And HARM only keeps paper records for 3 years, at least at HRT. If you want records older than that good luck b/c they're gone gone gone. Found that one out the hard way.

STFU nav.

Nav logbook entry: "Rode in back again today..."

Nav entry: dd mmm yyyy, didn't fly the plane again.

And HARM only keeps paper records for 3 years, at least at HRT. If you want records older than that good luck b/c they're gone gone gone. Found that one out the hard way.

No idea on HRT, but when I was handed my flight records at outprocessing (retirement), it has the reports all the way back to (but not including) UPT....

Do NOT trust the HARM office to maintain accurate records. When I went to put everything into LogTen Pro, I found out that a 7 month period from 15 years ago (that included an entire deployment with a ton of flying) was gone. Poof. All the HARM shop could do was shrug their shoulders and say sorry. Fortunately I found an old annual review in a closet with the missing data.

Do NOT trust the HARM office to maintain accurate records. When I went to put everything into LogTen Pro, I found out that a 7 month period from 15 years ago (that included an entire deployment with a ton of flying) was gone. Poof. All the HARM shop could do was shrug their shoulders and say sorry. Fortunately I found an old annual review in a closet with the missing data.

Fly for the AF long enough and it doesn't matter much. After a couple thousand hours we are all marketable regardless of HARM buffoonery.

Fly for the AF long enough and it doesn't matter much. After a couple thousand hours we are all marketable regardless of HARM buffoonery.

Maybe for heavy dudes, but you're average fighter guy getting out around the UPT ADSC complete date is not much beyond the typical mins it seems a lot of airlines are looking for. And that's assuming they've been flying the entire time; good chance you're SOL if you did an ALO tour. Every hour counts, don't let the HARM office fuck you.

Do NOT trust the HARM office to maintain accurate records. When I went to put everything into LogTen Pro, I found out that a 7 month period from 15 years ago (that included an entire deployment with a ton of flying) was gone. Poof. All the HARM shop could do was shrug their shoulders and say sorry. Fortunately I found an old annual review in a closet with the missing data.

troof! i had a friend who had three years missing! i am currently going thru my last 10 yrs, cant wait to get to those 1,000 UPT sorties! 1.3 at a time!

holy shit you ain't joking. I didn't truly understand all the variables in properly filling out a 781 until I upgraded to AC, and it's obvious and apparent neither did the 1 Chucks. I've found some pretty glaring errors in my flight time up to the point I upgraded. NVG time vs night time (the former but not the latter getting logged on a give sortie), NVG time getting logged with Other time, etc. Glad I'm taking the time now to covert my crappy flight records and correct those errors, though it is tedious.

You log half primary and half secondary in the scenario you describe. Your duty position is never CP. You log the duty position listed on the orders. FP, MP, IP or EP.

If I am missing the point of your question, then my apologies.

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Edited June 9, 201411 yr by Herk Driver

Has everyone moved away from the MC designation? Mission Copilot?

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To tell you the truth without looking I don't know but it is probably still in use. I think I mis spoke with the duty position versus flight posit part anyway.

Edit: after a quick glance at a 781, I think duty posit is correct after all.

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Edited June 9, 201411 yr by Herk Driver

Has everyone moved away from the MC designation? Mission Copilot?

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We still use MC. Folks come out if the schoolhouse as FP/MC and have to get 400 hrs before upgrading to MP. So on contact/EP sorties those guys log FP time and on tac sorties they log MC time.

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I created my own excel doc to mimic the actual logbook I keep, which is the Jepp Professional logbook...would be happy to email you a copy.

Cap-10

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Edited June 9, 201411 yr by Cap-10

A few questions:

I'm in the process of building my logbook and was wondering if anyone knew if any AF office maintained flight records past the previous 12 months? My local HARM office said that the AF only kept the last 12 months now but just for the sake of asking is there any main central HARM office with longer records?

I have my yearly FHRs with individual sortie lines, is it necessary to build a log with each sortie annotated or would a summary by type and hours be acceptable? In different aircraft, I was more diligent than at other times keeping records.

Most majors will accept your flying time summary from arms. That being said, several folks I know built a granular logbook from those individual sortie lines at the harm office. It is/was a pain in the ass, but let's you break out the pic type data better.

Btw-that paper copy at the harm office is the only place data older than 12 months exists. If that joint burns down or someone gets shredder happy it's gone forever. Make copies early and often!

your HARM record should have all your data. It's what you review annually for your records review. I recreated my flight log from my HARM record, and in the process found many many errors (that I didn't catch during a records review). It ALWAYS pays to maintain your own flight log.

Most majors will accept your flying time summary from arms. That being said, several folks I know built a granular logbook from those individual sortie lines at the harm office. It is/was a pain in the ass, but let's you break out the pic type data better.

Btw-that paper copy at the harm office is the only place data older than 12 months exists. If that joint burns down or someone gets shredder happy it's gone forever. Make copies early and often!

your HARM record should have all your data. It's what you review annually for your records review. I recreated my flight log from my HARM record, and in the process found many many errors (that I didn't catch during a records review). It ALWAYS pays to maintain your own flight log.

Thanks - as I suspected, our HARM chief is sharp but just to be methodical I had to ask this learned audience.

I am a bit aways from actually putting my app in (going to finish a set of orders then apply) but just to lead the turn, I started on the logbook. I built my own Excel but Logbook Pro 10 was touted as the best by one of the guys in our unit, TR and airline guy. Do most people keep their own spreadsheet or get a logbook program?

I've got Logbook Pro. Works good, lasts long time.

LogTen is great on the Mac side, Logbook Pro works well on the PC side (you appear to be combining the two). The latest version of LogTen is free for the desktop version, but costs if you want to integrate any iOS devices. I do fine with the stand alone desktop version. Makes it very easy to do any combo of hrs a hiring authority may want in a report.

LogTen is great on the Mac side, Logbook Pro works well on the PC side (you appear to be combining the two). The latest version of LogTen is free for the desktop version, but costs if you want to integrate any iOS devices. I do fine with the stand alone desktop version. Makes it very easy to do any combo of hrs a hiring authority may want in a report.

Yep - you are right, I've seen Logbook Pro but will give LogTen a look too

Works good, lasts long time.

Like BQ_Zip's mom.

I built my own excel logbook to mirror the Jeppesen Professional logbook I use.

Sort buttons at the top allow for unlimited sorting possibilities, great for breaking down time by type when filling out airline apps.

Cap-10

LogTen is great on the Mac side, Logbook Pro works well on the PC side (you appear to be combining the two). The latest version of LogTen is free for the desktop version, but costs if you want to integrate any iOS devices. I do fine with the stand alone desktop version. Makes it very easy to do any combo of hrs a hiring authority may want in a report.

The LogTen Pro site says the desktop version is free till 40 hours, then costs $149. The iOS apps cost $29 plus an annual subscription of $49/year. Am I missing something?

looks like they changed their pricing model on Nov 8th. But, I would not trust the website, go to the App Store and see what it's priced at. From what I can see on Coradine's FB page, it will be a one-time purchase and then free upgrades for life. I got it when it was free (immediately after the new version was released), so I guess I'm lucky.