Air Force Heritage

[Guest ShineR]

Every time you walk into the SQ bar you are experiencing heritage, but that’s for flying squadrons. Sorry to turn it back to the darkside, but I couldn’t resist...

I would like to see some heritage that is NOT of flying origin, however, its greatly lacking. This is the reason for our heritage being "lesser" when compared to the other services. The stories and customs and crazy sh1t that goes on in the flying world is held tightly only within the flying community, no one else seems to care because they don't feel included. Shoeclerks know this and try to supress the original badass sense of the AF eg all of the gay regs that get released and make us run like a cowardly corporation. Either we expand the flying heritage to non-flyers or deal with the problems that come with not sharing.

As for the Navy, they have a different perspective of things. Most semen (hehe) are directly involved with the mission or at least feel directly involved when they are doing boat tours, even those who push paper or cook the meals. When you're on a boat like that, you have to develop a sense of commodore to be effective in getting the mission done. Each person on the boat is essential, or at least that’s what they want you to think, and eventually that’s what everyone does think. Its far different than the poor airman in the administrations sq pushing paper at a non-flying base where they have no sense of military operations for that matter, other than showing their CAC to the civilian gate guard then sticking it in a slot at their desk.

Oh and I almost forgot to mention, there was already a great deal of heritage in place for the Army, Navy and Marines, about 3K years worth. The US Navy/Army heritage was instilled earlier in our experiment of democracy, by generations far better than our own. We are young, flying is young, and heritage takes time to grow. The AF has some goodies already though, and this thread is a great idea to teach some heritage to us youngins.

If you want to engross yourself in heritage, go to the sq bar, drink, and sing. If you don't have a bar, build one, even fund it yourself...everyone will love you for it. In the meantime, cheers

[dmeg130]

Small group of Lts told by the boss to 'make it happen.' And they did.

And that, right there gents, is our real heritage.

From the beginning, we were people who thought differently than the establishment. We thought of better ways of doing things (operationally) and made them happen whether or not it bent the rules. We have always focused getting the mission done while accepting the inherent danger of hurtling through the air in a metal box while getting shot at and shooting back. We tolerate the associated bureaucracy that enables us to do that job, but we do not admire it.

That is the bureacracy that says we must have heritage uniforms and goal cards to know what an Airman is. I say those things undermine the very essence that makes an Airman. I don't want a PT uniform, a reflective belt, hand-washing Nazis, Core Values, Combat Action Medals, AFSO 21, TQM, CBTs, DTS, or ORIs. If there's a job that needs doing, I want to get into my plane and do it. Sorry if I went over my duty day and didn't request a waiver. Sorry if I wasn't current for that event or if the WX was below mins or if that gauge was inoperative the whole time. I did it because somebody was counting on me to do it. And I'll do it again tomorrow.

That, my fellow Airmen, is our heritage. Unfortunately, that doesn't play well with the brass, who want everyone to feel "included" and equally special. I know the names and the dates that form our history. I know Leon Vance's half-severed foot was stuck in the rudder pedals so he couldn't bail out and that Bernard Fisher pulled his buddy into the back seat after landing while under attack. I know there are plenty of dudes who have done amazing stuff that we have never heard about, which is probably a shame. Do I feel a kinship with the Doolittle Raiders, the 8th AF bombers, and the Air Recue Service? A little. Do I feel a kinship with the guy who was facing long odds but did his job anyway, because that's just the way we do things? Absolutely.

I won't speak for everybody, but that's why shoe clerks are held in contempt. I don't feel a sense of loyalty so much to the Air Force, but to the people get the Air Force's job done. If that's too cynical or jaded, so be it. But you can't legislate a sense of heritage and make me feel it.

So if someone wants to know about heritage, go ask a pilot how many times they think they've almost died, and listen closely.

[pirate]

When I was in the Army I was at an formal function with officers from around the globe. I started talking to this Polish officer and he asked if I knew why the pants of the Army dress uniform were a different color than jacket. I told him I did. He said "Good hold on to your heritage, all our traditions were taken away in Sept 1939."

I think there are times the Air Force trys to hard. In it's fight to separate itself from the other branches the Air Force has cherry picked the heritage it wants to keep. Which wouldn't be so bad but they keep changing what they determine is worthy of keeping. My eperiance with other branches is that they don't talk about heritage it's just kind of there. There are traditions that most don't even understand that a practiced today.

