Navigator to pilot

[Shiner]

Yeah just re-read that actually, haha. That, at least to me, still suggests strats, strats, strats. And as a nav, I have a ton of flying, IFE, combat bullets already. I need that extra space to say that I am good in scheds, SELO, etc too. I guess it boils down to what your commander wants to write. I know my OPR changed drastically, for the better, as it went up the chain. I am afraid that for navs it would become a decision between "send to CFIC ASAP" or "to UPT now!" on your push line. While I will always want UPT more, I don't want to burn ops for upgrade if things fall through. I will ask around though, its got me thinking.

Edit: Grammar! (still sucks)

Edited June 11, 2010 by Shiner

[go_cubbies22]

Yeah just re-read that actually, haha. That, at least to me, still suggests strats, strats, strats. And as a nav, I have a ton of flying, IFE, combat bullets already. I need that extra space to say that I am good in scheds, SELO, etc too. I guess it boils down to what your commander wants to write. I know my OPR changed drastically, for the better, as it went up the chain. I am afraid that for navs it would become a decision between "send to CFIC ASAP" or "to UPT now!" on your push line. While I will always want UPT more, I don't want to burn ops for upgrade if things fall through. I will ask around though, its got me thinking.

Edit: Grammar! (still sucks)

I agree that strats are important, and even if you get picked up for pilot, you'll still need them later down the road. The push for UPT only takes up a little bit of space and it probably will help showing the board your desire to get picked up for pilot. I would say that having a push for CFIC/upgrade is important from your flight commander but you probably don't need it from your SQ/CC since he and the DO are going to be making that decision anyways. I hear ya on burning bridges. A couple of years ago, a guy in my squadron put in a package for UPT and then was about to be sent to upgrade. He told DOT that he didn't want to go to upgrade since he was confident he was going to be picked up (board was still a couple of months away). They gave the upgrade slot to someone else and needless to say, it pissed off a ton of people in the squadron. Luckily for him, he got picked up for UPT.

[cragspider]

You guys mentioned that you all had UPT pushes on your OPR's. I never had a push on my OPR for UPT and I got picked up. I just had on my 215 why I would be a good choice and what I bring from my experiences. I don't see why its not a bad thing to have it, but if you do I would say that you better be the top 2 LT or shit hot at your job. But like everybody else has said, be the best in your job and don't piss people off to try to get what you want.

[pawnman]

a nav,

You are lucky to be in a command that let you get away with applying early. It clearly states in the regs that you must wear you're wings for 2.5 years before applying. In my situation the 2.5 years was enforced and I can see the AF getting tougher on this in the near future. It took me a year to get my wings(pensacola). That left 1.5years(one board) to apply before bumping up against the 5 year lockout. I would not trade the route that I took getting to UPT. The advantage that I have over my peers is almost criminal. You also make a good point about the vulnerability to force shaping. I wish you the best.

The reg is pretty clear...and it doesn't say you need to wait 2.5 years to apply, it says 2.5 years of rated service before attending UPT. For most people, that means submitting a package around the 2 year point, maybe earlier.

[Duster]

5. IAW AFI 36-2205, CSO AND ABM APPLICANTS APPLYING FOR PILOT TRAINING MUST SERVE A FULL 2 1/2 YEARS OF RESPECTIVE RATED DUTY PRIOR TO SUPT CLASS START DATE BUT MAY APPLY WITH JUST 2 YEARS OF RATED DUTY SO LONG AS THEY CAN FULFILL THE 2 1/2 YEARS BY 30 SEPTEMBER 2010. THE 2 1/2 YEARS RATED DUTY REQUIREMENT BEGINS ON THE DAY THE APPLICANT RECEIVED THEIR INITIAL AERONAUTICAL RATING.

Does this reg apply to navs in the guard or reserves?

[Marco]

Thread revival. I'm an alternate at a Guard Rescue unit for both HH-60 pilot and HC-130 Nav. I should find out next month whether or not I'm getting called up. If it does happen, I'm getting the feeling that it's gonna be the Nav spot. I am happy and anxious to do it, if given the chance. Coming from a maintenance background (F-15 Crew Chief) I'm just happy to fly and be part of the crew. My question, though, is this: I turn 29 in February. If called up and sent to P-Cola, does the UPT age 30 limit apply for Guard guys who are already Navs? I just want to see what the current word on the street is, if this can be a workable issue. I really want to fly -60's, and told them that in the interview. However, I also enthusiastically affirmed my willingness to be a Nav when asked that question too. Thanks in advance, and if this has been mentioned before and I missed it in the search-apologies. I just thought this was a unique situation that I'm in. Cheers!

Does this reg apply to navs in the guard or reserves?

