection, right of 18R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contraildash Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Disclaimer: I AM NOT A PILOT, NOR DO I PLAY ONE ON TV. However, I did sleep in a KC-10 last night... After looking at the airfield diagram for OSH with flying the pattern in mind, does anyone else (the heavy folks, not so much the fighter folks) read the above sequence of events and think a missed approach/go-around would've been more appropriate, rather than trying to salvage what sounds like a shit sandwich of an approach, especially in a bizjet? I realize that flying into OSH during Airventure is definitely the time to "bring your A+ game", and be prepared for clearances you wouldn't normally receive anywhere else, but that looks like a pretty restrictive turn to final in a bizjet, especially with traffic on the runway... Go-arounds are free. Cliche? Yes. True? Yes. -rant on Two weeks ago I butchered an easy approach rather bad, right over the threshold. I should have called my own go, but thankfully the other guy did. We went around to a full stop. What really pissed me off (other than my bad flying) was how the controllers were less than accommodating for us going around. It was eye opening on all accounts, but the fact that ATC was not supportive of our decision to go around really irks me. There was no other traffic at the time in the pattern or landing behind us. Seriously, what would mess their day up more: me going around and giving them 10 minutes of extra work, or crashing on their damn airfield? -rant off Roush undoubtedly was under the same 'must land' pressure that we all experience at one point or another and even more so at Oshkosh. You just have to be a big boy and make the correct call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 (edited) Contraildish, You are implying he didn't attempt to go around. We don't know that. A high steep approach, in idle, and a late decision to go around, coupled with engine spool might have caused his go around to end prematurely. Too bad he didn't demand to land on 36L. Edited July 31, 2010 by Huggyu2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoo Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 (edited) Huggy's right. Immediately following the incident, Roush said he was trying to go around. It was likely an attempt to salvage an overshooting approach and a late decision to go around. Numerous folks who've been given the same pattern/landing instructions usually reply with an "unable" and demand 36 or overflight of 09/27. Glad the only fatalities were the jet and his pride. I mean it's one thing to stall your jet in, but to do it show center at Oshkosh...ouch. EDIT: FWIW, after the a/c came to a stop, I distinctly remember one or both of the engines being at or near full power (at least that's what it sounded like to me) for approx 20-30 sec before he was able to shut 'em off. Edited July 31, 2010 by Spoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contraildash Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 Huggy, that wasn't my intent there. Spoo was a bit better in getting to the point I was trying to make: recognizing a bad setup early on and making the timely decision to go around. You guys both know that decision making is sometimes clouded by the attitude of "I can make this work." There's lot's of external and internal pressures that hamper good decision making. I succumbed to it, I got off lucky and am the better for it. I saw the video of the immediate aftermath, boy were they lucky. Roush is a great guy, I met him a couple times back when I was a FBO line dog. Maybe it was the Premier back then, but I coulda sworn he used to have one of the small Citations. PS You two bastards are lucky to be there...again. I haven't been yet, and missed two great chances to fly up with a buddy in a Cub in years past. Hopefully someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 RUMINT heard yesterday says that Mr Roush may have some more permanent eye damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosuper Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 (edited) Link to pics, not pretty http://www.avweb.com/newspics/galleries/airventure2010/jack-roush-crash/large/02.jpg http://www.avweb.com/newspics/galleries/airventure2010/jack-roush-crash/large/01.jpg Edited August 3, 2010 by Prosuper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagasticks Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 It was certainly a bad approach, both given and performed. Flying into OSH sucks and is always busy, I broke out at Ripon twice last week just trying to fit a Baron into the sequence with some smaller (slower) traffic. They stack everyone 1/2 mile in trail and literally have 3 airplanes on the runway at a time by landing them on 3 different color painted circles. Jack was told to perch abeam the tower and stay inside of 27/9, dude in front on the runway and dude right behind him on downwind. He clearly sounded a bit "rushed" in his clearance readback and #2 to land even querried "is N6JR good with that?", tower replied: "affirmative", #2: "I dont think so. . ". . . . Steep idle, overshooting final, late go-around attempt. I used to maintain his CJ1 and if he hadn't switched to the premier, my opinion is he would have been fine as the CJ has a much more forgiving wing (think hershey-bar tweet wing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contraildash Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Crazy pictures. Could have been way worse, glad they are ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contraildash Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 (edited) ATC tape According to the NTSB, Roush is the one on the radio questioning the clearance. He is out of the hospital, but has permanent vision loss in one eye. He's adamant he'll be back flying again. (props on the attitude!) Edited August 17, 2010 by contraildash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFRESH Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 allow myself to quote myself.... I just listened to that. Sucks that he held out on the go-around. I can see where that would be a tough place to try and go around. But even a worse place to crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitman Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Oshkosh 2011 Bump. Anyone else going? This will be my first time there and I'm looking forward to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jughead Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Oshkosh 2011 Bump. Anyone else going? This will be my first time there and I'm looking forward to it! I'm going--it'll be my second trip, I went two years ago. Socata's 100th Anniversary (I have a TB-20), first time any aircraft manufacturer has made that mark in continuous production, so there are supposed to be some good demos, passes to VIP areas (read: free food/booze), and a good showing of folks I know from the user group. I'm flying up Tue, staying through Sun. I may make a day-trip on Mon (I'll be in Chicago this w/e) if the friends I'm visiting are interested. Are you flying in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitman Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I'm going--it'll be my second trip, I went two years ago. Socata's 100th Anniversary (I have a TB-20), first time any aircraft manufacturer has made that mark in continuous production, so there are supposed to be some good demos, passes to VIP areas (read: free food/booze), and a good showing of folks I know from the user group. I'm flying up Tue, staying through Sun. I may make a day-trip on Mon (I'll be in Chicago this w/e) if the friends I'm visiting are interested. Are you flying in? No firm plans on getting up there but may fly a 172 up if nothing comes together with sharing a ride. I'm looking at leaving as early as this weekend, but need to head back to Wichita Saturday to get ready for my desert vacation on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insubordinate & Churlish Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 For those not in the know... SOS Bros Tent at EAA If you don't have a Facebook account, a quick recap: beer and boobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucky60k Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I won't be bringing my Navion but I'll be there over the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 First time since '02 that I'm missing it. Have a great time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynhigh Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) For those not in the know... SOS Bros Tent at EAA If you don't have a Facebook account, a quick recap: beer and boobs Definitely a good time. EDIT: For any first timers looking for the SOS Bros Beer Tent, just look for the big yellow balloon. Edited July 19, 2011 by flynhigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insubordinate & Churlish Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) A year late (to the day) but better late than never... My friend's dad (sitting on L) restored this F-6 (recon variant of the P-51K) "Lil' Margaret" to the condition it was originally flown in by Lt. Col Clyde East (sitting center). You can see the two camera portholes aft of the roundel. Someone in the audience asked him about Olds, and I got this video of his reply. My favorite part of his whole talk went along these lines, when he was talking about flying in the ETO [paraphrased]: East: "Well I was supposed to be doing recon missions, but I got pretty good at dogfights too, and so I became an ace in good time. Well, the squadron commander got kinda mad at me saying that I should be taking pictures, and dogfighting only after the enemy engaged me." [East put on this scheisster smile and then said] "And wouldn't you know it... for the rest of my time in the war, every German I saw attacked me from 6 o'clock high, with the sun at his back..." to the Colonel Oshkosh is a great place... Edited July 29, 2011 by Port Dog 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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