The push to be different and the idea that we must somehow make the organization less military is what creates the "af weenie" image. We use terms like warrior but ask a guy to do a simple 1.5 mile run and he acts shocked like you just told him to bring his wife in for 'bukkake night'.

Anyway after I talked to the Polish officer we walked into a bar with a priest and a talking parrot.........

[Guest Red Yeaster]

While on casual, a buddy of mine and I use to take "field trips" to our local museum to look at the planes on a stick. Each had a specific story to tell, along with the other artifacts spread throughout. I realized how much the AF has changed but I still felt a since of heritage preserved in this museum and in the present. Granted our heritage has changed drastically, but it's not always for the worse. Sometimes you have to take a step back and look at what we have and build upon it. The AF is the "baby" service and with time our heritage will develop and grow. After reading this entire topic I feel that most of us are caught up in the present. Take a step back, and go visit your museum. The AF seems to have plenty of them and it can actually be kinda cool! Toolish I know, but it made for a good lunch/afternoon break when we didn't have much to do. As for myself, I'll be at the bar listening to any stories my forefathers would like to share.

[M2]

Anyone who doesn't make an effort to talk to any of the USAF heroes (and I will let you decide who falls in that category) is an idiot. And don't limit yourself to USAF vets, I had the honor to escort USMC flyer and MOH winner James Sweat at the Gathering of Eagles back in 96 and it was a hoot! I can't go into much detail, but I will say that those guys still know how to have a good time and could teach a lot to the current AD folks (myself included!).

I am sure I am not the only old guy on here who remembers Project Warrior...

In February 1982, General Lew Allen, then the Air Force Chief of Staff, formally initiated Project Warrior. Citing what he view as a lost sense of direction among some Air Force personnel and a need to spend more time studying the military profession, General Allen chartered Project Warrior as a "back-to-basics" movement.

Project Warrior has three basic goals:

- To create an environment for all Air Force people to think and plan in warfighting terms

- To identify ways to improve the warfighting spirit and perspective of Air Force people

- To encourage improved understanding of the theory and practice of war with particular emphasis on the contributions of air power and the roles of Air Force people

The Marines did something similar back in the early 90s. Notice no mention of the word 'cyber' or any other similar flatulence.

History is a great thing, especially when it teaches you lessons you don't have to learn the hard way!

Cheers! M2

[Guest Samsdog]

How many people have ever gone out of their way to actually spend time talking to Robin Olds?

I am pround to say I have. Over a few beers in a bar in Pensacola. I'll never forget him pulling out of his wallet the picture of his P-51 he flew in WWII. He went on to say that a friend of his owned that same plane and he still, circa 1997, flew it.

[HerkDerka]

Every time you walk into the SQ bar you are experiencing heritage, but that’s for flying squadrons. I would like to see some heritage that is NOT of flying origin, however, its greatly lacking.

AIR Force. Our heritage is as a flying force. Flying our heritage and it's sad when a ground pounder can't be proud of supporting the flying mission.

HD

[osulax05]

Flying is our heritage and it's sad when a ground pounder can't be proud of supporting the flying mission.

Hells yes... I'd be curious how many mx and support guys from WWII got pissed because the the heritage stemming from WWII wasn't from what they did? I'd be willing to bet none. Everybody seems to take the "we can't get the job done without the support folks" mantra too far; they seem to think that their little piece of the pie is somehow more important than any other person's job and thus are entitled to giving you grief for bothering them (read: make them do some work).

I'm really not trying to bash support folks (too hard anyway) because it is true, flyers rely on them to be able to go out and fly the mission. But just like HerkDerka said, we are the Air Force, not the Personnel force or the Finance Force. That is why our heritage is about flying and if people don't like that they should have joined another service.... oh wait, the Navy's heritage is about driving ships and the Army's/USMC's is about putting boot to ass... no mention of finance or personnel anywhere.

bottomline.... heritage should be about the mission and ours is to fly, fight ant win (not that sovereign, cyberspace stuff).

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Hells yes... I'd be curious how many mx and support guys from WWII got pissed because the the heritage stemming from WWII wasn't from what they did? I'd be willing to bet none.

You are absolutely correct, at least in my experience.