[HiFlyer]

Thread revival. I'm an alternate at a Guard Rescue unit for both HH-60 pilot and HC-130 Nav. I should find out next month whether or not I'm getting called up. If it does happen, I'm getting the feeling that it's gonna be the Nav spot. I am happy and anxious to do it, if given the chance. Coming from a maintenance background (F-15 Crew Chief) I'm just happy to fly and be part of the crew. My question, though, is this: I turn 29 in February. If called up and sent to P-Cola, does the UPT age 30 limit apply for Guard guys who are already Navs? I just want to see what the current word on the street is, if this can be a workable issue. I really want to fly -60's, and told them that in the interview. However, I also enthusiastically affirmed my willingness to be a Nav when asked that question too. Thanks in advance, and if this has been mentioned before and I missed it in the search-apologies. I just thought this was a unique situation that I'm in. Cheers!

The technically correct answer is yes, the age 30 rule applies in all cases. However, if your organization is willing to go to bat for you, there are cases of waivers in the past. How far beyond 30 and whether they will waive the age at all are difficult to estimate, as it probably depends on who is supporting it (an O-6 or an O-9?) and how badly they need people/pilots (both the unit and the AF as a whole). Right now, I'd say the probability of an age waiver for UPT is very low for a waiver at age 33 or 34, but in four years, if retention plummets, who can say.

[Marco]

That's along the lines of what I was thinking. Thanks for the reply.

[JakeFSU]

Thread revival. I'm an alternate at a Guard Rescue unit for both HH-60 pilot and HC-130 Nav. I should find out next month whether or not I'm getting called up. If it does happen, I'm getting the feeling that it's gonna be the Nav spot. I am happy and anxious to do it, if given the chance. Coming from a maintenance background (F-15 Crew Chief) I'm just happy to fly and be part of the crew. My question, though, is this: I turn 29 in February. If called up and sent to P-Cola, does the UPT age 30 limit apply for Guard guys who are already Navs? I just want to see what the current word on the street is, if this can be a workable issue. I really want to fly -60's, and told them that in the interview. However, I also enthusiastically affirmed my willingness to be a Nav when asked that question too. Thanks in advance, and if this has been mentioned before and I missed it in the search-apologies. I just thought this was a unique situation that I'm in. Cheers!

I recently was offered a nav slot for an HC-130 unit. They told me they are on the list to getting Jmodels or AMP, and if it happens all the navs that would qualify will get a UPT slot. I am kind of young (25), so I wasn't worried about the age factor and I think this was one of the reasons I was chosen for the nav slot. But to add something to this thread, the board did tell me that as long as I could pass the FC1 and they transitioned before my 35th birthday they would pursue a waiver for me. They were definitely confident that a nav had until 35, but nothing was a guarantee. Eventually I politely declined the opportunity after being selected for two alternate slots in other units.

Got a question for you Marco, you say you will find out in a couple weeks if you are going to be upgraded, how do you know you'll find out soon? I'm just curious...I'm a second alternate at one unit and the first alternate at another. There are 4 primaries ahead of me at one unit and 3 primaries ahead of me at the other. From everything I've read from other alternates getting upgraded, I feel like I have a good chance to get upgraded. I mean one of those 7 primaries has got to move on, DQ, or something, right? I know how it feels to be the alternate too buddy. It is a weird spot, because I don't wish any harm on anyone, but man do I hope one of them decides to do something else. It's especially weird when you interact with the primaries on drill weekends.

[Marco]

Jake,

Thanks for the reply. I'm the first alt for both of the spots I listed. I speak with the folks in the recruiting office on a monthly basis to keep them apprised of my status and to see if the primaries have fallen out. They've been great and know that I'm applying elsewhere and said they should know next month, hence my statement. Best of luck!

[skinny]

I recently was offered a nav slot for an HC-130 unit. They told me they are on the list to getting Jmodels or AMP, and if it happens all the navs that would qualify will get a UPT slot.

Incredibly false. HC-130J's will be keeping Navs on the crew. Nobody just "gets" a UPT slot regardless of the situation regardless of being able to "qualify" for one.

[Guest Mostpeople]

I've also heard the best way to get to UPT is to go enlisted, work as a maintainer for a couple years before you upgrade to pilot so you have some knowledge of the systems.

[brabus]

That's completely false. Maybe someone told you it helps in some guard units to be a member going for a UPT board, but that's where the "help" ends. System knowledge has zero to do with getting into UPT.

[Fuzz]

I've also heard the best way to get to UPT is to go enlisted, work as a maintainer for a couple years before you upgrade to pilot so you have some knowledge of the systems.

I know three guard guys at my base who are all prior E crew chiefs. They worked for several years in their squadrons and networked enough that when the boards rolled around their units went to bat for them. Now they are 2nd Lts and close to being done with UPT.

2 to what Brabus said, anybody can learn the systems well enough to fly the airplane.