Everytime I have ever been around a reunion of guys like the Flying Tigers, Jolly Greens, A-1/SANDYs, Battle of Britain, Society of CSAR, 8 AF, you name it...the mx guys and the flyers get along as equals. Removed from the rank and structure they all see what they did together as a team effort.

Part of our problem today is that we try too hard to include everyone in the "warrior class" and the reaction is almost always aggressive pushback and condescension from the pilots. The same is true among fighter guys and heavy guys. The same is true among fighter guys and bomber guys. The same is true among different fighter types. The same is true among tac and strat airlift guys.

Some of that is healthy. Some is not.

BL, it all becomes background noise as people grow up and eventually get back together to honor their friends, celebrate their survival and share a common pride in the way they accomplished the mission. There are some valuable lessons there for young guys to observe the way the old timers respect each other as equal members of the team.

[Chuck17]

Nice post.

Chuck

[joe1234]

Hells yes... I'd be curious how many mx and support guys from WWII got pissed because the the heritage stemming from WWII wasn't from what they did? I'd be willing to bet none. Everybody seems to take the "we can't get the job done without the support folks" mantra too far; they seem to think that their little piece of the pie is somehow more important than any other person's job and thus are entitled to giving you grief for bothering them (read: make them do some work).

Well, I'd wager that mx guys have much more pride in heritage than your average mission support guy. When you work 9-4 (2 hour lunch included) with training days every wednesday, you're not exactly sacrificing for the mission. But if you're turning jets 14 hours a day 6-7 days a week, because everyone is counting on you, then it's much more significant.

The way I look at it is, if planes stop flying because you're not working, then the job can't get done without you. I mean, if the Comm squadron took the week off, are we going to be scrambling to replace them? How bout contracting? Med group? Services?

[FireMission]

In one of Walter Boyne's books I remember reading something that talked about Hap Arnold's vision for the Air Force was a military force that always stayed ahead in technology and innovation. I think that continues to be what is driving the USAF (hence cyber command, etc). Unfortunately, we are now also touted as an Air & Space Force, or Aerospace Fighting Force, but our name is still just Air Force.

Next thing you know we'll be known to cadets and everyone else memorizing their warrior knowledge as the Aero-Cyberspace Force, but we'll still be called the USAF. Everything seems so futuristic now. It's almost as though the heritage of the Air Force is, "To infinity and beyond."

[Boxhead]

I think it is all about the mission. All the support folks share that mission with all of us. I think that has been forgotten. The medics, the finance folks, the basketball-hander-outers, whoever, they all have the same mission, to get the USAF's planes in the air so they can do whatever mission they are doing.

When people start to think that their micro level job is their mission instead of the REAL mission that we all do, that is when things break down. Just me though.

(my sociologist side coming out) I think the other branches (no so much the Navy) almost have it easier when it comes to heritage. Simple men are easy to admire. (that is not a bust) The USMC, for example, has historically low entry requirements (remember, "hey go to jail or the USMC")...then they go through basic and AIT, develop that brotherhood and willingness to lay down their lives for God, country and Corps, and viola...all kinda heritage and esprit de corps....they want to hold onto that tie, it defines them as a person and shapes all (well a lot) things about them.

Now, let's look at AF warfighters...we are the back wards branch, the "educated" ones are the front line fighters (OK, except, PJs, JTACs, some cops, etc...) With that, look at the socio-economic backgrounds of your average ground pounder and then of your average pilot. In general, the pilots are white, upper middle class who went to pretty good high schools and colleges. Not a horrible thing, but the point is they have had lives that don't need that kind of validation and don't require someone to force things onto them, as a matter of fact, when USMC style rules are forced on us...you can actually watch the panties get into a bunch. They (we) are used to being at the top of whatever food chain we came up. That comes with a large dose of individualism. It actually surprises me that we (as a group) have as much esprit de corps as we have.

Now before people get all worked up, I know that there are some pretty large generalizations in there. But this is not just my random thoughts, there are plenty of military sociology research papers out there that support the same things.

[FireMission]

... as a matter of fact, when USMC style rules are forced on us...you can actually watch the panties get into a bunch.

I hear ya there. Our squadron commander tried to institute a formal PT program to go along with the fit-to-fight that Jumper was promoting. People whined and griped and bitched about it all the time. Especially when the DO started hunting people down that weren't showing up without a valid excuse. The whole program lasted about 2 months before the DO realized he had more important things to do than hunt down delinquent PT'ers. Most people didn't even show up because of crew rest issues or flight physicals, or being TDY, etc.

Which brings me to the point - I think the reason you won't see USMC rules in an AF flying squadron is because part of our heritage is the chill nature of the flying squadron.

Of course we are ruthless when it comes to making sure that people know their TTPs, flying regs, etc, everything is else is run on a relaxed big boy program. After all, how many times have you wasted days hunting someone down in the squadron and no one had any idea where they were? If it wasn't anything important, no one really cared where that person was. They'd show up eventually. That's what cellphones are for anyways. You'll see them in the squadron bar eventually.

[TacAirCoug]

Back on topic...

Legends like Olds and Yeager are certainly worth their weight in gold in terms of their contribution to the AF's heritage. I'd like to throw another one out there for the trash haulers:

WWII vet and Berlin Airlifter Col Gail Halvorson, A.K.A. the "Candy Bomber," is STILL flying C-54's!

[Guest Rainman A-10]

After all, how many times have you wasted days hunting someone down in the squadron and no one had any idea where they were? If it wasn't anything important, no one really cared where that person was. They'd show up eventually. That's what cellphones are for anyways. You'll see them in the squadron bar eventually.

No shit?

What the hell?

I guess I missed that part.

I'm stupified by this statement. I don't know if I should laugh or be concerned.

I'm not sure the "chill nature of our flying squadrons" would be the first thing I would hold forth as a "proud part of out USAF Heritage."

Ugh.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Trash Hauler.

[HerkDerka]

1) Trash Hauler

2) Trash Hauler

HD

[Guest Rainman A-10]

I was thinking USAF trash haulers...

[busdriver]

Here's some AF heritage for ya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_tay_raid

[capt4fans]

Next thing you know we'll be known to cadets and everyone else memorizing their warrior knowledge as the Aero-Cyberspace Force, but we'll still be called the USAF. Everything seems so futuristic now. It's almost as though the heritage of the Air Force is, "To infinity and beyond."

Don't give the REMF services division something else to change. Next thing you know that will be on our PT Gear!!

Edited May 24, 2007 by capt4fans

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Here's some AF heritage for ya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_tay_raid

Here, here.

The A/C of Apple 01 was a good friend's father (and one of my personal heros). He was one of five people awarded the Air Force Cross for this mission. Unbelievable amount of training and risk involved...pre-NVGs. Awesome mission best heard from the guys directly involved (which can still be done at the Jolly Green reunion).

MC/HC-130s, H-3, HH-53s, A-1s, F-4s, F-105s...awesome. This was true Special Operations with support from specially trained conventional airpower assets.

Unfortunately, Big Blue still fails to recognize the importance of this kind of dedicated training and the neccesity of building this type of joint habitual training relationships with their non-AFSOC assets. Our current war is more about this kind of mission than it is about droning around the AOR hauling iron "in case" someone needs it. This is the best and most efficient direct application of airpower we could possibly have. Unfortunatley, you can't do it without training and building the relationships/trust of all the players...even though some people/units think they can (another discussion).

Anyone interested in flying AFSOC C-130s or Rescue choppers needs to learn about this mission. Anyone outside the SOF/AFSOC community who thinks they can do SOF support really needs to take a look at this mission and see if they think they are ready to go tonight and do something they've never even thought of doing before and it's not something you can just read up on in 3-1. 99% chance is that they're not.

Operation Ivory Coast

[pawnman]

I think we do have a strong heritage, but it gets buried. Reaching back from the Army Air Corps all the way through today, we've done some pretty amazing things as a service. I do think that the bigger part of our problem isn't that we don't have a heritage...it's that we try to manufacture new ones every time some general gets a new idea or wants to leave a mark. That's why the Marines have a sense of camraderie...they DON'T reinvent their heritage every ten years.

We've got plenty of heritage...we just need to stop masking it with a bunch of organizational BS.

[Guest]

Don't know if this has been posted but it was sent to me today. Pretty cool.

NMUSAF

[Mambo]

Very cool Rainman. Neat seeing airplanes I've actually worked on sitting in there.